Should I focus on fat loss or strength gain in my training?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by precrime3, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Quick current bio on me:
    Lowest weight this week is 181.8 pounds, average empty weight of around 182.5 for last week (moving average) (82.2-82.6ish) kilos
    Reference: Kento Momota is my height, but weighs 68 KG.
    175 cm/ 5'9

    Basically, I've been on a weight lifting plan/diet for last 70~ days or so and this cycle is going to end pretty soon. I'm thinking ahead and wanting to plan for what's coming up in the future:

    - I'll be spending 3 months in Malaysia, 20 hours a week doing coaching lessons.
    - Pro for fat loss: less harm on joints which should reduce unnecessary stresses on body. PLus I'll look good.
    - Pro for strength gain/maximization: stronger muscles to generate force with, which could be used to protect as well.


    I'm leaning towards optimizing fat loss because as I'm at home I can currently control all my variables. When I go to gym, how I order food, etc. I feel it's easier to do that now, compared to Malaysia where a quarantine might wreck my diet, and then not being sure where I can get food and things like that.
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    1. Weight loss
    2. Speed over short distance
    3. Agility
     
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  3. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    1. ankle, knee, hip, core, and shoulder stability
    2. weight loss
    3. we can argue about that

    1 and 2 can be combined, I also recommend to combine it with static stretching, that should also fit in well and has an positive impact on the strength of the z disks.

    About 3, I'd try to build up some strengths while mostly working on explosiveness. After all, force = acceleration * mass.

    For a training like you're about to go in those conditions, you'll want your body to be as resilient and stable as possible to prevent injuries. 1, 2, and the static stretching are quite obvious for that, working on the maximum strength also has some positive influence on coordination (within a muscle and between muscles, not hand-eye-coordination), which again should help with resilience. More stable z disks add tension, thus stability. In theory, they should also prevent ruptured muscle(s) (fibers). Explosiveness is just essential for Badminton. Don't forget to keep stretching and to keep working on your ankle, knee, hip, core, and shoulder stability.

    My 1 and 2 would be my first focus to prevent injuries, especially when you already start with regular stretching.
     
  4. baddiechan

    baddiechan Regular Member

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    I trained in Malaysia and it was more intense than I anticipated. If you've been doing resistance training for 70 days then I assume you have a solid base of muscle and strength. At your weight, if you have an average amount of bodyfat (~20%+) you can lose fat and add muscle at the same time. It doesn't need to be one or the other.

    That being said, you should prioritise weight loss because your body will be less prone to injury and will be easier moving around.

    1. Endurance/stamina - take up some form of cardio or improve it so you can last your training sessions in Malaysia (start small and work up), it must get your heartrate up
    2. Leg strengthening - muscles and also tendons/ligaments, I recommend checking out kneesovertoesguy for injury prevention exercises
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGybO-bWZ3W6URh42sdMQiw
    3. Continue strength training and eating less calories - Fat loss and muscle gain
    4. Basic footwork and strokes - Not sure about your current level but if you are familiar with basics then things will be a lot easier, otherwise you'll spend time learning again in Malaysia
     
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  5. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    This was something along my thinking. And yeah, am going to start kneesovertoesguy $50/month thing next month to help with that. ALready do balance board stuff for ankles and basic balance so yeah.

    BTW though, since I'm athletic build don't have average amount of body fat. Can't be exact but would say my % is closer to 14%? Regardless I agree that more should be lost.
     
  6. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Yes I think by focusing on #2 you gain #1 indirectly but it pays to also spend time focusing directly on #1 of course. I already do static stretching often and massage gun for warmup before every time i workout or play badminton.

    What are these stable z disks you keep mentioning?
     
  7. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    The z disks are what connects the actin and myosin in each muscle fiber, essentially what holds the muscle. The part always has to take all the force, when they muscle is working and when it's stretched. When you b hold a static stretch for 40 second (not below 30, but more than 40 doesn't help more) - and you do that regularly - those will get stronger. That easily leads to 40 minutes of stretching, if you want to include the entire body.
     
  8. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    This I agree with , also I would guess you are closer to 20-25 bodyfat

    You could with proper eating and training lose fat and gain muscle.
    Maybe not while doing an intense badminton camp though.
     
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  9. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    As I've said before, I KNOW I am not in the 20-25% range as my ab lines are beginning to show which is an indicator of weight closer to 14-16%.

    Regardless, feedback is thankful.
    Not worried about the time, I can make time for this. But can you link studies that show it has to be more than 40 seconds?
     
  10. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    I never said it had to be more than 40 second and it's not a single paper. I have them somewhere on my laptop, but not with me right now.

    I've read more than one paper, so why don't you link a study that's not in line with what I say? I'm happy to learn more.

    The sweet spot between time/effort and usefulness seems to be somewhere between 30 and 40 seconds. Just thinking about it, it kinda makes sense, because you can always push a little further after the first 10 to 20 seconds and sometimes even a bit more after another 10 seconds or so, so you need some time until you can really stretch the muscle... And that's not on a paper, that's just based on experience, but I'm not the only one who feels that way. Do YOU disagree with that?

    Now, that's on the effect on the z disks. I still don't know what's better when going for mobility (as amplitude of movement), but I'd be surprised if static stretching had any advantage over dynamic stretching (which allows for higher amplitude) for that.
     
  11. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    I'm the one trying to learn - not sure why I should be the one having to produce papers disproving your assertions. Just curious about the 40 second mark. I would prefer to rely on stats than personal, possibly anecdotal experiences alone.

    So in summary tho, stretching (static) for 4o seconds would help z disks which would help with stability, taking force, or generating force?
     
  12. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I went back to your other thread where you posted the videos of your game.

    You look strong enough already.

    However, your rallies are very short and your movement is not yet very coordinated. You are very slow at reacting to when the shuttle is hit.

    Partly, your mind is not reacting quickly.
    Secondly, you don’t have a good bounce
    Thirdly, your twisting of the body is slow.

    I would say a far greater priority is to work on bounce and changes of direction as well as reaction speed. You will get more mileage from that.

    Oh yeah and working on getting rid of that panhandle grip
     
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  13. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Going to upload a video from yesterday, I really do think I got rid of the panhandle grip.... of course video doesn't lie so we'll have to see.

    These tie in with agility and swiftness so looks like losing weight is the way to go, even for a doubles player (someone like Yuna Watanabe) weighs around 160 so that's my target.
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    That depends if you feel weight has a greater factor in overcoming those factors I mentioned. I think your body weight is OK and you are probably chasing decreasing returns for the effort you put into losing weight.
     
  15. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Honestly I don't know. But training solo without having a coach that can tell me, at least for rn, I think putting effort into weight loss is the thing I can execute on the best with highest quality.

    Not going to go spend money on blaze pods, and don't really have a consistent partner to feed me for drills. That's my thinking anyways.

    Here's my latest video I mentioned in my last post btw.



    - noticed bad at getting cross smashes
    - taking net shots too low
    - grip doesn't seem pan handle? (Need confirmation)
     
  16. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    To me it seems panhandle.

    BTW, your forehand high serve is illegal - you raise the left foot off the ground just when you hit the shuttle
     
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  17. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Still? Can you give me an exact time stamp? I've practiced my grip a lot over the last few weeks and just dry swung with how I normally swing vs pan handle and don't really think so :/

    And noted, didn't even notice my foot :p
     
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    That’s OK. You don’t agree with a lot of things that I write anyway :)
     
  19. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I think if you recorded more from the right side of the court and not strait from behind you will notice what he’s talking about with the panhandle grip.
     
  20. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Will try this today.

    Just a skeptic in general, it's not anything personal. My normal reaction to anything is to question it first before consideration.

    But I'm having a really hard time diagnosing myself so I may indeed just shell out the $$ for the gripfixer and call it a day :p
     

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