Quick swing vs. Hard hitter?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by jlimzq, May 11, 2016.

  1. jlimzq

    jlimzq Regular Member

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    Is there a difference? I keep hearing some players say they have a quick swing, others say they are hard hitters. Or are they the same thing? Thanks for comments and opinions in advance!

    On a side note, I have no idea if this is the right forum to post this question. Admin kindly move thread if necessary.
     
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Quick swing more important in doubles, hard hitter more important in singles.
     
  3. jlimzq

    jlimzq Regular Member

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    How does it affect the shot i.e. the difference between say smash with a quick swing vs. a smash with a hard hit?

    Also, how do I know if I have a quick swing or a hard hit?

    Thanks!
     
  4. Invigor

    Invigor New Member

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    You can think of it as swinging a stick at something (quick swing) versus swinging a hammer at something (hard/powerful hit). If you have the strength in your arms to swing the hammer quickly, it will be more effective than using the stick. However, the stick will be easier to swing around (for defending in doubles, for example).

    Hard hitters would generally favor using head-heavy rackets (similar properties as a hammer) for smashing as opposed to head-light rackets which have more maneuverability. If you don't have the strength/technique to use a head-heavy racket, you could produce a faster shot by using a head-light racket to swing quickly. If your smash is better using a head-heavy racket, you are a hard-hitter, if it's better with a head-light racket, you are more effective using a quick swing.
     
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  5. jlimzq

    jlimzq Regular Member

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    Thanks so much for the replies! It makes much more sense to me now. However, Invigor when you say:

    "If your smash is better using a head-heavy racket, you are a hard-hitter, if it's better with a head-light racket, you are more effective using a quick swing."

    does that mean I need to find out which type of racket I'm more comfortable with? Or which type of racket I smash more successfully (e.g. clears the net) with? Or perhaps some other factor to decide what "better" would be?
     
  6. Invigor

    Invigor New Member

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    By "better" I meant the speed of your smash. And yes, it should feel comfortable too - there are people I know who got shoulder pain by using head-heavy rackets without the necessary technique/power.

    Keep in mind that I was only trying to answer the your question regarding hard-hitters and quick swings. There are a lot of factors other than balance while choosing a racket - weight, flex, frame shape, whether you play singles or doubles et al. In my opinion, it is better to avoid heavy/head-balanced rackets until you're confident about your strokes and can then make a more informed decision about what type of racket to go for.
     
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  7. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Firstly I will say it is completely irrelevant how people or you characterise yourself. I could call myself a guy with a "quick swing", whereas someone else classifies me as a "hard hitter". Who cares? The only thing that matters to me is the quality of my shots. I can hit with similar power with head heavy or with head light rackets. There are also some rackets out there where the flex is too much and I can't generate much power at all. Let me repeat: the ONLY thing that matters to me is the quality of my shots - after that I do not care how other people describe me.

    To answer your question about different rackets - you do not NEED to do anything. If you are happy playing and improving and enjoying your game, then just continue. If you practice hard every day, you will become an excellent player regardless of which racket you use. If on the other hand you are interested in trying new rackets then go ahead. The key here is to use a variety. And its really important for you to realise that there is no racket that is better or worse, or better for you or worse for you, or some theoretical reason it should be superior or not. It is ONLY a matter of whether you instantly like it or not.

    So - if you pick up a racket to try (use someone elses) and you IMMEDIATELY think "this is nice" or "my shots are really good with this", then you know that there is something out there which is better suited for you than your current racket. Reasons you may enjoy a racket are:
    1. head heavy or head light or balanced
    2. flexible or stiff or medium stiff
    3. strings tighter or slacker than current racket

    If you use a few rackets and look at their specifications, you will notice some trends. The ones you like will probably be similar in some way, and the more you use, the more you refine what you "like". For example, I currently enjoy a medium balance racket with a little bit of weight in the head. I like the grip to be relatively thin so that I can have more than one layer of grip. I like the shaft to be stiff. I like the strings to be very tight.

    However, just 2 months ago I really enjoyed a VERY head heavy racket, with much slacker strings (which is unusual for me - I don't normally like slack strings).

    At the end of the day, there is only one definition of "good" for a racket: do you enjoy playing with it? Does it "feel" good when you swing it and make contact with the shuttle?

    Good luck to you in your search for a racket!
     
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  8. s6edge

    s6edge Regular Member

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    I thought the faster you swing the harder the birdie goes
     
  9. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Hitting harder, and the birdie would go faster, that much is true.
    I think one element is missing. It's the total time it takes from moment your opponent hits it, to the time when your return may hit opponent's floor.

    An example i'd use to elaborate this point is smashes. You've full smashes and half/stick smashes. When you've time (as in high lift to you), you could generate all the power you may have, and the birdie would be faster/fastest for you. Hard hitter would be able to make good use of the same time allowed, and hit a faster smash then you.

    When you don't have time, as in receiving flick serves, or interception scenario, you won't be able to do the needed setup, and make the shuttle go as fast as a full smash. However, your shot may get back to opponent court, seeking the floor faster. This total time is the sum of your preparation time plus the time your shot needs. Some people may have faster swing/actions than others.

    Another example of fast swing is in the short/fast exchanges of taps/drives in the front/mid-court. Usually, this is when you can have little/no back swing.

    Finally, there might not be contradiction between fast and hard hit. Someone may be able to hit it fast and hard, all else equal, when compared to another player.
     
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  10. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

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    At what level you like to c
     
  11. jlimzq

    jlimzq Regular Member

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    I remember reading somewhere that while what you said is true, a head-heavy racket gives more accuracy because there is less "wobble" (for lack of a better term) when the racket contacts the shuttle. I do not know how true this really is, or if the difference in accuracy is actually significant.

    Other than that it seems the general consensus is an equally quick smash can be attained with either a head-heavy or head-light racket, but that choice depends solely on personal play style and preference.

    Another thing I remember reading is that head-heavy rackets produce a fast smash when the player's swing speed is in sync with the flex of the racket. The forward springing effect produced by a head-heavy racket that is flexed backwards because of the player's swing adds speed to the smash. If the player's swing is too fast or too slow for that specific racket, then the added speed bonus is more or less lost.

    A swing with a head-light racket has the same effect, but because the head is lighter, an even quicker swing speed is needed to achieve the same springing effect.

    Can anyone confirm?
     
  12. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I disagree about accuracy of head heavy versus head light. Good technique will mean the strings point at your target, meaning you are accurate. Head heaviness of the racket will not affect this. Your summary that rackets are based on personal preference is spot on!

    Lets clear up the swing speed, racket balance, flexibility factors for power.
    Head heavy rackets will hit harder, if all other variables are accounted for e.g. the rackets flex the same amount and are swung at the same speed.
    A faster racket head speed will hit harder, if all other variables are accounted for e.g. the rackets flex the same amount and are equal weight.

    Based on the above two premises, a fast racket head speed with a head heavy racket will produce the most power. This shouldn't surprise anyone. I do NOT know the extent to which of the above is more important e.g. if you swing quicker with a head light racket does that produce more power than swinging slower with a head heavy racket? I have NO idea. And I don't care.

    The flex of the racket is the interesting one. It must be matched to your swing speed. Players with a longer swing will benefit from a more flexible racket. By longer swing I mean the racket is moving for a longer period of time before making contact with the shuttle. Players with a shorter swing will benefit from a stiffer shaft. The reason for this, is that as you say, when the racket is being swung it distorts, it bends. It does not stay straight. However, it will "snap" back to being straight at some point. You want the timing of the racket "snapping" back to straight to be timed at the same moment that you hit the shuttle, because it just lends a little more power.

    Racket flex is weird because, depending on whether the racket is head heavy or head light, a flexible racket or a stiff racket will flex a different amount (head heavy will cause it to flex more). So there is a subtle blend whereby a "stiff" head heavy racket may FEEL flexible when used, whilst a "stiff" head light racket may FEEL very stiff when used, because the weight of the head will affect the flex. However, this difference is mad even more noticeable by swing speed. If you swung the racket slowly enough, it would not distort at all even though one is head heavy or one i head light. So the swing speed is a factor in whether it feels stiff or not.

    Where do we end up with all of this? Shorter, more compact swings, will generally benefit from a racket that is stiffer, or FEELS stiffer. Generally, as players get better and their technique improves, the racket head speed they generate increases, and the length of their swing shortens (they use a more compact and efficient hitting action). Thus, as players improve and refine their technique, rackets of different types and feels will begin to feel better or worse.

    At the end of all this, you can see how complicated it starts getting. But at the end of the day, there is virtually no way to accurately measure the length of someones swing, or the amount a racket flexes during that swing, or the speeds it gets to during the swing, or whether the racket returns to straight at the correct time. Thus, choosing rackets is most easily done on feel. It feels good? Its a good racket for you. It doesn't feel good? Don't even bother trying to play with it - in order to enjoy it, you will have to completely change your technique and or timing. Although thats not to say that you won't like that racket or similar rackets in a few years time once your game has changed!

    Is anyone else left feeling lost and confused?
     
  13. mindfields

    mindfields Regular Member

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    From my point of view the difference between a Quick Swing and a Hard hit is the time taken to do it.

    A player with a Hard hit has a high Swing speed at the point of impact. The Question is how long did they take to get to that speed i.e. did they have a big preparation/wind up.

    Some people can do a full on smash with very little wind up as they can get the racquet up to full speed "quickly"

    Lets put it this way.
    Someone with a slow swing taking a full wind up CAN be a Hard hitter.
    Someone with a quick swing taking a full wind up WILL be bringing the thunder!.
     
  14. bbmars

    bbmars Regular Member

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    I used to be a hard hitter, but has since switch mostly to quick swing. In the past, I used to smashed a lot. However, as I aged and injury started all over without realising I am no longer that young. I was used to head heavy racket relying a lot on my power until I over done it ended up with a frozen shoulder and went out of action for 3 months ( I was already into my late 40s then)

    I have now switch over and only occasionally smashed like the way I used to. I have also switch over to head light racket, not just that but also light racket in the range of 82-84g with grip and string at 25-26 pounds. Guess, the smash can still be a thunder, very much depending on your technique. Of course, I can no longer pack that kind of power in my smash any more, too old to do that now but for my age, still many intermediate players have problem with it. People also tell me about not able to generate power in their smashes due to light head racket... to me, not true.

    Put it this way, if you don't have the correct technique, no matter how good your racket can achieve, you will never be able to get your intended application because the player is not up to mark, nothing is wrong with the racket. I have seen many players switching over to buying more expensive racket with all sorts of claim. ... the claims are legitimate, but the PLAYERS are not up to it. so what is the point? You will never achieved what it claim to be unless you are say, Lin Dan or LCW,... or some international players where these rackets were originally design for certain players in mind

    However, for quick swing, I am able to generate more power then I expected in play then before due to lack of smash power. kind of consolation for me and I have to switch my game plan according to my body needs. I am into my mid 50s and focusing more on my technique to strengthen my game and compensate for those I am lacking in.
     
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