Dear J4ckie: I wonder what you think looking back: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...ae-(-이용대-李龙大-)-Ko-Sung-Hyun-(-고성현-高成铉-)/page4 your post #56 I sometimes wonder if we watched the same match when I read your take on the games & results...
Ant01: I agree that the lack of variation in shots was the demise of Lee/Yoo, not the less-than-stellar play of LYD. As it has been frustratingly evident over the years (not just this tournament), Korean MD players insufficiently use the drop shot to their detriment. JJS was deadly with his dropshots because 1: he used it rarely, and 2 it was a high but tight, a complete contrast to the expected smash. As Morten Frost pointed out, Shin was highly effective with his drop shots, as it exposed the deep defensive position. Korean MD strength is at speed, whether in drives, smashes or defense. They have consistently struggled against teams and tactics that fall outside this box: Setiawan, Boe/Mog (when they are not imploding on their own). How many drop shots (that is choosing to drop when in a position to smash) did Lee/Yoo make? Again, in the unlikely event anyone from Team Korea is reading, please incorporate an emphasis to vary the pace, it has and will lead to greater success, and that without using any more energy or required training!
Well, I really didnt think Yoo and Lee would work out. Looking back is always easy, so I applaud the Korean coaches for seeing what I couldnt...anyone can change their opinion over time, and I had to see Yoo and Lee play to realise why Yoo is a better partner for LYD than KSH. Makes me twice as happy to see Ko and Shin beat them, I really prefer their style of play and their movement. Yoo might be effective, but he looks SO bad at times....that weird panhandle grip he likes to use on his forehand is just weird and would hamper him severely in singles. I just dont like to watch it, technical errors like that bug me
Yes, looking back is easy, but it also wasn't hard to see that Ko wasn't the right partner, and as a few of us on the forum stated (icey-drone comes to mind) in the LYD/KSH thread, that Shin or Yoo would make better partners. You obstinately and flippantly dismissed such suggestions. Yes, Yoo's grip is certainly unorthodox, if not altogether weird. It wouldn't be what I would teach to the kids I coach. (I don't understand it to begin with!) But the grip itself would not be my criteria in determining his suitability in a MD partnership. I would encourage you to seriously consider the input of others before prematurely dismissing them. If they are trying to show you something you don't see, ("I had to see Yoo and Lee play to realise...") then all the more reason to consider their viewpoint. It will make you a stronger player and a wiser person. ps my point is not that you are always wrong - no one rarely is, just to consider others more thoughtfully before bashing!
I dont remember bashing anyone? I mean I admit dismissing those promoting Yoo as a partner, but bashing is a bit strong imo. Also, I dont recall anyone explaining how Yoo would be a better partner with valid points, for example his different relationship with LYD (not being as deferential as Ko), which I believe to be one of the key aspects of why this pair works so much better (Yoo not blaming every error on himself and Lee not making his annoyance so clear after every error). I compliment those who saw it before (not just fanboying), although you gotta keep in mind that those promoting Shin were apparently wrong (according to one commentator who spoke to the team) Please note that I do consider any post I reply to and dont just brush it off as nonsense for some reason (not liking the author or the point he makes).
And they lost again in the final of Asian Games to Ahsan/Setiawan, so unfortunate they lost back to back final of major events
Their loss to Fu/Zhang in the Denmark Open was quite telling. Not that they played badly, but it really shows that China have been doing some homework on the Koreans. It was a very convincing win by the Chinese. LYD/YYS simply had no answer for their fast flat exchanges and Zhang's outstanding defense and midcourt play. Perhaps the win against their compatriots earlier was a sign of how strong the chinese have become. I like the way that Fu has been able to adapt his game plan to suit his new partner and although Zhang does remind me of a younger CY in the way he plays he does possess a slightly different skillset to CY. Zhang has improved massively, far more dominate in the front and midcourt and retains a useful rear court attack and if he is able to sustain this level of play it will be great for the sport and for China. Whilst LYD/YYS are clearly very strong, I always feel they only play with one game plan. They really need to vary the way they play against different opponents a bit more and become more unpredictable. The Koreans will be disappointed with this loss, not just because they lost, but they were really out-played. Will be interesting to see how Korean responds to this new threat in their next encounter.
Congratulations to YYS and LYD for winning the China Open. They played incredible and ofcourse their defence was phenomenal. YYS was in my opinion clearly the stronger and more creative player on court
YYS has been playing really well especially doing so well in the mixed too. He must be in great shape with the fact that he does a lot of LYD's 'donkey work' in the MD.
Yes YYS has really improved and benefited from playing with LYD. He is far stronger in defense now and he is clearly a lot more comfortable and relaxed in defense. I'm a big fan of LYD but I don't think he is quite as consistent and sharp as he once was. By no means bad, but not quite the outstanding LYD that I've seen in the past. YYS is carrying him to some degree, perhaps the pressure of playing with one of Korea's biggest Superstars keeps him on his toes. I remember reading an interview with LYD who said he'd like to do something else other than badminton. I hope LYD hasn't lost his passion and continues give us these entertaining matches.
Yes, truly YYS is the stronger one now. He and Eom in XD managed to beat Xu/Ma to advance all the way to the final, only to lose to Z/Z. All the while doing double duty and playing MD also.
Btw there's a Korean national games every year and this year LYD lost to YYS.....LYD took silver and YYS got gold. Oh and they're different teams because they come from different regions. The match was held like 10minutes from where I live....but unfortunately I couldn't make it... :/ Not sure if this video will play from other countries....but here's a clip of them playing against each other. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmXA-W1XtC0
Look like....kinda. Play like.....what?! A lifetime away from PJBs talent...LYD came close, but his lack of success at WC and OG (after 2008) puts him in a different category as well, imop...
Yeah YYS plays nothing like PJB. PJB was creative and clever in his play. YYS is quite the opposite. He's fast but I wouldn't call him creative or clever. He makes up for some of it by being relentlessly hardworking and playing consistently. I don't think it is quite over for LYD yet, he has put on a bit of weight since 2008 so isn't quite as fast but I think the LYD and YYS combo can still improve if they get the right coach. It's such a shame PJB has gone to coach Japan, otherwise I think he may be the right person to coach LYD and YYS. But on your point about not having won the WC and OG (since 08), I don't think it is right to judge based on these alone. Ko/Shin won the WC, but I certainly wouldn't put them in the same category as PJB/KMS. LCW hasn't won either of them but he is without doubt, one of the best singles players ever.
Well, the poor guy is unfortunately playing in the same era as some other excellent players, like Ahsan/Setiawan, and even Boe/Mo and Fu/Cai of old. And he only just recently in the past yr paired with LYD. Anyways, of all the current KOR men players, he still comes the closest looking and playing style-wise like PJB.
The difference is that while LYD is/was hailed as a prodigial player, he could never really perform on the biggest stages. He and Jung should've won against the Danes in London, and they could've gone further in Beijing as well. They never won a single WC title, and while Cai/Fu are my favorite MD pair, they are not quite the same dominant best-of-all-time force LD is. LCW was constantly overshadowed by the greatest singles player of all time, while LYD didn't have such a shadow cast over him - in fact, he and Jung managed to beat Cai/Fu roughly half the time, just never on a big occasion. A WC win alone doesn't make one an outstanding prodigy to be remembered, but not winning one of the 2 big individual titles certainly is a big point against one. I am not saying that LYD is not a great doubles player - personally, I just don't consider him to be one of the world's greatest of all time like PJB and KDM who won big titles, and with different partners as well I think... To be fair though, it's much harder in doubles to prove your individual worth, as you have to play in sync with your partner to achieve your absolute best. Neither Cai nor Fu are the most complete doubles players I've ever seen, but when they stepped on court together, there were few pairs they had to fear - a big part (in my opinion) of that was their exceptional chemistry. Fu was the best smasher of them all, but he really needed a partner able to capitalise on the openings he created - individually, he would've been a strong player, but not as outstanding, I believe. Weeell but he never was in contention with any of them until he paired up with LYD, before that he was fairly unremarkable. Seems like he is the type of player who need a stronger presence on court with them as a level to rise to - when he was partnered with Ko many (myself included) considered him to be the weaker player, but with LYD he appears to perform better than KSH. Not saying he is a weak player....but as R20190 mentioned, he is not a clever or technically gifted player. His panhandle grip would put him into serious trouble if he were playing singles For me PJB is pretty much just a name, but what I saw of him suggests he was a technically and tactically gifted player. Kim Dong Moon would be another example of a technically and tactically strong player, since he wasn't super impressive physically, but managed to win big titles anyway...that calm look and strong defense are fairly impressive and hint at the technical abilities - while Yoo has a pretty stable defense too, he often looks hurried and awkward because he doesn't have the same anticipation and easy, flexible technique. That sounds so negative. Please keep in mind that I am actually a big fan of this pairing!
