[Video] Form Check - Overhead Clear

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by DarkHiatus, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    I'm taking things back to basics, and trying to improve on my overhead racquet action. I've taken a video of a warmup with me purposely trying to slow down my action a bit, and make it look more relaxed.

    I currently feel the action isn't bad, but sometimes some clears come out more effortlessly, and others not so - i.e. there's a bit of inconsistency which I can't quite pin down.

    From watching the footage myself, I view myself as a bit stiff and maybe awkward, with the one stroke (a light smash) at 0:38 looking reasonably relaxed.

    I would pin this down to possibly not moving far back enough, and that my left arm could still do with some work (it used to be much worse, with me practically punching myself). With regard to forehand movement, I am purposefully not scissoring as I personally find the recovery to base more relaxed if i keep the left foot forward after the stroke.

    Any comments would be appreciated, footwork, racquet action, anything!

    *edit every time: i'm nearside, in the dark grey

    **Edit 2: update with second video, trying to get behind the shuttle and move forwards, and also trying to reach up a bit more.



     
    #1 DarkHiatus, Dec 15, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  2. decoy

    decoy Regular Member

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    I'm assuming that you're the one in the dark shirt that's nearest to the camera? In general I think it doesn't look bad, but when you play your shots you don't have your shoulder lifted, it looks like the only parts of your arm that you're using is from your elbow down.

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  3. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Correct about the player - in grey, nearside to the camera. Not sure what you mean by the shoulder - in order to move my elbow forward, i have to move my arm from my shoulder. I feel like i'm definitely moving my elbow forwards. Do you mean I don't turn my shoulder around my spine i.e. maybe standing too square to begin with? Or maybe you mean I should lean to the left so my shoulder points to the ceiling (I'd normally expect this for a smash, but not a clear).

    I get what you mean by there doesn't seem to be much moving other than my arm, but i'm not sure what the solution could be?

    P.S. nice phone, great for taking videos like the above :p
     
  4. decoy

    decoy Regular Member

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    I just mean that in a few shots you don't have your arm fully extended. In the first shot of your video it is, but then you start to raise your arm less and less. Then you start turning the bottom of your body but not the top. I'm really not good and phrasing this it's hard to explain in words and not showing it. Here's a video to explain what I mean. If you watch how Fu Haifeng does it, he has his arm almost fully extended and most of his rotation is his upper body. At one point he shows how people lose power when they don't have their arm extended, and that's what I'm seeing a few times in your video.





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  5. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    I get your point but I question whether it's relevant for a simple clear? For a smash, I understand you get more power this way, but the contact point is too far above me to smash these without standing a bit further back. Probably tells me I need to stand back a bit more at the least.

    To give an example of what I mean by being okay with the shoulder in a less lifted position. Here's LCW and LD warming up below. Both get good distance and height without involving the full body there, and a few they even have their arm quite bent.

     
  6. decoy

    decoy Regular Member

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    The difference though is that their arms are unbending just as they hit the shuttle. They're definitely not as straight as Fu is showing, but they're somewheres in between his and yours. Power is power, if it helps for a smash, there's no reason it wouldn't make your clears take less effort as well.

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  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    It's not bad. I see two main things:

    1) definitely you can reach up more to hit the shuttle. i.e raise the striking point.

    2) you can coordinate your body rotation better. You rotate your body and move your arm simultaneously. So it looks a little ungainly.
    In the CCTV video, you can see Zhang Ning's serve in slow motion where she rotates her body and then moves the arm and finally the racquet. In Fu Hai Feng's smash, his body rotates first, then he pulls the arm and then this pulls the racquet head.
     
  8. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Fair point, I can see what you mean. That should help with getting the contact further out in front as well. I'll have a go at consciously reaching further up. The arm position might be because I've recently been getting out of the habit of 'pushing' my racquet too, rather than pulling it and letting the racquet do the work.

    Thanks for the ideas
     
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  9. decoy

    decoy Regular Member

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    I used to have issues with the pushing thing too. So I know what you mean!

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  10. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Whilst Lin Dan and LCW are not reaching for maximum height, they are using maximum reach (but its more sideways towards their forehands rather than up in the air).

    I have watched your video once, so this is not very thorough... but roughly speaking:
    1. Your contact point is quite low. Please reach further for the shuttle. In my view your stroke looks a little "rushed" and a little "cramped" - its because you are letting the shuttle get so low. There is no excuse here - being able to hit a full length clear with a bent elbow is not a justification for doing so!
    2. Your contact point is quite late, especially in the deep forehand side (where it has nearly gone past you). Please get further behind the shuttle - I want you to be able to perform any shot from this position: drop, clear or smash. I would have no confidence in your smash (and hence no value in your drop shots) from this body positioning. I know its only a warm up... but still! Strive for better! LCW is behind the shuttle.
    3. Whilst you may not want to "scissor", your current body utilisation is sub-optimal. Most of the time you are hitting clears to the right (as I look at the screen), your body is moving towards the left - this means your body momentum is going sideways, not forwards. This is fixed by getting behind the shuttle and then leaning into the shot, rather than away from it. LCW's body movement is not very forwards, but he doesn't veer to the left in the same way you do. When you perform your "smashes", you are still leaning to the left - you will have a better quality of shot when you learn to control this momentum and body positioning. Note: not being behind the shuttle causes the weird body momentum falling to the left. I speak from experience :) Also note that whilst you may not want to switch your feet around (which is fine), you will still have an element of hip rotation and trunk rotation during the shot. This is probably fixed, again, by getting behind the shuttle and reaching up.

    Those are my main points:
    Low contact, position not behind the shuttle, utilisation of body movements.

    Hope that makes sense. Let me know if you want more in depth details etc and I can take a closer look.

    Cheers!
     
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  11. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Hi there, I've watched your video a couple of times through and key points have been picked out. I have one other thing to add.

    This expands a little bit on MSeeley's third point.

    In your backhand corner, you're using a motion that isn't useful. You're still moving your feet as if you were to scissor, but none of it is actually carrying through. What this means is, you're taking the extra time to make this step, and it's not doing anything for your shot.

    In your forehand corner, when you move your feet as you strike, you may be turning your foot back in towards the court, but your moment is still travelling backwards. In this situation it's actually better to leave your foot on the floor, turn your foot in towards the court as you play the shot, but press forward with that foot. This way you press your momentum moves forwards rather than allowing it to continue travelling backwards as you play your shot.
     
  12. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Thanks all for the pointers.

    Looks like low contact is a pretty big feature, I'll just have to reach up more on this one, and try and get rid of the pushing habit that crept it's way in.

    Body rotation has only been an issue since I've moved to a higher racquet carriage and ready position oddly enough. Probably too much focus on my shoulder/elbow/racquet head positioning and now it's out of sync from my lower body.

    The momentum moving backwards has been an issue for a while, I've been trying to modify my footwork to a 3 step footwork rather than a long chasse, but when I focus on anything else other than footwork I lapse, and I can also feel the shuttle going over my head before I hit it.

    Would it be beneficial just to let it drop instead of hitting it and seeing it if lands more in front of me than behind me?
     
  13. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Matt already has good pointers.

    Your shoulder muscles look tight. You may want to do some stretching exercises to loosen them so that you can reach higher. Need more hip and trunk rotation leading into the shot to make use of body wt transfer.

    You also mentioned about tending to pushing instead of pulling into the shot. Actually it's even better to activate more muscles in your arm by combining both ie. ***first pull then push into the shot.***

    What that means is you need to emphasize the feel of elbow leading first (pulling your hand that is now coming from behind your head). Then very soon after, you should emphasize the feel of extending your forearm (pushing your hand forwards). This sequence should happen smoothly and quickly without any break between pull and push.

    Pushing should be done with the ulnar edge of your wrist, so that pronation can occur more effectively.

    Finally right after the push, finger power or grip tightening will add even more power. But that's another thread...
     
    #13 visor, Dec 15, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  14. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    I found that much of the sequence is to do with the time I have to take the shot. When I'm warming up and I can focus in the full sequence, I can remind myself to cock fully back, allowing the pull motion. Otherwise, I don't cock fully and start at the pushing motion.

    Today I tried to begin the cocking action earlier and it does help for power, which also aids in deception. Just having a bit of trouble getting behind the shuttle AND getting the full motion so I've been focusing on one at a time.

    Getting behind the shuttle seems to be really difficult for me. I think I've ingrained the right footwork patterns, but either using them at the wrong time, or not making the steps large enough to actually get behind the shuttle. I again tried to get behind it properly and the shots speak for themselves - more power/control/options. When I'm under any sort of pressure my footwork gets lazy as moving back properly isn't natural yet annoyingly.
     
  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Lol... then you'll need to start another thread on footwork, ie fast feet exercises, split step, etc.
     
  16. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    My split step is fast enough, and my feet are fast at taking lots of little steps. The problem is the steps aren't big enough :( Has nothing to do with height, because if I focus, I can move a further distance in the same time using the same footwork. Just need to get my brain to WANT to get behind the shuttle properly. Perhaps I took the Rasmussen drill too far. Quick first step and good at setting direction, but the additional steps don't get me where I need to be.

    I just tried dry swinging a racquet a couple times and reached up more. Can already hear the difference. Going to mess up my timing properly when I get this introduced, but it'll be well worth it I'm sure :D It feels much less cramped and more relaxed when I do the dry swings, but I bet I'm going to feel really short on time when I do it on court.

    On the plus side, it might mean I don't need to move as far back since I'll be taking the shuttle earlier/higher!
     
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Partly it is because he's not fast enough. He hasn't got the flying step. There are some shots in which you have to travel backwards and still turn. You can't get back and behind every shot.

    If you look carefully when he goes backwards to the round the head position, apart from trying to turn the body simultaneously and strike which I mentioned before (usually it is a slight sequential action), have a close look at the right leg. See how during the action just after hitting the shuttle, it flies out to the side instead of forward. So, he finds it a bit slow to get back to base especially when pushed further to the back court. That's what you notice about him not really carrying through and not having forward momentum.

    (PS it would be easier if the camera is set at about waist height rather than on the floor).
     
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  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    he needs the flying step :)
     
  19. bridgestone

    bridgestone Regular Member

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    A lot of peoples doing warm up wrongly. They just pick up shuttle and mindlessly hit the shuttle across, to anywhere using any strokes.
    From the LD and LCW warm up, it is clearly shown they start with clearing shot. They are aiming to return the shot to opponent's forehand so opponent can easily shot (not to make difficult shot for opponent cause this is WARM UP). This is also good time to judge your baseline and baseline shot and the amount of strength used to hit to baseline. After lobbing, normally is followed by flat drive/smash/drop and end with net shot.
     
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  20. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    I'm not sure if I agree with the statement that I dont have enough time, and cannot get behind every shot. In this case with a warm-up with high clears I'm not pressured on movement at all.

    I've been practising the flying step, but this warm is one scenario I'd never need to use it - I could move further back just by making my step a bit bigger.

    My trouble is my brain doesn't feel the need to move back any further. If my brain is convinced I'm far back enough, then I end up leaning backwards as I play the shot, leading to the backwards/sideways momentum. That's what I feel anyway.

    I'm not sure how to re-baseline my positioning, other than to imagine I'm setting up for a jump smash (in which case I do generally move far enough behind), then playing a different shot.

    (Agree about camera, typical day where we got the end court without a ledge. The other four courts have a ledge at perfect filming height!)
     

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