Help please ..How to return short serve.

From what i see Lee Yong dae play when receiving serve, he either try to push the shutter or , put it to the net..~

 

There are only so many ways to attack a serve and there are many factors that determine what's the best for you but in most cases which service return you choose comes down to the relative skills of the players.

 

Something ul need to practice at club night. Stand at the line and practice getting back to the flick and attacking the flick. I was never to sure about the footwork til I asked Paul the badminton coach. His video shows it all and it just needs practice. Quick reactions are necessary.

I use the flat drive a lot. I find its the easiest of all the returns. It all depends what side they serve to. For example, if they serve to your right hand court, I would drive it down the line and vise versa on the left hand court. But you have to be careful because after a while they will read this so mix it up. Also every so often I will drive it at the server, it will either hit him or he will dodge it and his partner will prob miss it.

The important thing no matter what the shot is, is to practice getting on the attack. I used to always almost always 90% play a lift mainly to backhand corner and odd time to forehand corner but it means they can attack immediately. It did work for some points if they were slow but the better opponents get this shot and smash it down. So I now attack 99% of serves lifting the odd one just to mix it up

Hope this helps

(PS, Definately work on mastering all the service returns, this one is the easiest for me but prob least effective but it will catch your opponent out sometimes and they will just miss it cause it goes behind them!! lol)

 

Ur partner needs to be faster, maybe stand half a step closer to backhand side and take the shot overhead. Turns a weak backhand into a forehand with more power and options.

Will def help you win more points

 

I think that although we all strive to be as good as possible at badminton, comparing return technique to that of LYD is a little out of complexion.

 

I don't agree about that footwork. I've never seen anything like that used by professional players when returning a flick serve -- or in other situations, come to think of it.

In that video, Paul makes three chasses in a row, followed by a jump. Three consecutive chasses is an inefficient way of covering distance.

Challenge: find a video that shows a professional player using three consecutive chasses uninterrupted by a change in direction. This challenge may take you a long, long time.

I've also not seen this idea of "tuck your bum backwards, making your forward leg go straight" anywhere else. Certainly it's good to lower your centre of gravity to help push off backwards, but I find the bum-tuck manoeuvre rather odd; when I tried it, it made moving backwards fast almost impossible. Does anyone know of corroborating evidence for this bum-tuck (preferably video footage of a pro player performing the movement)?

The best video I've seen on footwork for the flick serve was Lee Jae Bok's IBBS one. Lee's footwork was totally different: one or two hitches, followed by a jump. Unfortunately, IBBS is dead and the video with it.

Watching the pros, there appear to be several variations in this footwork. It's an interesting topic.

That's 1% too many lifts (well, actually 100% too many, but you know what I mean...).

Lift it if you need to -- perhaps because you were caught off guard, or the serve was especially good. But don't lift it "just to mix it up".

 

With regards to the video of Pauls, I can move to the back with 1 chasse and a jump which takes me to the doubles back service line. So far this movement has worked well for me. I'm no pro & there might be better way of doing it but so far this 1 is working best for me & the only 1 I could find!!

With regards to the lifts on service return, its only really when I can see my opponent rushing it to attack any short net reply and it does work. If I always return with a drop, drive etc attacking, it can be a wee surprise which can catch them out & they have an awkward overhead to hit or a backhand.

Just my 2 cents

 

I second that, I thought the video was fantastic, and ever since i saw it Ive used the footwork and its been perfect. the key was the 1-2 tiny hop/shuffles movements to get you moving, then a nice big jump.

Pauls method is just too slow and doesnt work for me because it doesnt move your feet fast enough, which is key, as its not a centre of gravity issue. It probably ok but if you want to get back and hammer a smash down its just a bit slow.

As for net replies, if i could only ever have 3 Id take

a push straight down the middle at the players.
a tight net return straight in front of the server.
and push down the backhand.

Theres really no reason to ever lift . If you feel like you might need to lift it, just let it drop, its short. (this assumes your actually attacking serves from the line obviously)


EDIT; just rewatched pauls video. its extrememly slow. And Gollum is right about the chasses. 3 is excessive. 2 max to get anywhere on court .

 

I do agree with Gollum-The video Paul showing is good to keep you in good health-not for winning matches.
For me it is a simple chase#shuffle and a big jump for flick serves and succes rates are alarmingly high

 

Thanks Gingerphil. That sounds like really neat advice you've given me. I'll tell my partner that next time.

 

OK guys you've had your say and are perfectly entitled to your opinions.

I'm glad some of you have tried the technique and maybe it didn't work for you. It worked for Phil.

We all have different styles and this is just one style I posted about. The movement was exagerated (which I said on the video) and thankfully some one has picked up the point here because the first movement is to stop moving back by leading with your head.

Secondly, if you want to study movement then you have to study both players of today and the greats of yesteryear. The slight bum push and 3 chasses was a familiar movement of Yang Yang, and by the way, check out Zhao and Kim Moon Soo to name a couple more. Former England International Chris Hunt also used this technique. How many European and UK titles did he win?

Since I am obviously in the company of highly advanced players with this particular topic, then perhaps you need to think back before you had reached the standard you're now playing. My video may have helped you move back faster and in balance rather than leading with your head and literally rushing back, barely able to hit the shuttle, with your bodyweight still travelling towards the back line.

As an advanced coach, I layer information to answer questions sent to me and to continue putting out free information to help players of certain standards improve faster and way beyond the standard they would have reached.

Many of these players do not have coaches, may never reach your standard but love the game just as much as you do. I'm simply trying to be a messenger for them to a degree and to those who have no chance of getting a coach.

Sorry that this technique didn't work for you. The evidence is out there that it works but it doesn't mean it's right for you. I wonder how many of you spent more than half an hour concentrated time on this technique to give it a real go?

Phil had a problem and emailed me having read my post on the subject. From this I created the video and it solved his problem. job done with one happy badminton player!

I watch a huge amout of top class badminton and spend hours with DVD's in slow motion analysing technique. I'm fully aware there are other techniques that work well or even better than this. Perhaps if I'd re-created LJB's video the information would have been more suited to you but I wasn't aiming at highly advanced players initially - just advanced techniques for good players.

So, if you're wanting me to record videos for highly advanced players like you then you tell me what subjects you'd like me to cover and what problems you're currently having. You can either PM me or email me direct at paul@badminton-coach.co.uk

I'm filming again this week and then having some time off before I'll be filming every week or two.

All I can ask is that it would be nice to read feedback about my videos without a real negative bias. After all, techniques work for some and not for others. That's why one-on-one coaching is so important, because it allows the coach to adapt to a player rather than a one size fits all solution which sometimes a video can present.

OK guys, over to you.

To your success

Paul
www.badminton-coach.co.uk

 

Great point Paul, I think you're right in that the technique isn't for everybody, and that perhaps these players who have been playing a long time perhaps will struggle to suddently change their method of movement in a short amount of time. Although we value the opinion of the more experienced players and coaches here I think it sometimes takes less experienced players to understand the views of others and to put across simplicity without any complicated extras.
I think we should focus on the original question, which seems to read about how (where) to put the shuttle in a match, since he asks about it in mens doubles, as apposed to how to move to a flick serve which seems to be a question of its own.

 

I certainly didnt mean to insult or detract from your work. I really do appreciate your experience and excellent coaching ( i really liked and learned the line of flight video for cutting off nets for example )
And im very very far removed from the excellent player you describe. I apologise for coming across too offensive and heavy, thats wasnt my intention.

That said, I would still politely advocate Lees method for any level of player, why not teach the faster method at the beginning and it can be practiced over time as players improve? In my mind that would be better than having to relearn an ingrained footwork. Of course,thats a moot point if you think that Lee's is slower. i dont think Lee's video is exclusively for highly advanced players and it is not too physically demanding. I used the technique and have many deep flaws in my game, but at least being able to smash back a flick is now a strength.
Anyway, sorry Paul, didnt mean to attack you or make anything personal.

 

Hi again

Thanks for the follow up comments.

I wasn't offended by your comments because I like to hear your opinions.

The important point here is that I made a video with a goal in mind and that technique has worked for many players. I use it and it works for me. I'm 46 now and it takes a very good flick serve to catch me out. I'm also a bit of a shorty at 5ft 6 so it's a lot easier to flick me than say, a guy at 6ft+.

The important aspect of a technique you haven't perhaps tried before is that you're not going to master it in a few attempts. If you're already really quick then a new technique is not going to be as fast as the one you're used to. Or should I say, it's rare to pick up a new technique and get a better result immediately.

The video was created to emphasise the first movement because the centre of balance is a key factor in moving and then being able to recover from the movement to regain position.

The footwork element of video was not discussed in detail because it's one of many patterns that can be adopted.

I see some players using crossover patterns which I don't usually teach. But, that doesn't mean I won't try it with a student who is struggling to get to the shuttle in time.

To make a point, the great martial artist, Bruce Lee used to say "absorb what is useful" to paraphrase. By this he meant learn lots of techniques and then use those that suit you best and get the best results for you. And really, when you look back, that's exactly what most of you have done to get where you are today.

In many ways, this sums up my coaching philosophy. Every player is different and therefore as I said earlier, a one-size fits all approach cannot work in a live coaching environment. Both myself and my student have to adapt to whatever situation is presented at the time - just like you do on a badminton court.

I'm very cautious about recording videos for this very reason. In fact, my video series is going to be based around a more fluid interaction to try and create a more personal coaching experience.

In the meantime, please guys, we're all here to learn and I never profess to know-it-all. I come on this site to learn from you too by reading your opinions etc.

Hopefully I'll get a few emails now asking me for other videos and we'll see if we can come up with something really tasty.

To your success.

Paul

 

Paul, no offence meant. I liked the point you mentioned about body balance and how to keep your center of gravity. At least our back bone will thank you!

But the problem here is, you need to be really careful what you teach & say-As an advanced coach, people will see you as a role model and want do everything they way you do-that applies to the foot work you have shown in the video as well.

We tried out 3 chase method in our club and it is a big no no by most because that is much slower than many other methods. I do not like the idea of a beginer or intermediate player practising this method to reach the back court from net. But at the same time, I totally agree with you on the core point-pushing your bum back and moving in a balanced way. And my request is, if you are not mentioning all the methods-show the best one that is suited for the top players. obviously everybodys aim is to reach there!
Once again, thanks for the good work you are doing Paul.
Prince

 

I understand what ur saying but I think what paul is saying, he is giving you the idea of how to do it. I seen the video & to begin with I didnt know how to even go about moving backwards. I found I can do 1 chasse and jump and Im at the back line.

I took the idea that Paul gave (the way of the footwork and chasseing wit a jump and found I dont need 3 steps to get back. I only need 1 with a jump.

Like all new techniques I found it hard at the start to get the timing of the jump & I'm still perfecting it but it takes a good flick to catch me out!! I can smash down most flicks

With regards to retuning short serve, its all about keeping on the attack and trying to hit it down or if this isn't possible, flat. Avoid lifting if possible

 

Paul,

You have to bear in mind that this is an open discussion forum, and you will inevitably receive criticism for your coaching advice. As long as the criticism remains respectful, and is directed at the content of the advice and not the person giving it, you have no reason to feel aggrieved.

Sometimes this criticism will be right; sometimes it will be wrong; and sometimes, it's a matter of perspective.

In this case, I don't consider the criticism to have a "negative bias". People are simply saying what they think.

Personally, I have a good deal of respect for your ideas and experience. I'm interested in what you have to say. But when I disagree with advice that you're giving, I'm going to say so, for two reasons:

• To help people see an alternative view (mine)
• Because the ensuing discussion may help me to understand the subject better

I agree, and that's what I teach. I've had no trouble using this method with players right from the start; it seems to work very well.

Of course, if someone is moving backwards completely out of balance, then that needs to be dealt with too. I find it's usually an issue of their standing too upright and having too narrow a base.

 

The bread 'n' butter return to a decent short serve is a mid-court push either down the trams or back through (literally through if you can!) the server.