OneToughBirdie, Yeah, I hear you about the Corolla. I am narrowing down the choice to Corolla and Yaris. The Prius Plug In is a very nice city car but too much dough. For state-to-state or province-to-province driving, the 2012 Passat TDI's 1,500 km range seems very luring but I don't know its reliability. I heed your advice and will wait out a couple of years to see how Hyundai's new design pans out.
Is that supposed to be good or bad ? Reasonably sure a Passat Bluemotion would have better mileage [and a better car altogether; Civic-Corolla are in Golf range here, Passat more Accord like] ... Think a Focus is pretty European compared to a typical north-american p.o.s like Chrysler [never again]. Wanted to grab you some test magazines but the site has been down for a week already
Saw some buzz on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGB6jidDR3g&feature=relmfu & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwRpMeULD9A&feature=related But probably hardly available in Canada? Also just saw the North American Passat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykdYuC_oRBA vs euro version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsWd3dlemEA&feature=plcp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l-vIIYptQo&feature=plcp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrmQl2Y7DyE&feature=plcp
Price wise, Passat is more than Accord and Camry. You sin too with Chrysler. When our 2 kids were very young, my daughter is 1 year old then, we bought a Chrysler Voyager AWD,, everything except leather seat, at that time Toyota/Honda do not have family van, so we guess Chrysler invented the magic wagin and a 1992 model should not be too bad, Chrylser should have sorted out the kinks. Little does we know, the 6 months my wife took the darn thing 5 times back to the shop, we had failed transmission, CV boot and the kicker was when the steering wheel broke down when my wife was drinving home from work at night in winter. That is, we trade the lemon for a CRV. We had 65K km in the Voyager and Chrysler would not buy back unless we traded for another Chrylser. We took a hit and that it Chrylser for us.
I have been a Toyota 'loyalist' for many many years. Migrating to Canada, I continued looking for Toyota. I wanted a minivan and there was none from Toyota, so waited until the Siena was available and bought one. Later the kids grew and needed a extra car and got a Matrix. I fully agree about their reliability. Trade-in your car for a Toyota (or another brand) for another Toyota, you may not get the better than any other vehicle. My relative had a Chevrolet Venture, bought a year earlier than my Siena. After 7 years the Venture had too many problems and my relative decided that was it. He took to Toyota and the trade in for a Siena, but the trade-in value was a misery. He took the Venture to Honda, got a deal and brought back a Honda Odissey. My relative said the difference of the trade-in price offered at Toyota and Honda was like night and day, so a no-brainer choice. Now the kids are older and decided to have another car instead of the big Siena. Took to the dealer to check the trade-in value - my car was 10 years old, mileage was just under 90K. Believe me, the trade-in price was just $1000 more than what my relative got for his Venture with Honda, but keep in mind the cars when new the Siena cost was about $6000 higher than the Venture. My car is perfect, absolutely no issues, contrary to the Venture. The final straw that made me stop dealing with Toyota was when I saw in the dealership a second-hand Siena, same model and year as mine, only the mileage was higher. The selling price was $17,500 and it was about $11,000 over the trade-in price offered by the dealer. My thoughts now are, if you looking for a car (not trade-in) and wanting to keep it for over 10 years, it would be a good idea to look into Toyota. But if you think about having a car for a few years and trade-in for another, maybe you should look at other models and make - I think the trade-in values for 5 year old cars might be quite similar. Toyota resale value may not be that advantageous, at least from my experience.
Cars are money losing investment, the moment you ink the deal, the car depreciates. Unless a person has lots of cash, keep your options simple when buying cars. I find the more technology there is, potentially more problem to deal with and more it cost to fix after warranty expires. Lexus RX350, fame for reliability, etc. just have a recall with its 2010 model, at 96K km, service (not repair) alone costs >$950. Viver made a good point on resale, dealers are using the black book on trade-in. When I am looking for a 'working' car and based on the high mileage I put in and time I spent on the highway , I only ask for the things I need; cruize, auto, CD, mileage, reliability, noise, resale (not on $$$ return but whether it is easy to sell privately), and Corolla LE fits perfectly. As for our personal car, we opt for the 2005 Camry V6 XLE (every options in), that is the best car we have owned so far and only has 75K km, perfect in its price range, better than Accord on noise (we had 3 Accords). If you google on the 2005 Camry V6 XLE, one poster said 'perfect car', I agree I usually keep my working car based on mileage, not age. If the car clocks >250K km, I 'start' thinking of replacing it. Not that it can't keep going (I never skimp on maintenance), but I wouldn't want to tempt fate as I spend a lot of time on highway on project assignments throughout Alberta and do not want to get caught stranded on the highway and waiting for assistance to come especially in winter blizzard condition. My Corolla has 60% brake pad left but already it went through 1 tire change. We usually avoid trade-in at dealership. We sell the car privately, usually gets more than dealership or just give the car to my kids, but then we have the bargaining power when negotiating a new car. My choice is always first Toyota, then Honda and there are 6 Toyota dealership here. We usually buy car at year-end or when the current model is due for a model change. The car may be out dated design at model change year but you get a better car with hopefully all the kinks sorted out and huge savings. A first year model has growing pains and usually has recall (Ford's Escape, Lexus 350, etc can attest to that). For example, my colleague bought a RAV4 V6 Limited for $42K in 2008. The same model now selling, equipped with GPS, backup camera is selling for $36K GST included. It pays to shop around but don't get emotional and keep your car options simple/realistic, what's the car for (work or personal), how long you plan to keep it, avoid first year model. I keep my 'working car about 5-6 years but my personal car for as long as possible. Most people would see the car in the showroom, talk to the salesman, read the brochures. I do too, but I also check with the insurance company and most importantly, the maintenance department in the dealership too to find out the schedule maintenance cost (e.g. the 96K mark) and basic repair like windshield ( I replace windshield roughly every 3 years, just replaced my Corolla's), head light crack (Lexus RX350 is >$700 each plus installation), tires (19/20 inch is very costly), recall history, maintenance/repair history, etc. and insurance cost. I always say, it takes about 1 hour to close a deal which you have control to walk away to go somewhere else but 5-10 years thereafter dealing with the maintenance department which you are at their mercy.
I'd say sticking to (brand new mid-range saloon) 5 years works best for me, always (well, twice!). It's still a good deal when sold on the second hand market. strictly sticking to Hyundai Elantra, Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla? Honda Civic!
According to me toyota corolla is the best one instead of hyundai elantra. Corolla has the wonderful features and it looks nice than elantra. Thanks for this post. Keep it up.
I read Hyundai has the highest increase in sales in USA and up in Canada too. They must have done someting right, prolly with their revamp design which appeals to the young crowd. Veloster (car of the year), Elantra, Sonata, AQUUS, Genesis are great looking cars. Hyundai sister company KIA vehicle lineup is great looking too. Toyota is getting back her #1 status in the world. I think the name sells, and it stands for quality and reliability, which most people (esp us) do not want ot fart around trying this car or that car for look or what. Cars are second to house when it comes to investing hard earned after tax $$$, unless you hit the lottery then try whatever you want. IMHO, I buy Corolla for one thing - reliability, the peace of mind, confidence and a long history to back up the car. Toyota is boring and bland, even the new Camry is 'ugly' compare to Accord, Altima and Sonata/Genesis. The tail light of the new 2012 Camry is like missing some plastic parts, it looks awkward. Still the name sells..... Unlike Elantra, still 'young' and I would need to see how it stands up 5 and 10 years record or at the 200K km mark. Google on consumer review of the cars to find out. And Hyundai resale pales to Toyota or Honda, that is a fact. And we have excellent relationship with the maintenance at the dealership, so we would be reluctant to move to another car maker, after all, why try something else when for the past 20 years, Honda and Toyota has been great, no complaint. Hyundai AQUUS is a fantastic looking car, feature for feature on par with Lexus LS430 but cost much less, but IMO, the name is Hyundai is more associated with economy cars, that is why Toyota has Lexus, Honda has Acura and Nissan has Infiniti. On reasle, Toyota Highlander resale value is insane. A 2009 V6 Sport model with >80K km asking for as much as $36K plus GST. A brand new 2012 model, we are offered at $41,300 (GST included). Why bother buying used? GM, Ford, you can get for 50%. Chrysler, heck, you can steal the car for nothing and the owner is pleading for you to have mercy and take their misery away. As long as I am still working, my next car is still a Corolla.
On another note, Corolla and Civic are proven reliable is maybe they are not complicated with none of these technology stuff but just economy cars to get the job done. Lexus (upscale cars) have recall problems and terrible resale value after 3 years, is because they have so much technology in them that cause problem later on. Mercedes ML320 when Mercedes first started to make SUV, that model alone sink Mercedes reliability reputation and the resale value of that model is down the drain. Growing up in MAS in a humble environment, I was super happy to own a bicycle and then a Honda plastic 75cc scooter (I paid for myself), to own a top model Camry in MAS as I do now in Canada, I would consider myself the luckiest person there. Can't ask for more now.
OneToughBirdie, Nowadays is harder and harder to get a One Tough Birdie - earlier shuttles seemed to last forever I agree with your comments about buying cars and really great insights. About trading in the old car, let me tell you my experience. Like you, my very first car in Canada was an American Oldsmobile, 2 door and power everything with aluminum wheels and sport tires. Bought if for about $16K, second hand at a dealer - a 2 year old car with 28K mileage, new it cost about $25 - 26K. Drove about 18 months and traded for a van as the kids were growing. Learned from others that Chrysler was a no-no, neither any other American models. The Odissey was much under power in those days. Was excited when the Siena was launched and went to a Chinese dealer. BIG MISTAKE! The jerk told me the car with a mileage of about 40K, would fetch a price of CAD $5000 even though the black book said US$9.500, and you know 15 years ago the USD was supreme . I told the guy to go to a special place... I definitely agree with you here about the points on reliability and maintenance. I am not an expert in cars, but I heard a private mechanic saying that today's cars all are reliable and all are unreliable at the same time. Like you said, the electronics are the kings and there not much you can do. I know a friend who bought a brand new Honda Civic and stalled in the highway before marking the end of the first month. Had the car towed back to the dealer and replaced the electronics (fuzzy intelligent chips controlling the fuel system?) but went down again few days later. My friend requested to have the car replaced but was denied by Honda - they say they were doing what the service rules required and my friend wanted to trade-in the car it would set her back about 20-30%. Like you said, cars are money losing investment...
Super liked what you said about no-nonsense Corolla and Civic! Not exactly a Toyota (except for my pop's evergreen Hi-Lux) or Honda fan. Not a Merc, Maser nor Enzo fan either. Nissan and Lambo are pretty decent imo.
We play plastic here, last forever, those geese are spared of their feathers. I bought 3 tubes 2 years ago and still on my 2nd tube. The way my friends play here, they hit the feathers more than the cock, I go broke playing feathers, those chaps have terrible aim. Back to cars. My 1st car was also Olds, it was an Omega, bought new for $8K, lots of problems with CV boots, leaking oil, etc and sold 2 years later for $2K:crying: Next came Chevy Chevette and Chrysler Voyager in stupid consecutive fashion as if I never learnt, I paid my dues to the economy. I have done my part being a patriot supporting local auto, that was it folks, I sinned enough, bled enough dough and I repented. Reliability, fuel efficiency and maintenance cost on my working car are most important. After those 3 American products, we went Japanese ever since; 2 Nissans, 4 Hondas and 3 Toyotas. The best is still the Camry, equal to the Accord but better when it comes to noise in the highway, for that I say Camry is 100%, Accord is 99% scoring. Accord seats are low and my wife has headache and back pain driving to Vancouver. Camry, no complaint, smooth as silk and quiet. But Accord looks far better, smart looking and sleek. I am just a working stiff here, growing up in MAS, owning a car is like a fantasy, in fact I was lucky to even own a bike than to have to walk or take a bus, we really have nothing growing up. So, give me Camry for life and I am contented
Not surprising Civic is #1 seller for like how many years consecutively in Canada and Corolla the most manufactured car in the world. They are commuters cars for working stiff like me who can't afford to experiment trying different car model for fun. But Hyundai is fast closing in. If Hyundai reliability after 5 - 10 years matches Honda and Toyota, that would be great for competition. Actually one local car expert commented that the Hyundai new Sonota does not look cheap, but look expensive despite the low price. So 'Go baby go, go Hyundai go', arr...change that name, now that name really sounds cheap and low key, needs to juice it up like Acura, Lexus, Infinitti that actually sound sexy and upscale.
One thing to watch out for is the mileage on a brand new car. Should be 10km or less. If it's higher than that...it was probably a demo car or it was at a warehouse and they drove the car back to the dealership.
Quite, Smooth, Fuel Efficient & Reliable Is the 2012 Corolla quieter than the 2012 Civic at 120 km/hr? I need a quite cabin for the long drive between Vancouver and Calgary. There are written reports from the Internet that rumours Toyota will put the CVT into the 2013 Corolla. The wish list for the 2013 Corolla is a 6 speed manual and rear discs as standard. The suspension can be tuned with aftermarket or TRD parts.
These are econo-box commuter cars, not to be confused with luxury cars. IMO, Corolla is quieter than Civic but don't expect too much on the highway, at 120 kph, you are sure to hear road noise and wind noise. Put on Michelin Primary (I use this on my Camry) or Allegra (that is what I use on my Corolla) rubber and it helps. Buying Corolla or Civic, is more for the time proven consideration of reliability, dependability and easy to sell when the time comes to say your goodbye to the car. Add standard 6 speed, rear disc, etc would increase the price of the cars, econo cars arena is ultra competitive and cost most often is what drive sales. TRD sport tuning on a Corolla, by the time you spent those dollars, you might be better of getting a Camry or Accord. Also, private sport tuning, etc, that is as good as you trust that dude to do it, never equal to factory quality, and how about voiding warranty if you let someone fart around with the car. I won't do it, keep it simple and invest those 'upgrade' dollars you plan on spending and your investment may grow than to see them flush down the tube.
