Comparing LD vs LCW

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by galaxyduo, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    I agree that LD is more an attacker and LCW a defender.
    that made LD get points easier and more opportunity to control the flow of the game.
    As the defensive minded LCW there ain't that many cheap and quick points for him thus more physically demanding for his style of play.

    LCW always looks tire in the end game.
    he hardly get a few hard smashes for the rubber game.
     
  2. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    Lol? Its quite obvious when you look at Lin Dan's heads up record against Lee Chong Wei.

    Uh, game 1 is always testing water and feeling out the tempo of the game. When do you ever see Game 1 being the most heated game?

    Game 2: Lin Dan wrecked him. Of course you have nothing to say. I haven't seen someone lose that bad in the OG since last time around where Lin Dan also murdered him. 21-12, 21-8?

    Game 3 was close up until Lin Dan turned on god mode.

    As far as Lee Chong Wei beating me with his left hand, i don't doubt it. His foot work is something to look at. But who are you kidding?

    Lin Dan is THE MOST complete MS player there ever has been.
    Lin Dan is the big game player.

    Look at LCW and how he breaks down during all the key moments. A big part of being a professional is being able to bathe in the limelight, and produce in key moments. Something he lacks.
     
  3. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    why ask me?i didnt start this,hehe
    ask someone else,read my quote in the post
     
  4. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    I was just thinking we needed a LCW vs LD thread on this forum. I wonder why this was never brought up before.......
     
  5. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    well
    u are wrong
    there are lots of them
    but usually end up locked due to irrational posting by both player fanboy
     
  6. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    i posted to other thread as well, some of the unforced errors were actually 'forced' by the quality shots by their opponent and also the mutual respect to each other.
     
  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    you should use the tongue in cheek emoticon... if there is one... otherwise it'll confuse some people who don't know how to read between the lines ;)
     
  8. John JY Wong

    John JY Wong Regular Member

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    XtC-604;1956002 & Accordaz both have their points. But I'll reply to XtC's post. :)

    Head-to-head is a not necessarily a good indicator of player form/performance. Some playing styles just "do better" against certain playing styles.

    Experienced players have a "game plan" before they set foot on the court. And I do agree that a lot of players use their first game as a "testing water" game.

    However, looking back at the London Olympics Final, I believe both LD and LCW was NOT "testing water" in the 1st Game. It was clear that LD and later LCW had "problems" with the draft on their left. They changed their tactics accordingly, resulting in an "easy" win for LCW in the 1st Game, LCW giving up on the 2nd Game, and that very close & very exciting 3rd Game.

    No comment. :)

    I would like to correct you: LD and LCW are currently the most complete players on the global badminton circuit. PERHAPS the best the world has ever seen. LD definitely held a big advantage over LCW previously, but LCW has narrowed that gap, probably close it even.

    And it is unrealistic to compare with badminton players from the past, who had different training, conditioning, equipment, rules, etc.

    Every player can "break down" during key moments.

    Like many have commented, LD holds an edge over LCW phychologically. However, if you look at LCW playing against other players, you can see that he does not "break down" during key moments. Against LD, probably yes ... as illustrated when his play went into "passive mode" when LD drew level at 19-19 and then lead 20-19 in the London Olympics Final.

    ----

    Here's looking to the 2013 World Championships and 2014 Asian Games! More exciting badminton matches to come, and looking forward to more LD-vs-LCW match-ups! Peace!
     
  9. Ton-Min-Bad

    Ton-Min-Bad Regular Member

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    As for testing the waters in the 1st game IIRC there were 2 very close line calls against LD (which he didn't question) and 2 net chords in favour of LCW. Combined with some unforced errors due to the draft it seemed as if LD realised luck turned against him and gave up on trying to win the 1st game.
     
    #29 Ton-Min-Bad, Aug 9, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  10. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    if u already answered the question
    why ask?hmm
     
  11. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    Head to head is a very good indicator if you ask me: at their level of play, coaching and behind the scenes work (such as watching tapes of other players) they should be able to create/train for an alternative play style. While yes, the strategies and tactics of each player do play into it, at their level of play its minimal. Look at how Taufik adjusts his playing style against Lin Dan and Peter Gade when he was in his prime. If you're saying that LCW can only play a flat style, then just on that point alone: there's no other way of saying it : He is inferior to Lin Dan.

    As far as testing water goes: i will maintain this point till i die. Testing water isn't necessarily testing the other player's strength and weaknesses, its also testing for things like the draft in the arena or lighting etc.

    Now talking about being complete, let's break it down:
    I believe there are 5 factors:
    1)Attack
    2)Defence
    3)Physical Shape
    4)Mental Strength
    5)Hard to put a name on this one: but if i had to it'd probably be called the X Factor (lame i know, i'll explain)

    1)In attack, i think its undisputed that Lin Dan has a stronger attack. Stronger smash, stronger deception, etc

    2)In defence, i think both players are fairly even, but i'd say LCW's footwork is maybe just a tiny bit better on average, with both players alternating every now and then.

    3)Physical shape, I think both players are even here, both immensely "durable" but strength is a little bit in Lin Dan's favour.

    4)Mental Strength, After losing in Athens 2004, Lin Dan's mental strength has grown tremendously. Grown to a point where he is calm and killer. He knows how to bathe in the limelight and produce when its absolutely necessary.

    5)The X-Factor, This is probably the most important piece: it's that intangible. That way that Lin Dan can just supercharge his speed or slow the game to a crawl. That element of being the world's Super Dan. Just playing against Super Dan has its own aura of fear. Probably more to it than this, but thats all i can put my words on.

    That's why i say Lin Dan and Lin Dan alone so far is the MOST COMPLETE MS player the world has ever seen.
     
  12. Timz :]

    Timz :] Regular Member

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    I just think LCW starts to lose versus anyone once he gets nervous. A good observer would notice that. I still believe consistency encompasses occasional greatness, which is the reason for LCW's rank as number 1. Saying LD can win when he really wants to is BS. He's just one of the few who can keep up his game under immense pressure especially during major events. Others would just fall apart but it doesn't make their skill any less inferior to prevent them from winning.

    Smash wise, I would agree that LD wins here. But connecting it with arm size? That's BS. Seriously if you guys gave more time analyzing their vids then we would have less embarrassing moments here. LD swings differently compared to LCW. Racket head falls deeper after the arcing motion followed by a great degree of fore arm supination then to pronation. FuHai Feng does the same. LCW tends to have a shorter but fast swing which is more essential to most of his shots though affecting his smash power.

    In terms of footwork, LCW tends to take huge steps while for LD it's more of fast steps which are often seen in the rear court area. People who don't judge well would have mistaken LD's minimal movement in court the result of good footwork but he's actually just reaching for the shots thus resulting to passive drives or drops especially on both sides. It also seems that LD relies to much on anticipation thus creating the illusion of easily getting to the shuttle when in fact he actually is already near to start with. A good trait indeed but ineffective against disguised shots. So yes, LCW is more of a reactive type of player IMO. So back to the better hero of footwork, I would say LCW.

    At the end of the day I think it all falls down to Lin Dan's mental toughness. There is only so much one can learn in badminton. You could see most of the top ranked players play almost perfectly in their home countries gaps are quite minimal but this level of play isn't apparent during major events. It's just who plays better under pressure. LD dominates this part.
     
  13. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    I'm talking about overall based on their match history, and not just this one match at the Olympics. If you believe that LCW peaked in the last two years, then even in the last two years, there have been some lopsided matches for LD against LCW, including Thomas Cup in Malaysia in 2010, and last year's Hong Kong SS. LD also has the winning record against LCW in the last two years. However, LCW's only wins against LD in the last two years have been AE and the Japan Open, and both those matches went to 3 sets.

    You can't deny that LD has outplayed LCW over the last two years and is better than LCW in all the sections I outlined.
     
  14. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    I will agree with you here. LD's anticipation is so good, he gets an earlier lead off in his movement, which allows him to get to the shuttle.
     
  15. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    Moderator, we need a smilely for sarcasm.
     
  16. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Depends. If LCW wins, and such a thread is started, it will be locked before LCW fans can fantasise further. If LD wins, and such a thread s started, well, it runs on until LD fans have nothing else to boast...and LCW fans know better to not fan or energise it.
     
  17. drifit

    drifit newbie

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    actually, any thread that been locked is always due to members sarcasm the other members. quoted post with sarcastic manner.

    if i did not recall wrongly, there is a say mentioning about "comparing a person with a person is a dead end".
    "what is so great about 2 gold medals, as M. Phelps has 16 of it"
     

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