BTW Nine Tale, I agree with you that HW will suffer a lot, and that is more or less my point. I feel it's a shame that the tall guys have to give away their natural advantage here. We will end up with small players serving very high serves (they may hit the shuttle at a height illegal to players not using the system!), where as tall players must adjust to a more strict rule... Cheers, FB
wouldn't it be very easy for a smartphone app to determine if the serve is above 110cm?? you don't need to invent a new detection device, do you?
i found the CCTV5 video on the service fault machine!! http://www.aiyuke.com/video_play/v697b750304d.html
The video didn't show the (electronic) device, only the stands with board and line indicator. Li Yongbo mentioned the three heights BWF have in mind, 1.05m, 1.1m and 1.15m, and the MAs were told to select one preferred height for test practice and provide feedback after a period of time, and LYB has chosen 1.1m for CBA. He also said they can also suggest other preferred heights for consideration but apparently he has picked one of the three BWF suggested, that is 1.1m. Perhaps BWF has thought it unnecessary to lend the tester the complete set of device with the camera(s) but only to test out the suggested heights. I suppose it's to save cost as BWF themselves haven't decided whether to incorporate the device for competition use. But why not talk to the manufacturer or supplier to lend a few for trial and evaluation ? My understanding is that it cannot be just the stands with height indicator as that will still require the service judge to arbitrate as before with all its attendant issues, no improvement, doesn't solve the problem at all. Just saying.
Any word on when Tang Yuanting comes back? She was really the best WD player, so its a shame to lose her.
I disagree with featherblaster here: To address the tall guy can't serve problem, we should set a height where the tallest athlete (kolding) can serve comfortably, e.g. 1.15/1.2m. Shorter guys should be able to serve from where tall guys can at 1.15/1.2m. Their natural advantage is that they can smash steeper, or for basketball guys shoot from a higher position. This sort of natural advantage is fine, as it represents what the taller body can do. The natural advantage of height should not apply to the serve. The serve is basically saying short guys are forced to have a less effective shot due to the shape of their body, not what the body can do. It's like saying the stupid kid in class has to wait 5 minutes before writing an exam because he is stupid. The stupid kid should have the ability to start the exam as everyone else.
According to my understanding, it is stated that there would be one fixed height( 3 height choices would be there to choose though) but in no way that fixed height would make taller players happy and for shorter players, it is much more convenient. They would not be given fault even if they keep their serve at chest height (when the height is fixed and same for both taller and shorter player in doubles). Instead they could follow the following. At the maximum, a court can have only 4 players(that too, only for doubles). Why can't they provide an adjustable height length for all the 4 players on court (automatically it has to choose the correct height for corresponding server on court), provided their heights are set during the start of the match. It has to change according to the server. Sent from my SM-G600FY using Tapatalk
Implementing the waist height for each player would be insanely difficult. Besides, I already pointed out it CAN be done so that tall players are also satisfied. 'To address the tall guy can't serve problem, we should set a height where the tallest athlete (kolding) can serve comfortably, e.g. 1.15/1.2m. Shorter guys should be able to serve from where tall guys can at 1.15/1.2m. ' As said earlier, I also don't think it's fair for shorter players with the current rules.
No sir. It would NOT be insanely difficult. And you don't fix anything by suddenly allowing small players to start serving insanely overhand/high serves?! I'm pretty sure the tall players will not be happy if the rule goes: You can serve as you use to, your opponents can raise their serves 20 cm. As for it not being fair, that tall players can hit the serve higher, I can't follow your logic. You think it's fair and natural that they can hit all other shots higher, but you don't consider the serve a shot like any other? I guess tennis is a very unfair game to you then? ---- I think the biggest issue with the proposed rule, is that there will be two different serves allowed for a large part of the players. It will depend upon a service monitor machine being available or not. In some tournaments (and on some courts), the old serve will be the rule. In others the new serve. This, IMHO, is crazy... Forcing players to alternate between serve rules, and fans/recreational players to follow other rules that the pros. It's not necessary. They simply need to make the machine work in 3 different heights during a match, and load player heights into it. It's not rocket science. I'm a senior IT developer and engineer myself, I bet I'd be able to make this interface fairly simply. It's a matter of willingness. (Unless the height choices come from physical positioning of the apparatus, in which case you'd need a small motor to adjust it automatically between rallies). Cheers, FB
How do I not fix anything? I just made it fair! I don't care if tall guys aren't happy, that's not my problem. There is a difference between the serve and the jump smash as I already mentioned before. One is due to natural ability, the other is an artificial limitation based on body shape. I don't watch tennis, but go ahead and explain to me how tennis is unfair in that sense. Do they limit how high you can play regular strokes based on your height? Quoting myself: 'Their natural advantage is that they can smash steeper, or for basketball guys shoot from a higher position. This sort of natural advantage is fine, as it represents what the taller body can do. The natural advantage of height should not apply to the serve. The serve is basically saying short guys are forced to have a less effective shot due to the shape of their body, not what the body can do. It's like saying the stupid kid in class has to wait 5 minutes before writing an exam because he is stupid. The stupid kid should have the ability to start the exam as everyone else.' What I am saying is the practicality. You start measuring up everyone's waist (don't know how girls feel about that). With the current level of PC crap, people will start yapping about everything. Also, what if the person tiptoes before serve, wears taller shoes, and is still growing? What is the service limit then? Implementing the code is not difficult even if you did all possible heights, I'll easily agree with you on that.
>> I just made it fair! I don't care if tall guys aren't happy You have an odd definition of fair? We have the basic rules of badminton. Now BWF would like to have a machine help them monitor those rules, but due to a non-imaginative implementation of said machine, they will in effect CHANGE the rules, and remove an advantage for taller players while giving one to the smaller players - only mid-sized players will not be affected. THAT is not fair. Because it's not like BWF wants to change the rules of badminton itself, it's only for matches played at the top level, due to this machine's limitations. I'd bet you any amount, that if a machine existed, which could officiate correctly and efficiently within the current rules, BWF would have jumped at that. >> don't know how girls feel about that >> It's like saying the stupid kid in class has to wait 5 minutes before writing an exam because he is stupid Really? This is pure nonsense. >> The natural advantage of height should not apply to the serve. Why not? It's a shot like any other, and the current rules that have been implemented for more than 100 years DO in fact say you have a natural height advantage. >> The serve is basically saying short guys are forced to have a less effective shot due to the shape of their body, not what the body can do Like on the jump smash and any other shot for that matter, if you are tall, you can hit the shuttle higher. If you are agile, you can move faster. If you are small, you can probably do better overhead return shots, etc. I can't think of any other sport, where you rule out a natural body advantage like this.
You make it WAY more complicated than it has to be. Say you just go ahead with the current limitations of the machine - it has 3 or 4 heights. You don't need all sorts of detailed measurements, all you need is a measurement pole with two colored bands of 10 cm, that you place next to each player, take a look at them, and say: "You are category 2 height", "You are category 3 height", etc. All you need is ONE measurement of each player in the top 100, which you record. It would take two persons less than two hours to measure an entire super series field. It's not a fraction as complicated as measuring the weight of boxers and other martial art competitors. This is a walk in the park.
It is one major problem we disagree on here. This is the only point I care about: Why should short players have a disadvantage based on their body shape when they are physically able to execute the same shot? Name me one other sport that has this. I don't call this fair. You can have all the arguments other than this, because I don't really care so much. But here are my opinions anyway. You can attack stuff by calling nonsense, but it isn't a really good attack esp when you take it out of context. The rules from history aren't fair, the fact it being there for 100 years doesn't mean it's fair. I've already agreed with you in my previous post it's not difficult to implement a machine. Practical implementation is annoying not due to actual machine implementation, but social rules where people are offended by everything. Also, implementation affects other problems as I mentioned. E.g. You are also effectively removing the option of tiptoeing to serve now. Fernaldi at 165cm needs to tiptoe to serve. Now with your rules, it is even more difficult for him. I'm at 172cm, and I do tiptoe.
I think CHN XD is developing very well now, at the German Open GPG today, the XD final was contested by Zhang Nan/Li Yinhui and Lu Kai/Huang Yaqiong with the former pair emerging champion in their 4th tournament together having won the Macau Open GPG last December. In WD, while CHN has a very promising and outstanding young pair in Chen Qingchen/Jia Yifan, they still need at least a second WD pair just as good but not yet. Li Yinhui/Huang Dongping, Bao Yixin/Yu Xiaohan, Huang Yaqiong/Tang Jinhua, not to mention Luo Ying/Lou Yu, are just not at the same level as aforementioned and it shows in their rankings and results. I 'm hoping Tang Yuanting decides to comeback soon and forms an ace pair with one of the available WD players. MD, unfortunately,is still a work-in-progress for CHN.
I think Lu Kai is a really disappointing player. He hasnt shown any improvement or success in either MD or XD. Anybody know why Bao Yixin and Liu Cheng were separated? They had really good success for a while. I still think Zhang Nan/Zheng Siwei would be the best MD pairing. It seems pretty obvious, by why hasnt CBA tried it? ZSW is #1 in XD. Zhang Nan is Olympic gold in MD and XD. Those 2 are pretty obviously their 2 best players, combining them would be the obvious move. CBA probably thinks "they are both front court players, we cant combine them". But MD has changed so much, there isnt really a need for a dedicated backcourt player anymore. Li Yinhui seems to be gaining confidence and is playing well now. In many ways, she does play a similar style as Zhao Yunlei. I think a combination of Li Yinhui/Tang Yuanting could be devastating as well!
