The biggest loser in the Athens Olympics

Discussion in 'Olympics ATHENS 2004' started by Lau Kok Wei, Aug 23, 2004.

  1. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    Biggest loser?

    I would say people who missed good matches are all losers.....especially in the US, NBC has little respect to badminton. They cut and cancel badminton programs very frequently, they don't show you a replay when there is a commercial, and They only show the US team at earlier rounds, which is less exciting than other players.

    So, people in the US do have a hard time on watching badminton matches on TV, the coverage is small, the quality isn't great, and even the commentators are annoying sometimes.

    Hope they could improve some........if that would ever happen
     
  2. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    To the fans, yeah, we paid the ticket, we want to see the best. Is that possible everytime? No...

    Let me ask you the same question, if you are not just a fan, but the player. Would you give out your best to beat other players to capture the honor for ur team/nation, or you want to use all ur energy on ur fellow teammates, and further limit the chances for both ppl in next round? :confused:
     
  3. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    1. If you agree to enter a "system" (i.e. agree to take turns when it counts), you should apply your word when it counts. If you don't like the idea at all, say "NO" before join the team. Not like say "yeah" all the time, when you receive the favor, but suddenly acting like "being honest" or "respect sportsmanship" when you have to give up something...

    2. It's the players hardwork result into "better chance". Not the "better chance" make a "joe club" type of players like me to be good enough to win WC.

    3. Damn, do I have to repeat all my debates in "CHN strategy" thread(s) again???
    3.1 More rest? I can counter argue say, player A got 3 tougher opponents in earlier round, but player B got 3 weaker opponents in earlier round, so, when A plays B is not fair???
    3.2 Want your tickets worth? Let's sue pay-per-view for boxing matches. We pay $30 looking forward for 12 round close match, but so many of them ended in 2 rounds with KO... Maybe I should ask for $25 refund???
    3.3 Same as 3.2, if NBA games, a team leads by 30 points, you will see all rookie vs bench for the next 20 min or so. But where are my favorite all stars? Where are the last second buzzer beaters??? Well, too bad...

    Ok, ok, I don't want to repeat all my old "stories"... :cool:
     
  4. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    In baseball, there's "sacrifice fly" and "sacrifice bunt" as a very useful and widely used strategy. Perfectly legal and useful when you are desprated for a run.

    If a "true" sportsman like you in this situation, what you do? Be man enough to "let me take every swing for a Home Run"??? Plz...

    In other sports, like gymnastics, cycling, racing, diving, etc, there's strategy of "sacrifice lead", means teammates take the "un-necessary" lead in earlier stage(s) / round(s) to bring up extra mental pressure on opponents. Either they will lose their cool to make mistakes, or they will waste their energy when it NOT counts. This way, the team's main player will have better chance to win.

    So, to you, they all shameless ppl, since that's not "sportsmanship". But, are they really not true competitors??? :rolleyes:
     
  5. RealMad

    RealMad Regular Member

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    That's not the same thing and you know it. Baseball sacrifices are for the good of the team, which you're on. So at least you're helping your own cause. If I were to make a smash for placement so that my partner can make the easy kill on the weak return, that's fine and that's much closer to the argument you're making.

    For my team to stand down though before the match even starts however is a different matter altogether. That's why there was such a big stink in F1 when Barichello actually stopped before reaching the finish line to allow Schumacher to pass him for the win. That's just wrong.

    It's even more wrong in badminton where no one else plays the game with national team tactics. Lundgaard & Eriksen are not going to let Paaske & Rasmussen walk by them if they meet in the semis, just because the danish coach thinks that Paaske & Rasmussen would be better in the finals and they could use an easy match beforehand.

    Even the lowliest underdog, so long as they're in the competition, has the right to compete. Otherwise, what's the point?
     
  6. sillybiscuit03

    sillybiscuit03 Regular Member

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    There are two kinds of international competitions, ones that stress individual achievements and ones that stress national achievements. The Summer Olympics competition obviously belongs more to the later. When some one wins the gold in Athens, you are more likely to hear it reported as "Malaysia captures gold", or "Hong Kong wins gold medal" or something like that. In this respect, it is valid, acctually smart for any head coach to maximize his national team's chance to gold. I found it nothing immoral for a head coach to ask members of his team to lose so someone else who has a better chance for gold to move on. I bet this might have happened in the match between Zhang Ning and Zhou Mi in the WS semis. On the other hand, when the gold medal match is between members of the same team, the coach should stay clear of it. This was indeed what happened at the WD final. So LYB was OK on this aspect at this Olympics competition.

    As whether he is a loser or not. He is not. But I fault him on two issues: Firstly, he should have chosen Xia XZ in stead of Chen Hong. LYB underestimated the psychological stress and immense pressure his young men were facing. The pressence of oldie Xia XZ would have helped. Chen Hong has weak mental control, the fact that in both of the 3-sets matches that he won he lost the second game by a wide margin reflects on that. Secondly, he did not prepare Lin Dan well enough for the first match. If you thought Lin Dan deserved some spanking, do it before the competition, not after!
     
  7. libra

    libra Regular Member

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    Agree with you on the first point. In 'team' competitions like olympics it is generally the country that gets the glory... no matter who wins. However when you consider the World Championships, that should be another matter alltogether. So was what LYB doing wrong? Not this time but I think he was wrong at the WC and will continue to be wrong in future competitions.

    I don't quite see why you are putting Chen Hong down? Wasn't he the only chinese MS player to get past the early rounds? And looking at his draw, getting past Kenneth Johanssen and Lee Chong Wei in successive matches is no easy feat. Shon SM has defeated him in their last meeting so perhaps it is his style of play that troubles Chen Hong? Also, don't forget that Shon went on to win the silver medal. Personally I thought Chen Hong did well.
     
  8. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    agreed. If XiaZX was chosen over LD, bao or chen hong, we would never be certain of the outcome either. Everyone love to have a second shot or a replay but that's only happen in video game, a fantasy world. ;) Live & learn from the results and move on.
     
  9. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    My baseball example is more like "why I should sacrifice my own stats? why can't next batter do the fly or bunt"...

    If everyone just think about "me, me, me" or "ok, for the team, but let someone else do it..." or "I like my team, i like myself even more, so, let me keep it win win by let others be 'dumb'", etc... For such above, you know what I am going to say... ;)
     
  10. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I agree. It's not fair to compare the real outcome with the "what if"...

    I am a Xia fan, but I agree that if Xia got selected but under-achieved, then many Chen's fans will start the same argument like, "see, LYB is stupid, he should send Chen instead of Xia..." :rolleyes:
     
  11. pptam

    pptam Regular Member

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    if LYB is the biggest loser, wat about Misbun?? After speaking of the possibility of winning the first gold medal for Malaysia, the badminton team came home empty handed without a single medal who is worse? lyb or misbun?

    I think the biggest "loser" is the head coach for Russia Women Volleyball team.

    I haven't see this demotivator in this games. He scolded his team in front of the camera. He shouted at them during the games. He even yelled at their name those who make mistakes during the games however all of them pretend they never heard him.

    Even the panel members who sat behind him was shaking his head.
    I think this coach is a big "loser."

    You are not motivating your team and also destroy their pride and confidence to play.

    Russia went down to China 3-0.

    The captain for the team get scolded like nobody business....

    I wonder why he still can sustain his job....
     
  12. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    A coach can make or break an athlete. Look what happened to Taufik when Mulyo left the stable... Taufik then was in a slump , and i'm sure as a coach Mulyo did felt bad about it.. when When Coach Mulyo came back and train Taufik.. see what happens?

    Anyway its not fair to say that LYB is a loser.. he played his part as a coach.. same goes to Misbun.. it takes 2 hands to clap. Its the understanding between Player and Coach.
     
  13. Smashguy

    Smashguy Regular Member

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    The biggest loser, IMO, is us, the audience. The regulation only have 8 seeds and force the top player combat in very early stage which not in their top form. In fact, if the final was Taufik vs Lin Dan, it would be very interested and excited. Of course, I'm not the fan of Chinese National Team and I'm glad Taufik defeats Korean but I'd like to see two energic players combat for Gold medal.
     
  14. fishmilk

    fishmilk Regular Member

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    well said and agreed
     
  15. abedeng

    abedeng Regular Member

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    Yeah, that was the only final that was kind of disappointing, Shon was totally at sea. Taufik/Wong CH or Taufik/Gade matchup would have been a better final. What can we say, the draw was unkind to some players, but Taufik and the people of Indonesia still deserved the Gold Medal. Wonder how many Indonesians in Indonesia got to watch that game?
     
  16. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    If we consider what most fans consider the two premier events, md and ms then clearly korea are the massive winners, with an unexpected silver in ms and gold, silver in md.

    In the womens events there is only really two singles players and one doubles pair who are competitive with the chinese. Camilla is gone and unless Hallam can make a big improvement , she is already 29, the future looks bleak for european womens events. So the chinese did well and met expectations, with 2 golds and a silver, although they would have expected the all chinese final in ws. The question is with the lack of competition do these medals really mean as much?

    The mixed event was the one event everyone thought they knew the winners of, surely one of the most shocking results in the olympics was the "unbeatable" kim/ra losing, credit to Denmark. Yes, Zhang/Ling beat the pairs they had to but they had a remarkably easy draw.

    Denmark also are big losers however, their mens doubles pairs, holding the world and ae titles failed to medal and Gade also crashed out, meanwhile Camilla's retirement will sadden all european fans.
     
  17. other

    other Regular Member

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    Of course they still mean as much....I mean its not the CHN player's fault that they got 1,3,4....they still had to beat their opponents, who i'm sure tried hard. They were just better, and therefore shouldn't they deserve the medals?

    it's like saying that there's a lack of compeition in the sailing in the olympics and people like ben ainsile's gold don't mean as much.
     
  18. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    There may be a lack of competetion in sailing, I don't know:)

    Surely not all events are equally competitive. For instance England are no.2/3 in rugby and cricket. There are only 4/5 nations in the chase in these sports and they are relatively minor sports in those countries so do I think that England being no.1 in thsoe sports equates to being no.1 in football or badminton singles, not at all.

    In swimming one guy can have a shot at 8 medals, basically off the same training, stroke etc, the difference in distance betwen 100m, 200m, 400m has little effect. Do I think a swimmer winning 3 golds, 2 silver etc is worth more than 1 gold in badminton,of course not.

    In rowing we always win a gold in the mens, but we pick the discipline we have best chance of winning and put our best rowers in that, one year the fours, another the pairs while the best rowers from other countries may be in the eights.

    Similarly you cannot really compare success in the womens events for china to success in the mens events. In the womens singles there are only 5 (at a stretch) players capable of winning the title , in the doubles the top 4 pairs probably won't lose in year to anyone outside the top four.

    In the mens events anyone of the top 15 players/pairs can win and many world class players don't even make the qualifying for olympics

    I'm not saying it is china's fault or that those players don't deserve every reward or don't work as hard, just that the events aren't as competitive that the chance of success for those players is far higher, and that as a fan or coach you would have an expectation of winning those events.
     
  19. edwin

    edwin Regular Member

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    I wasn't following badminton closely at that time. What happened in Barcelona? How did LYB and Tian Bingyi defeat Chean and Soo bia gamesmanship?
     
  20. abedeng

    abedeng Regular Member

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    They used some gamesmanship and delaying tactics to throw off Cheah/Soo's momentum. At that moment, the Chinese were trailing in the 2nd game after having lost the first.

    Since Cheah/Soo were still young at that time, it affected them much like Jane Hancock's effect on Choong/Lee. Plus being raw meant they did not yet learn energy conservation. In the decider, it was all China.

    Had Cheah/Soo won this, they could have gone on to the final cos their next hurdle at the semis would be Eddy Hartono/Gunawan, with whom they enjoyed a good record. Doesn't matter, the best pair in the world (Professor Park/Kim) would still have won gold anyway.
     

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