What do you guys think about a Gamma 6004 with a Wise-2086 Tensioner? Is there better bang for the buck out there? Is there a tabletop equivalent (at same performance / price ratio)?
You can check out the new StringMaster machines which should finally be available soon from Tennisman and which offer very comparable features and quality: https://www.tennisman.de/en/Other/S...AN-StringMaster-Deluxe-Electronic-oxid-1.html I've demo'ed the Deluxe SE ((and finally bought it...) a couple of weeks ago if you're interested in more details (https://www.badmintoncentral.com/fo...view-tennisman-stringmaster-deluxe-se.180440/).
May I ask if you have received, are receiving, or will receive any form of compensation from Tennisman? Both the price and the machine seem awesome, though I may ask you: (1) From a purely technical/performance standpoint how does it favorably compare to the 6004? In what aspect(s) do you think some could argue that it unfavorably compares to it? (2) I think that the 6004 has a very good track-record for reliability. Do you think that the Tennisman deluxe will compare favorably to that?
Of course you may ask. And I can tell you that there has been zero incentive or compensation from Tennisman. I haven't had the chance to test a 6004 myself yet. My recommendation was based on looking at the features only and triggered by your question regarding possible alternatives. I know that @kwun is not fully happy with the base plate construction of the 6004 and I'm sure he will add some details to that shortly. From my point of view the 6004 is a dead solid machine with only very few flaws. The StringMaster still has to prove its longterm reliability since there are only a few pre-series testing machines around yet. The OEM that manufactures those machines has also built the Yonex ST 7000 and the PremiumStringer machines in the past, so they have proven that they are able to produce high quality machines (see https://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/stringing-machine-family.180467/). Looking at the build quality and the machine parts myself, I'm not having any concerns regarding reliability. Another option that is on the market for a couple of years now would be the Superstringer T70 (https://www.tennisman.de/Weiteres/B...onic-BE-mit-premium-Standfuss-200m-Saite.html). I know, it's also a tennisman brand, but frankly, they simply offer a lot of bang for the buck. It's from a different OEM and less good-looking than the StringMaster, but imo the raw build quality is not far apart.
Of course you may ask. And I can tell you that there has been zero incentive or compensation from Tennisman. I haven't had the chance to test a 6004 myself yet. My recommendation was based on looking at the features only and triggered by your question regarding possible alternatives. I know that @kwun is not fully happy with the base plate construction of the 6004 and I'm sure he will add some details to that shortly. From my point of view the 6004 is a dead solid machine with only very few flaws. The StringMaster still has to prove its longterm reliability since there are only a few pre-series testing machines around yet. The OEM that manufactures those machines has also built the Yonex ST 7000 and the PremiumStringer machines in the past, so they have proven that they are able to produce high quality machines (see https://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/stringing-machine-family.180467/). Looking at the build quality and the machine parts myself, I'm not having any concerns regarding reliability. Another option that is on the market for a couple of years now would be the Superstringer T70 (https://www.tennisman.de/Weiteres/B...T70-electronic-Black-edition-200-m-Saite.html). I know, it's also a tennisman brand, but frankly, they simply offer a lot of bang for the buck. It's from a different OEM and less good-looking than the StringMaster, but imo the raw build quality is not far apart.
correct. the only flaw is the rather soft base plate. they have decided to use extruded aluminum instead of the often used cast aluminum or even steel base. unfortunately with the thin material there is a noticable amount of deformation and thus setback on the clamps as well as the end towers. aside from that, the remaining parts of the machine is quite solid. with the cost of a 6004 + WISE these days we are approaching the cost of a Alpha Ghost 2 (~$3000 vs. $2300) so unless you get a really good deal on the 6004/WISE I would strongly consider the Alpha Ghost for a few hundred more dollars.
Do you think that the Tennisman Stringermaster Deluxe + WISE will equal (and in some ways surpass?) the 6004+Wise? (i.e. that you would string just as well and fast with it as on your 6004, and that it will last as long) Or do you still think that your 6004/Wise is still a tad better/faster? In what way is the alpha ghost 2 better than the 6004/wise? Is it just that it will last longer and is more convenient? Or is it also faster (in which case how much faster do you think you'd be able to string on it)? Or is it also/just about stringing quality? (perhaps it's just that you can pre-stretch with smaller increments and such things?)
Well, while definately an issue for tennis, it is an open question for me, how visible deformation at 60lbs translates to badminton, as almost all badminton machines has some setback, several mm. The s_mair's video show it too. What is real world 27lbs clamp setback on Gamma, Superstringer, Delux in mm?
A major advantage of an integrated electronic machine clearly is the motor unit. Don't get me wrong, the WISE does a perfectly fine job for its money, but the motors of an Alpha Ghost or comparable machines are working a lot more smoothly and also don't sound so "stressed". So I'm fully with @kwun on this - if you have the budget and are determined to take your stringing seriously, then go for an Alpha Ghost or one of its siblings. Although it could be difficult to actually get your hands on an Alpha Ghost in Europe without paying a fortune for shipping, taxes, customs and that stuff. I would go one step further and say that each and every machine or clamp/base combination has a certain setback. There are several mechanical parts involved that all have a minimum play to be able to move, so this will always end up in a certain amount of play for the whole system. Just look at @kakinami's speed stringing clip with an ES5, there is some noticeable setback as well: But let's keep in mind that this will not result in a permanent tension loss since those 1-2 mm setback will be pulled again in the other direction with the next pull. Regarding the deformation issue on the Gamma turntables, I don't think this is a dealbreaker at all since it will not have that much influence on the final string job result. But still I think it's important to know what you will get yourself into before buying it. The construction with the extruded profiles clearly also has its upsides - which is a surprisingly low weight and a smooth clamp/base operation.
Yep, I am in Europe so the Alpha Ghost 2 would probably have a ~$700 markup for me. Unless it still competes favorably with that markup, I'm left comparing the 6004/WISE with the Tennisman Stringermaster Deluxe + WISE that you introduced, asking myself (in order of importance): 1) Which of them will allow for the best stringing quality, and why? 2) On which of them would a very experienced stringer string the fastest? and by how much? 3) Which of them will have most endurance and waste me least time with problems over the next 15 years? 4) Which of them will be the most convenient, and why? I'd like to buy a machine I won't have to change in the next few years (because it's close enough to the top in terms of stringing quality, speed and convenience + reliability) at a reasonable entry price. It doesn't need to be the best at anything, in for as long as it's affordably close enough to what is best (best bang for the buck in a way). The Tennisman machine looks much better, has a better entry price, and would also be more convenient to transport / stow away if necessary, but these are really lower priority points and I really wonder how both machines would compare on the 4 point above, in order of priority.
There won't be any difference in quality of the stringjob that is caused by the machine. Both have all that is needed to provide perfectly consistent results. The quality of the end result all comes down to the stringer's abilities. And before I forget to mention that again, please note that you would have to order the additional badminton kit along with the StringMaster to make it ready for badminton rackets. It consists of the longer main supports and the side support bits and is supposed to be ~70 EUR extra. It's not yet included in the Tennisman shop, but at least that was the last thing I heard and is worth mentioning imo. Again, it will be the same. They have the same tensioning system, a similar mounting system and semi-automatic clamp bases. If you're Alan Kakinami, you will nail your jobs in <20 minutes, if you're Jack Slowhand (a totally made up name!), you will cruise to 45 minutes on both. And again, there shouldn't be that much of a difference. The 6004 is on the market for several years and there haven't been any reports of major issues in terms of reliability yet. Same goes for most parts of the StringMaster (like turntable) since pretty much identical parts were used on other machines by the same OEM in the past. The only real questionmark here will be the clamp bases since they have a brand new concept and construction. Define "convenient" please! Both will not do the actual stringing for you. They have very similar features as described before, so if you prefer one or the other will most likely come down to your personal preference. To summarize again: Both machines play in the same league in pretty much all departments. So it will be your decision in the end, which one you will prefer. It's a bit like comparing a Yonex AX88D with a Li-Ning N9II and ask the question "Which one would make me play better?".
Two machines having similar technologies on paper may still not equal each other. One may operate much more smoothly for instance, or be construed in a way that makes stringing more efficient or convenient. In terms of convenience I'd think of things like machine elements getting in the way or being a bit annoying while stringing (e.g having 6 stuff holding the racket vs less, which could go in the way of your movements or wherein the strings could sometimes get "caught" while weaving) or ability / interference with the ability to have your tools right where you'd want them or stuff like that. The very fact that the Stringmaster can be transported or put away more easily is a (very minor) convenience advantage in its favor for instance. But any convenience advantage conferred upon the stringing phase would be of higher value. If a very experienced stringer would string just as well and fast on both machines and both are equally reliable and convenient, then the Stringmaster is much better bang for the buck and in that case it would be the one I'll go for (unless someone can suggest a possibly better alternative).
unfortunately you will need to find someone who is familiar with both machines. which given the geographical different distribution area for the 2 brands, can be a challenge.
I think both co-exist in Germany and Austria at least. You are both familiar with one of them, and have seen the other one on video / images + test reports. What would your gut feeling say? Which one of the two would you go for if you didn't have your current machine (and specific experience with it)?
as i said, i don't recommend the 6004. i have used the Alpha Ghost and its now discontinued cousin the Adidas stringing machine. any of the OEM cousins are recommended.
