Fore Hand China Jump Smash vs Scissor Kick Jump Smash?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Daniel2207, Jun 26, 2018.

  1. Daniel2207

    Daniel2207 Regular Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    Hope you are all good :)

    I had a question about the types of smashes to play in singles. I was watching a LeeChongWei match and saw that he primarily had 2 different smash types aside from the shuttle direction he had a two-footed take off to smash and land and then a scissorkick smash?

    I just wondered what the benefits and drawbacks are of each also if anyone could advise me when to play each shot over the other that would be great since I am playing singles later on today would love to implement into my game here is a match of him playing when he jumps out to his forehand corner watch how sometimes he china jump smashes and other times scissorkicks.

    Fore Hand China Jump Smash



    ScissorKick from Fore Hand Corner



    Any help would be great :) Thanks
     
    #1 Daniel2207, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  2. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    The China jump (first video) is faster, you can do it under pressure. Because the upper body does not rotate with the shot, the shot is not as fast. However, especially on the backhand site, recovery is slower. That's why you see the china jump almost exclusively on the forehand side.

    In contrast, with a scissor jump, you'll have more speed because the upper body is rotating correctly. When you land you're already taking the first step forwards, so recovery is really good. On the downside, it takes some time to get to the back, so the scissor jump is not an option when put under pressure.

    There are other options, too: If you have plenty of time (e.g. high forehand serve), you can just walk, and then either hit on the ground or hit a jump smash. Apart from the serve, this is rare in singles, because a good opponent will always try to pressure you somewhat.

    And if there's absolutely no time and you need to take the shuttle low, even a China jump is too slow. In these circumstances, you simply stay on the ground. For an example, see the opponent at 2:12 in the video. But you'll have less power, and recovery is atrocious, so the only sensible shot is a longline clear.
     
  3. Daniel2207

    Daniel2207 Regular Member

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    That's is helpful so would you say when hitting the China jump you are going for angle and precision appose to power with the scissorkick smash?

    What would you recommend I hardly use the China jump would you recommend trying to implement?
     
  4. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    No, I wouldn't say it like that; with a China jump you are more limited in your options. Really, in most cases a longline clear or drop is a better option.

    Even Lee Chong Wei in the video would have been in a neutral position at most if his opponent had just deflected the smash over the net. As he is Lee Chong Wei he would probably retrieve the shuttle somehow, and probably still force the opponent to run.

    You are - presumably - not Lee Chong Wei. A smash is fine if you can finish the rally with it, but otherwise it's also somewhat risky to do from a China jump.

    Play better opponents, who will put you under more pressure!

    As long as you are able to do the China jump when needed, there is no need for additional training. The China jump is probably the simplest of all possible movements to the back of the court, and many Badminton players can do it with little training. The recovery after the China jump, and to a lesser degree the timing of the shot, are a little bit harder.

    If you want to train the China jump and are confident that you can already execute its basics, a simple multifeeding exercise is probably best, because your training partner/coach can control the speed with high precision, and put you under just enough pressure that the China jump is the best option. A simple pattern of a flat shuttle to the backcourt on your forehand side and then one to the center/backhand midcourt should be sufficient.
     
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  5. Borkya

    Borkya Regular Member

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    What's the China jump? Your body moving backwards as you smash? Obviously here in China we don't call anything a "china jump" but I've heard it a few times on these forums, haha
     
  6. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Was actually wondering about that. :) How is it called in China?
     
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  7. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I would never use this movement on the backhand side, it's kinda dangerous.
     
  8. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    The China jump is a jump to the backhand right or left, almost exclusively to the forehand side. You hit while in the air, after the highest position.

    In contrast to the scissor jump where the upper body rotates, in a China jump the upper body stays still: You start with the foot of the side you're jumping too (e.g. right foot if jumping to the right side) behind the other one, and land in the same configuration. In the video that @Daniel2207 posted, it happens at 1:12 (slow-motion thereafter):



    I hope that my description is good enough for you to tell us how it is called in China:).

    BWF calls it jump out.
     
  9. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    Can you elaborate why it would be dangerous? Do you mean tactically or from an injury standpoint?

    Especially if it's used to intercept a flat clear to your backhand side with a round-the-head forehand hit, I see little problem to it, and would prefer it to playing a backhand shot if possible.
     
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  10. khoai

    khoai Regular Member

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    China jump or block jump or side to side jump or jump out, they are all the same jump where you can't get there fast enough to do a full scissor kick jump but still want intercept the birdie high and early.
     
  11. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Injury wise, if you don’t turn your body at all you’re exerting a lot of force on your ankle and a bad angle. At least on the forehand your feet can point in the direction of the force being applied, can’t really do it on the backhand side
     
  12. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    Beeing a mostly doubles play, I can tell that I use China Jump for the backhand side as well from time to time. Not very often, but still useful. I got years ago taught to use it exclusive on the forehand side. I personally discovered that a version of China jump to the backhand is more difficult to master, but very useful for playing the backcourt during attack. I use it often when the lift of the opponent comes back fast and flat without having much time. Recovery is slower, but for a full scissor kick I have sometimes not the time and the scissor kick makes only sense when I want to rotate the attack with my partner or play a clear becauce the moment is in a forward direction which makes a side to side movement also due recovery not very effective for me. To get an impression what I mean I add this video of backcourt movement. Must start at around 2:50 I mean.

     
  13. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    From my understanding, the china jump is not the same as the block jump. The block jump is used exclusively on the forehand side, where the feet do not switch position - it is usual to land on two feet, and you can jump from either one or two feet. The block jump is normally done at the end of a movement.

    The china jump is a little different from my understanding, but on the forehand side would understandably be extremely similar. The key thing about a china jump is that you would take off and land on the same single foot. On the forehand side (for a right hander) you have your right shoulder back, right leg back, jump from the right foot upwards and backwards, land on the right foot (quickly followed by the left foot to regain balance). On the backhand side (for a right hander) you have you left shoulder back, left leg back, jump from the left foot upwards and backwards and land on the left foot (quickly followed by the right for balance). The body doesn't turn at all during the jump.

    I would agree its often called a "jump out".

    In reality, the jumps are all pretty similar, but the "china jump" used for the backhand side is quite distinctive, and normally only played by players you would consider to be extremely fast and athletic. The one on the forehand side that is basically a block jump is used all the time by most players when you either cannot get behind the shuttle or choose not to or simply prefer that movement.
     
  14. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    I think there are several definitions of the China Jump. I've also come across the nam Chasse Jump.
    What's this? Could you please explain?
    I was tought the China Jump to Jump and land with both feet. In reality that will not always happen exactly at the same time, but that's the Idea behind it, but then, maybe the words are used differently in Germany?
    When the coach shows it, he does what MSeeley says and jumps and lands with the same single foot.

    If I remember correctly, LCW also jumped and landed with both feet, but it might be different for different situations. German Wikipedia, Daniel Hoffmann (lecturer for Badminton at the SpoHo (German sports university) Köln, and the videos by Diemo Ruhnow also use or show what I learned. That's all Germans though. Found a video by Danes, but they vary (unintended) between (what they call) China Jump and (what Germans call) Handball Jump.
     
  15. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Block jump is the one used in the rear forehand corner. You normally take off from one or two feet, usually having performed a chasse movement first, and land on both feet.

    Realistically, they are all more or less the same except in my mind the China jump is where you don't really include any movement prior to the jump - you jump from base to hit the shuttle. The other jumps generally "finish" a movement and are used for various reasons.
     
  16. Borkya

    Borkya Regular Member

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    Okay, so I finally remembered to ask. In China the china jump translates to "double leg jump smash." (Jump smash translates to "single leg jump smash." --Although in Chinese the word smash is actually the word "kill" so technically the "single/double leg jump kill.")

    They thought it was very funny that other people call it the "china jump, "although one friend thought it was called the Malaysian jump, but that might just be because LCW is so good at it.
     
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  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    What's that in Chinese characters?
     
  18. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I don't see why this would be better than a flying step where it's more controlled anyway. I watched the video, and I wouldn't like to advocate doing that too much. I've done it before too, but I always considered it more of an 'incomplete flying step' than anything I'd want to use.
     
  19. Borkya

    Borkya Regular Member

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    双脚跳杀
     
  20. darrengsaw

    darrengsaw Regular Member

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    You see it quite alot in top level doubles, kowi Chandra refers to it as a one step jump here.


    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     
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