How do powerful smash related to body weight?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by arfandy, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. arfandy

    arfandy Regular Member

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    I've been observing many players on court who can perform very powerful smash. I've come to realize that:

    1. The player with heavier weight (+80kg), short or tall.... are able to perform very powerful "bang" smashes that will give opponent hard time to return nicely.

    2. The players with lighter weight (-70kg), mostly tall and skinny.... are able to produce very fast smash but not powerful enough to make opponent's racket vibrates.

    I know this after watching several tournaments, when many skinny-tall players jumped smashes, it was hard enough to see the shuttlecock (seems like opponents must predict where the shuttle lands, if received, they were easily return with control). But when the big-fat players smashes, the shuttlecock travels quite visible by eyes for those who watching, but somehow the opponents most of the time will return it half-court or out (although they were always able to receive the smashes).

    Of couse, this deduction does not apply for international players or those that received proper daily training.

    Correct me if my deduction is wrong.
     
  2. KWReyes

    KWReyes Regular Member

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    I have no factual basis, but I would suppose that heavier players can produce much more "brute" strength. However, the actual effectiveness of the smash is still more dependent on technique more than anything else. :)


    EDIT: Also, I would suppose larger players are much more intimidating to even just look at, so that might be a factor. :p
     
  3. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    the energy transfer to the shuttle from the racket (and hand) is
    KE = 1/2 (mv^2)

    so if your hand/arm has a greater mass and can still generate the same speed as someone else thinner, then you'll impart greater KE onto the bird ... assuming equal technique, etc of course
     
  4. waterboy

    waterboy Regular Member

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    Really? I've always been quite confused about this since I thought that 2 smashes with the same speed can't have differences in power since the mass stays the same
     
  5. nooooooooooo

    nooooooooooo Regular Member

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    If we are talking about how good a smash is, it is pretty much depending on the speed and placement. Anything else I suspect is just psychological. A skinny player can hit a shuttle just as hard as a muscular one.
     
  6. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    in a way, it's like throwing a rock...

    it's how much body weight transfer (using proximal to distal transfer, core muscle recruitment, etc) and technique (preload stretch, explosiveness, finger power, timing, release, etc) that determines how devastatingly powerful your smash is...

    but of course, power is nothing without control, accuracy, and smart placement
     
  7. captaincook

    captaincook Regular Member

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    think this way -
    a big truck hit something at 10 mph vs a bicycle hit something at 10 mph - which one has more force (kinetic energy) ?

    And all that force is tranferred to a shuttlecock....
     
  8. arfandy

    arfandy Regular Member

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    I've encountered a "powerful smash" and a "high-speed smash". I had more dificulty in control-returning many powerful smashes although i can easily see the trejactory of the shuttlecock but the vibration it causes to the string bed... always make me having harder time to control it back. Meanwhile, a high-speed smashes.... i must instictly pinpoint the trejactory before it is being smashed, but once it landed on my racket.... i can easily control it back wherever i want, also less vibration it causes to the string bed.

    If i were to put the comparison in real life figures, then i'd say bazooka vs ak47 or optimus prime truck vs bumblebee car or sumo vs k1 fighter.
     
  9. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    There is no difference.
     
    DarkHiatus and The challenger like this.
  10. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    What produces speed on a smash is hardly the weight of the player, but the speed of the rackethead. And the ability to swing the racket fast is mostly determined by the technique and very specific wirst/underarm/shoulder/core strength of the player.

    Therefore:
    Weight plays no role.
    Raw strength plays a minor role.
    Technique and very "badminton specific" strength (which is somewhat, but not totally related to general strenth) plays the major role in producing powerful smashes.
     
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^ Weight plays no role?!

    P=MV
    KE=(MV^2)/2
     
  12. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    Why do heavy head rackets and heavier rackets produce a more powerful smash then...
     
  13. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    That's racket(head) weight, obv.

    Bodyweight of the player is not imposed on the shuttle!
     
  14. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    Were talking about bodyweight here!!

    And the weight of the rackethead transfers linearly into the impulse of the shuttle, whereas speed is squared!
     
  15. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Er...they don't. :p

    The player may produce a more powerful smash with these rackets. Or not. It depends on the player.

    Rackets don't produce a smash at all.
     
  16. NOLE.LUCKY

    NOLE.LUCKY Regular Member

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    Kinetic energy is not conserved, since the collision is not completely elastic. The shuttle deforms after the impact, and so does the stringbed. Atleast some of it is lost as potential energy, sound, frictional losses etc.
    I think the only law applicable here is the conservation of momentum, where we consider the mass of the racquet (and not the body) and the shuttle and their velocities. Your body doesn't have a velocity, but the racquet does.
     
  17. captaincook

    captaincook Regular Member

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    The body is connected to the racket. When the body is behind the shuttle, you can put your weight into the swing. When the racket hit the shuttle or anything, it is not just the racket. It is you and the racket swing at the wall or someone or something. Now please do not use your racket to swing at someone you don't like, especially put your weight behind/into the swing.
     
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    That's right, the mass of the arm can be imposed upon the racket swing, more so if technique is properly used.
     
  19. nooooooooooo

    nooooooooooo Regular Member

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    Your body movement and positioning may have some effect on your swing speed, but at moment of impact the only thing transferring energy to shuttle is the racket. Think of it this way: you transfer energy to your racket via your arm swing, the racket hits the shuttle - BOOM energy transfer. Your body is also relatively stationary during a smash.
     
  20. waterboy

    waterboy Regular Member

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    Is there a physics professor on this forum? Haha. My way of thinking is that since the mass of the shuttle cocktail stays the same, the only way it can be more "powerful" is if it has a faster speed. Since f=m x a. And going off the truck and bicycle analogy, if you do get hit by the truck, more force will be transferred to the object, which will then dictate a faster acceleration. So in my mind, a more powerful smash IS a faster smash
     

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