How to return a certain shot?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by LordGopu, May 26, 2016.

  1. LordGopu

    LordGopu Regular Member

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    Scenario: Doubles (let's say mens), you're serving even, you and your partner are both right handed. You serve to your opponents T or wide. They return it with a straight, precise netshot to your backhand (like barely in, it would land on or just next to the sideline).

    Who's supposed to play that shot? The server or your partner standing behind you? And how do you get to it in time on your backhand? I find I can barely get there as server and as rear player I can't get there at all and I'm standing pretty close to the server. I never learned to split-step so I'm wondering if that's what I'm missing.

    I'm guessing serving to the T also gives you a bit more time than serving wide and of course doing a nice, low serve too.

    On my forehand side I can get them as server and I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to get them when they're tight to the net but when they're a little more like a dropshot than a netshot, who's supposed to get it?
     
  2. kaki!

    kaki! Regular Member

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  3. Tactim

    Tactim Regular Member

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    Wait, is your opponent's shot going to the net? The backline? Or the midcourt area near the side line. If it's the midcourt area near the sideline, that is a difficult shot for most doubles players (who aren't regular partners) to get because it's in between the two. I would tend to defer to the rearcourt player to lunge and do a lift back to the opponents. But if you can intercept the shot as the front court player, i would either try to drive it, drop it back, or lift it depending on how high the shuttle is (the earlier and higher you can intercept, the more aggressive return you can make)
     
  4. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Generally speaking the server should cover all tight net shots right after the service if serving low.

    If you can't get that then bias your stance to your backhand more.
     
  5. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    So, lots to consider. Firstly: playing the service wide makes your job of covering the net far more difficult! Do not do it unless it gets you a clear advantage in the rally (them playing a tight net shot that you can't return is not a clear advantage). Secondly: playing to the T makes it harder for them to get the shuttle away from you, but easier to play it to the side (you give them more of an angle to hit it out wide). So thats something else to consider: the ease with which you can cover the shot versus the ease with which they can hit it. Serving to the middle of the box makes their shot least likely, but really its not all that difficult to hit even from there - i.e. you cannot stop them playing the shot, so you need to learn how to cover the shot.

    So whose shot is it? If it can be taken easily in front of you (its not travelling too far past your body) then its yours. Otherwise leave it for the guy behind. It is never a good shot when the front player has to turn sideways to take the shuttle. Just let the back player take an easy shot!

    Positioning after the serve is the most important thing to consider to determine how easy/diffiuclt it is to reach the shot. The wider you serve, the more biased you need to be to that side. The more central you serve, the more central you need to stand. I can go into more detail, but for now lets keep it as simple as that! Remember, when you try to take the shuttle, go forwards to meet the shuttle and cut it off early (think about moving forwards at 45 degrees - equal sideways and forwards). Do not go sideways and follow the path of the shuttle! That is a long distance and you will struggle to reach the shot.

    From the sounds of it, you seem to struggle to move to the backhand side. I have to ask why though - its only two steps! Same as on the forehand side!!! Maybe you need to address your footwork?

    Good luck :) let me know if you have any questions!
     
  6. LordGopu

    LordGopu Regular Member

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    Here I made a little picture because I maybe didn't explain it great. Some people understood what I was saying and some didn't. I'm talking about service returns that go in that red circle (whether they be closer to the net or a little further back). The ones far enough back (like behind the service line) I can get as the rear player but ahead of that line I find I don't have time to get there and I don't even know if it's my shot or their's.

    I'd also like to point out that I play at a club with no consistant partner so I can't get everything working perfectly to play all shots. Even if I know strategy there's no guarantee my partner will. I suspect part of the difficulty with these shots is that when my partner serves too high or too wide it makes it easier for our opponents to make a fast little push to that area and I don't have time to get to it.

    It might be a footwork thing. I've been meaning to bring a camera and tripod for a while. In the heat of the match it's hard to notice when I step wrong. The season is almost over and this summer I'm going to do drills with some of the better players from the club.

    2012112217441136218.jpg
     
  7. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Please refer to the post I made. Your positioning is probably wrong, as is where you are intending to take the shuttle. The shot, where you show it landing (on the service line) is YOURS to take. Anything faster than that, and its your partners. I have added to your drawing to make it clearer.

    On the drawing I have marked:
    1. the net with a grey line
    2. the realistic angles your opponent could hit using blue lines
    3. the places where those shots cross the net with yellow circles
    4. the position you should move to after you serve with a blue cross. The blue cross is the correct position to cover the court because it is equidistant from the yellow circles. Covering the whole net is worthless - you need only cover the bit between the yellow circles because everything else is out (or has been hit very very slowly and very very high and loopy - so you can easily reach it and kill it).
    5. I have marked in orange the direction you should move and the place you should intercept the shot from your opponent. You see it is only 1 step away from you.

    Note: if your opponent is stepping forwards to take the shuttle early, the blue lines (point no 2) and hence the yellow circles (point 3) and the blue cross (point 4) will all change. But this should give you enough information that you can actually work out where you should be standing based on where the shuttle can realistically cover the net.
     

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  8. LordGopu

    LordGopu Regular Member

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    Yes it looks like I'm too far to the right when I finish serving. I also don't move forward. I would guess that's the problem because my serves to the T are very tight. Really it's only when I serve wide that I end up in this situation anyway. Which is a good reason not to serve wide very often (not that I do). I think I also have to learn how to get from my serving position of leaning forward and having most of my weight on my front (right) foot, to a normal position so that I can move in time.

    When I'm the rear player I think the issue is just bad serving from my partners. They serve too high (or wide) and it allows the receiver to play the return fast and at a slight downward angle which makes it hard for me to get there in time. If their serve were lower it would at least force the receiver to play the shot at a slight upward angle which would give me more time to work with.
     
  9. khoai

    khoai Regular Member

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    Try this drill:
     
  10. LordGopu

    LordGopu Regular Member

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    Wow that looks like a good drill.
     
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    As long as you show that you try to mentally and physically cover that service return to your backhand side successfully (and that is your shot by the way), you will instill some doubt and fear in your opponent, who will think twice before doing it again.

    This is part of the psychological aspect of the game.
     
  12. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    Well, I must say if the serve return is played like you said perfectly, it is a very difficult shot. This is something many of us should understand. I also faced it myself. you don;t need to be discouraged and think you play bad badminton

    Reason :
    1. It between the rear and front player.
    This is the number one reason. There is that hesitation to move. The front player thought is split because he think he can reach and also because he thinks it's better for the rear player to play the shot. The rear player also think the shot can be reached by the front player while he can also play a good shot. Result : a clash or that sudden freezing because both hesitate to hit.

    2. in reaction, a backhand is generally shorter, slower and weaker to a forehand.

    No.1 is the problem you should clarify first. I do it like this . If I the front player thinks (and able) the shot can be hit at or before the serve line zone (the zone between the serve line and the net), then he take it. If he can't do that never ever move back (or even move) to try to take the shot becaus the rear player will take it. It will confuse the rear player if you move, even if a bit and then leave the shuttle to be hit.

    clear the hesitation and define the roles.

    the key here is hit those that are hittable in your own zone. Leave to the rear player and stay still if you can't. Don't move back when you try to hit the shuttle. ofc there are aggresive players who will always try to take the shot no matter what, but that's an outlier.

    and no.2 I took advice from Lee Jong Bak. the 70-30 body and mind reversal
    After you serve, immediately position your body 70% to the left and 30% to the right, but put your mind that there is only a 30% chance he will play to the straight area and 70% chance he will play the cross court. most of the time I will play a lift. better players somehow can do that cross court shot with their backhand. but if it's more of a loose shot, you can kill it too of the height is enough.

    as the rear player, move immediately to the middle of your own court as there is the chance the opponent will do a cross court shot, so you can get there in time.

    but really, it is a difficult shot, you can compare this to those defensive drives against a smash that are put on the tramlines at midcourt. It's between the front and rear player. So just try so it'won't be a free point every time
     
  13. bbmars

    bbmars Regular Member

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    I have encountered this many many times with variaties of partners of different playing style.
    Most of the time, players positioning is the sole cause of the problem especially after serving, many do not expect certain kind of shot, or may not have encounter such shots, or that the partner should take over. Yes, knowing the type of players I partner, I try and most time to be able to cover my partners. However, this depends much on the intensify and players level. Against, fast and advance players,... good luck.

    Understanding of the game in partnership is another important issue, know who should do what is crucial at critical time. I had encountered player expecting me to take over when he can't do it or cope when it is his call. Players who often standing at wrong position after sending or receiving a shot over, wrong perception of what he should be standing, etc... All these add up.

    As for serving to the T or wide, I do that with variation. Sometimes T sometimes wide and have no issue with it. Lots depends on where you opponent is standing. Serve with a little disguise and keep your opponent on his toe. If he stands too near to the T, will do a wide one to stretch him, and sometimes, mislead that it is going out or about to go out. Also serving intentionally to the wide but last execution, turn the shuttle to the T. Occasionally flick serve. All this needs practice and honing your technique.

    I have also learn how to return wide service instead of my often boring predictable return shot sending it directly on the same side either to mid court of push it to the back.
    I learn to also send it across the court directly pass the server and to the back the other corner.
    Or, push it back directly to the server, giving him/her little time to react if fast enough.
    Or rarely, I do a cross court net, I did, not very effective, need skills and technique, not letting you opponent anticipate your intention easily. Also not sure that's good thing to do, but all these, you can't do it too often, you loose that element of surprise. Your opponent becomes weary of your shot.
     
    #13 bbmars, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  14. LordGopu

    LordGopu Regular Member

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    Well I played much better on Friday.

    As the server, I was pouncing on those net shots though most of them came to the forehand side (just cuz of how the score/serving direction worked out). So I didn't get to practice the backhand as much but I was getting them (though they also weren't all PERFECT shots to that difficult area).

    I think part of it was also that maybe I haven't been hydrating properly. The weather suddenly got a lot more humid/warm lately and I'm sweating like crazy. I only had one bottle of water with me on Wednesday when I was struggling but I brought another one Friday and I felt energized by the end so I think I was maybe slow from dehydration as well.

    As for being the rear player, it didn't really happen. I think my partners were serving better (I didn't play with the guy who was serving too high last time) and making it harder for our opponents to play those shots at a downward angle.

    I also realize that there will always be issues, to some extent, because it's club level play and we have no consistant partner. Therefore I can never get used to one person enough to sync up with them well for those shots in uncertain places. Our club is just too big and there are too many different people I play with.
     
  15. ein_roboter

    ein_roboter Regular Member

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    All that can be said about this problem has already been said in the replies. Personally, Visor's comment is close to my own game; after your service, be mentally and physically ready for all the short shots/net drop shots and do try to show it. The third shot in a rally is so important, as you counter your opponents first shot. That's what so awesome to see in the matches of Setiawan/Ahsan; they truly mastered the 3rd shot.

    Show your opponents that you aren't afraid at the net and they are more eager to lift the shuttle. It's a great tactic by the way when playing doubles to place that shot between your opponents (with a soft push). At best, the person at the net should always try to intercept and hunt the shuttle down.
     
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