I would choose to keep attacking with fast furious smashes and work to improve the smashes, as in my experience playing pairs with strong smash returns, it would sometimes take quite a few smashes to finish the points but it also sometimes help if your partner is good at the front to vary the pace like instead of just thundering everything down they just feint a light touch up front (I've seen some players in our club finish points off in this fashion), chances is that it will come back as a lift and you can still continue attacking. Another attacking style that you can try is doing a lot of controlled pushes to the two corners , if the returns come back weak then you could finish off with smashes (especially if you aim at the backhand side, again I've seen the good players finish off points in this fashion). Smashing right in the middle (of the two defending players) is also an option as sometimes it might confused the two players of who to return the smashes (seen a lot of racket clashes with this one). Giving away clears is like the last resort if playing strong attacking players as it's like giving away the chance for them to attack you. When we're playing the stronger attacking players it's harder to get away from the pressure once they already on attack mode (I would end up using drive blocks and if we're lucky enough we would be in drive and flat exchanges before which pair is taking the attacking role again). My suggestion though (which might differ from everyone else) is to improve your attacks to be more fast and furious.
Which one of you would give up your attack and clear, when you are playing against players like FHF, TBH, KSH (of your level) ? NO !
He is playing against a defensive pair. So I assume he's playing versus a Lee Yong Dae or Koo Kean Keat of his level, so it is safe to just lift and lift to the back, tiring them out
Have you ever seen top international players lifting/clearing (albeit sparingly) and catching opponents looking for downward shots, in essence gaining an advantage? And those opponents are also players of comparable levels. Still they'd get caught. Coming to lower level, yeah, surely, all shots are in play. Unless, as said, you play professionally.
Well firstly, if I were up against these players, I would not need to give up the attack - they are all weak in defence. Secondly, If my opponent is the FHF of my level then I am the Candra Wijaya of my level - I have a rock solid defence, great attack and all round skill. I am not afraid of them, they should be afraid of me.
I agree with you - professionals sometimes use these tactics. You hear about it all the time when players do a lift over their opponents heads because the opponents are coming too far forwards looking to attack the net. The indonesians and japanese in particular are praised by commentary teams for playing "clever" lifts over the heads of the koreans or chinese. The only time when giving away the lift is a bad thing, is if your opponents attack is considerably better than your defence. In which case, your defence is not good enough for the level you are playing. This happens sometimes at a lower level, as everyone develops skills at a different rate. Some people become really good at driving or smashing, but they have rubbish defence. They should avoid lifting against people with a "good" attack... but that doesn't mean lifting is a bad tactic! People sometimes generalise with tactics and say that "lifting is bad" or "always attack if you can"... It means lifting is a bad tactic FOR THEM with their CURRENT set of skills against their opponent who is playing a certain way at the moment. If you played again tomorrow against the same opponents you might be able to defend easily but your smash keeps going in the net... so attacking is a stupid thing to do as your current skills on that day do not match the tactics you have chosen. Tactics are always constrained by your current set of skills in the current situations. From reading the original post, they will soon play against the same pair again: there is no time for learning to smash faster or harder. They have to learn how to use their existing skills to deal with an opponent who currently has certain skills. Obviously, in the long term, this pair needs to improve their attack to deal more easily with players who have good defence... but in the short term, a change of tactics (tactics = shot choice) is enough to pull off a win in most situations. Good luck everyone reading this thread. I am sure we have all been there against tough opponents thats are difficult to beat!
To be honest I've never seen any pairs that win and build points by just playing defense (at least not in my loacl league). They should be really good with attacks too right? LYD, KKK, CW they all got sick attacking skill. LYD got one of the best front/netplays intercepts and KKK's one of the fastest net/front players ever, CW got sick jump smashes and flat exchanges/drives Some would think Setiawan/Ahsan are more to defensive players but I think their attacks are crazy good and their defense is still not as kick-ass as their attacks One question to OP is they can't just build points from defense or counter attacks right? If they are it would be really bizzare as I would suspect they at least got good attacking qualities. A video of your game would really help to figure out what really needed to be done rather than getting us imagining/speculating about your local league game as I'm sure there are quite a lot of experienced skilled players here in BC.
If I thought that an attacking clear would expose a weak response from a player who was overcommitted to a defence of a smash or a drop, it really wouldn't matter what their initials were
Yes, not the normal type of defensive clears... but attacking clears ie. punch clears. Most effective when deceptively used with a hold then clear. Low trajectory and fast but in the rear tramlines. To catch off guard the opponent whose base is too far front. Just like one would use a deceptive fake smash drop to catch off guard someone whose base is too far back.
This is a point I often struggle to get across to my peers. I often find a good punch clear can be very very effective, particularly if I hold the shuttle and draw an early movement from my opponent. Not that many players I come across, even good league and lower County players will be able to attack every lift or clear I play if well timed and selected,and these are usually players whose level is generally higher than mine.
The bottom line, I think, is to review ones tactics, yes (Matt already said that). If one approach doesn't work, why not try some other approaches, at least for a short while to see if they work better. Same thing can be said in real-life problem solving, isn't it? Why keep banging one's head against the wall when it obviously hurts?
At the end, you will get to a point where you must count in the level of your opponents and just accept that they are better. If you do everything and nothing worked well, to win the game you are too weak or they are too strong or both. A lot lower league players who smash, smash hard, but without angle, placement and the ability to recover, they smash the hell out of their body, and stop. They also smash without thinking. They can't and don't bring the front player into the game. IMO there is nothing wrong with a clear or a lift in doubles. If you gain something everything is ok. If I read the OP properly, they should be quick and have a great defence and win. We don't know the OP and don't know the opponents, but I bet that both pairs are not on par. Generally I think that there isn't a standard recipe for this or that style. Every player is different and has areas of strength and weakness. If you can't see it and use it for your advantage, you are the weaker pair, even in the same league. Watch them against other players and notice when and why they loose points. IMO the best way to learn to play against opponents serious.
playing clears will be punished bad if playing province(prefecture) and regional league in my country (let alone the national level), it might be okay for local (town/city) league level where the level is not that crazy good that I'm playing, and no we're not even talking professional level here (nothing even close to that), the level might differ from different local game but bottomline we won't make it out local league if using too many clears https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHsE5-YpceE prefecture level game with former world player
In those cases, you would/should try something else but clears. The point is, as the OP couldn't penetrate opponents' defense, he should explore other areas looking for solution. THis is esp. so when the matches could repeat. Wouldn't you/he want to know if the results may be better (or worse) if you choose other means, including clears. If they don't work, then obviously don't use them. If nothing else works, then you know why you should lose.
So I watched the first bit of this game. I draw your attention to the lift at 2:30 - intentionally short and low so that the yellow player would smash. All the yellow players smashes have been flat so far, so they are not worried about it. The expected flat smash comes and they drive it straight back at the guy who smashed, and they win the point. Hardly what I call "punished bad" - the yellow guy should not have smashed that, and if he did he needs to get his racket up to deal with drive defence. I also saw several flick serves go un-punished. I also saw a lot of terrible defence - people without a proper defensive posture. These guys all move well, but their technique is not very consistent. None of them has a reasonable defence, and nothing close to a professional standard defence. I saw two flick serves in a row. The first is a winner against the yellow guy. The next they lose the point against a slow smash from the guy in white - but their defensive stance is terrible. Literally had his racket on the floor and didn't turn to play a forehand defence. Awful. At 3:11 the near team hits a terrible short lift (off a good net shot). Even then, the guy in yellow cannot put the shuttle away, and does not have his racket up and ready after the shot. These guys are ok, but I wouldn't be worried about lifting to any of them. But I wouldn't need to lift - I would just smash wide at their forehands and watch them fail to take it backhand. And I don't know why the near side keep trying these cross court backhand shots from the rear court. Drive it straight! At 4:10 another big lift, followed by a smash, driven defence and then a mistake by the smasher. Whilst these guys are all playing a good standard, their defence is so bad that they will not get to the next level until they fix it. With their skills, lifting maybe a risk. But their skills are not good enough given how well they otherwise can move!
Just to butt in here, the nature of lifting has changed. Previously we were told to hit high ones to the back of the tramlines. It is still a usable tactic. The trick is when to use the lift and how to counter it. It's not just simply defend a smash. Can you keep calm when receiving a smash and control it for a possible counter attack? The other thing about lifting now is that we can lift short so long as it is a flatter trajectory lift. Anybody trying to full smash that risks the shuttle going out the back of the court. I would say this is an advanced technique and a cat and mouse situation. Do those people hitting the shuttle down decide to smash (risk shuttle going out) or play safe, dropshot and wait for a better smash opportunity. I think for the OP, they mentioned a league but not county. That's why I tailored my advice to footwork, trying to get to the shuttle earlier, getting the earlier hitting point and having more options. They cannot expect to go full out and smash as usual. They found it doesn't work. They will have to be a little more patient. They will lose some points on being patient as it is not their natural game but they will learn to apply different tactics and win on other points (and maybe more).
Just to add a bit of my experiences to what people are saying. Against great defenders I find it takes time, patience and a lot of probing until you get a weakness. It also requires your partner at the net to be really alert. I find the most effective way of breaking down a defence is variation of shots. Playing a few drop shots in a row often drags the defending player closer to the net as they may be a bit slow getting back to base as they get tired. That's the time stuffing a full power smash down their throat or a cheeky punch clear. Placement into middle of the court also causes a split second delay as the defenders decide if it's their shot or the partners. As well as smashing to different areas/steepness, I often suddenly change the pace of the smash. If you put two or three full power smashes in they opponents often just use the pace of the shuttle to bounce it to the back of the court. If you suddenly put a slow smash in & they don't realise it they end trying to flick back a shuttle with no energy in it & that gives your partner at the net a kill or you with a mid court smash. Conversly if your only putting half pace smashes and suddenly ramp up the speed the opposition often don't adjust their swing and add to much which ends up with a lift that's out. Things like this have worked for me against pairs that defend well but it has to be said that the rally's tend to be long & you have to be fit and consistent even with the variation in shots to keep the pressure on and force that mistake.
