And just to add, I really think No1 benefits from a good pre-stretch and continuous pull to prevent some of the tension loss. A stringer with a good electronic machine should be able to do this for you. They will also need to be patient and let he machine pull fully before clamping. No speed records required when doing your strings This might be why some people suggest there is huge tension loss and others say it is not that bad.
Thank you very much, but let's not get TOO excited. Goat (as in the farm animal) may be closer to the truth than you think. Our State Senior Olympics resembles the actual World Olympics only in the fact that it shares the word "Olympics". It's just an excuse for a bunch of old guys who still like to participate in competitive games to get together and play against same-age competitors in many different sports. "Senior Olympics" sounds better than "Geriatric Has-Been's Who Can't Really Compete Anymore But Imagine They Can". Besides, that title is too long to fit on a T-shirt! The USA National Senior Olympics is a different story, when ex college team athletes and folks retired from the actual Olympics come out to play. Winning Gold, Silver or Bronze in a State tournament qualifies you to go to the Nationals where the real party for old folks is (also where you get your brains beat out by ex-professionals) If I lived in Germany I'm sure you and I would be good friends by now, because if I lived close by I'd keep your stringing machine warm. A little off the point, but I've been a professional performing guitar player and studio musician for over 40 years now, and I've tried every guitar string worth trying, and written an article on the attributes and sound qualities of the top 6 that was well received. I'm no stranger to obsessive behavior! And BTW, the whole thing about trying to gauge string tension by the frequency has a LOT of holes in it, take it from someone who tunes strings by gauge and frequency on different guitars for a living, but that's for another discussion. "Sponge" is a very accurate description of the feel I'm getting from the BG65, like the contact with the shuttle is dampened, not providing enough information. So, would it be correct to say that NBG 99 has a little softer feel than No.1 but shares many of the same great qualities, with a little less initial drop in tension? I have another racket (Victor V4000) that has to be strung at low tension, about 22-23 lbs. Would NBG99 be better for it? I've heard No.1 doesn't do too well at lower tensions, that it gets slippery or something. So far I've been using a Yonex certified Master Stringer in Houston, Texas. I assume he is good enough for the job.
IMO in that low of a tension, if you want good feedback i guess its better to use slightly harder strings. In this case, i would recommend either BG85 or BG80P. They both have a vectran surface which is perrfect for slicing/finesse shots and both are powerful. Proabably the former since its a bit more useable at lower tensions. Agree with s_mair tho, i think you should focus on your Armortec 700.
I am focusing on the 700, but I love the feeling of the 4000 too, maybe because it was my first racket, but if my primary wears me out I grab it, and it gives up nothing to more expensive ones, because I beat players with better rackets consistently. I have to string it at less tension because it's only rated up to 22-23 lbs. max. Thinking of doing one with No.1, the other with GT5 so I can try two more strings. I like everything I've been reading about GT5 in that thread, except for it's harder feel, but maybe at low tension that won't be a problem. Then again, NBG99 is still a consideration. I'm reading as much as I can and trying to read between the lines in the opinions given about these strings. It's funny how so many people can have such different opinions about the same thing, so I try to filter all that by finding people who approximate my situation. Of course if we all used the same racket strung at the same tension this would all be a lot easier. My friend you are already using the brand of guitar strings that won my shoot-out of the best strings there are, but may I suggest, if you haven't tried them, the DR Pure Blues version was my favorite. They just had a depth and 3 dimensionality of tone that nothing from Fender, Ernie Ball, D'Addario (my previous favorite), GHS or others can match. D'Addario NY's were second. Most surprisingly, Gibson Vintage Reissue were atrocious. They sounded like a paper plate compared to the DR's. I wish I could come there for a couple of weeks to closely examine (and taste) all 3 of your "collections"
This is probably the best comparison test so far, all the same rackets, all strung at the same tension, all tested back-to-back: Their only flaw was no measure of playing characteristics over time. But I'm wondering, especially from what you guys say, that since No.1 scored very well at 3rd in this test, since it is the only string to actually get better after it breaks in, do you think it would have vaulted to #1 if the test had gone on long-term?
I wouldnt wouldnt agree entirely with that video mainly because of how low they put BG80 on. Although some of their points are valid i think that only by trying yourself will you have an accurate reading on how strings perform. Take their speed test for example, i dont know about you but if you have good and consistent technique, the speed will be much much closer together. If you go by their graph, then pretty much every pro should use aerobite boost right?..Definitely not. Secondly if in their speed test BG65 is slow then why does it have a rating of 9 in repulsion???? I mean you dont need much experience to tell what's incosistent here. All in all, even if you picked the wrong/worse string then your performance wont suddenly plummet like a waterfall, its all very objective. I know researching is a good thing but it wouldnt hurt to just try them all directly.
Oh I agree completely that in the end, you still have to try them out to find what suites you and what is the best combination for your particular racket. But because of the endless discussions about strings, where invariably one person loves abc and the next person hates abc, it's about time someone did a much more accurate test to at least knock down your final contenders to 2 or 3 strings.
Sorry for the continuous OT blabbering, but you are joking, right? After trying pretty much all of the big brands, I ended up as a long term Ernie Ball user (Beefy Slinky or Not Even Slinkys), but I always disliked those thick unwound g-strings. They sound plain dead and always intonate a little sharp on the short scale ESP Eclipse (that I've bought just recently...) - drove me nuts. Switching to a wound g-string was the first epiphany - spot on intonation no more detuning, perfectly harmonic sound over all strings. The DR ones were a lucky punch. I was looking for 12-52 or 56 sets that come directly with a wound g and ordered them (the Tite Fits) along with some others for a shootout. The brand is not very known around here, so I didn't expect much. But boy, was I surprised. I can't really put the finger on what makes them so good, but they kind of add a bit of extra warmth to the more sterile tone of the EMG pickups. Will definitely order a set of the Pure Blues ones next, thanks for the tip. They also come as 12-52 with a wound g, so an easy choice there. I'll keep you updated! Frankly, don't take those ratings too literally. Normally, it's not a big deal to exceed the rating by a couple of lbs., especially if it's a 3U racket. It's a different story if you enter the really high-tension range at >30 lbs., but I wouldn't worry a bit to go up to 27-28 lbs. with it. Especially since you obviously have an experienced stringer with good equipment at hand. The Armortec 700 is a true classic by the way, seems like a good deal to me. Personally, I'm not a big fan of those tests that end up with a ranking and scores - even if they have put a lot of effort into that one. There is just too much personal preference and feel involved that adds a lot more to the picture than some minor measurement differences (in measurements that invole a huge lot of human influence, mind you). Cause hands down, it's a lot more important that you feel comfortable and confident with a string than maybe(!) hitting a smash with 3-4 kph more or less. An example - I'm not spending a single tought if a string job is on the racket for 2 weeks or 2 months. I just know that they will perform at a comparable level. For me, it's a lot more important to have my mind at ease than missing 3% (just a guess...) of repulsion compared to fresh Aerosonic as an example. And hands down, you will not lose or win a single game more or less only because your racket has for example Aerobite Boost instead of NBG99 on it. But it can make a difference once you start thinking about or questioning your strings during a serious match. So personally, I'm looking to get an overall package that I know is working for me on a normal day. And again, the only way to find that is to do some testing and listen to what your fingers and guts are telling you on court.
I personally have a feeling that it's about the tension. They tested at 25lbs. I have personally used BG80 earlier and am trying Aerobite boost now and they have different feels at different tensions. I'm still not a very experienced player, so do take my experience with a grain of salt. BG80 allowed me to up the tension quite well before i started feeling my limits, I got to 12,8Kg (=28,2lbs) with it without any real issues. After a while the tension dropped and both the feeling and repulsion started to lessen. So for me, that string was at it's best strung a bit higher. Then I tried Aerobite boost at 12,6Kg (27,7lbs) and honestly that was too much for me, the sweetspot was noticably smaller than the BG80@12,8kg and the stringbed felt a bit too rigid. But after a few playsessions it dropped some tension and began to shine and has yet to drop to a place where i feel the need to restring. So I would conclude, that for me personally, Aerobite boost feels better at a bit lower tension and BG80 would need to be strung tighter to get the same feeling and that would explain why BG80 didn't do that well in that test.
Joint 2nd. But was conveniently placed under the brand they are trying to push as a good value alternative to the bigger brands. Both strings are sold on their website so doubt there is a massive incentive to sell one more than the other but it could have been made clearer they scored equally. The difference in top 3 scores is not that great anyway. It is a reasonably useful test with some useful objective cases but maybe extrapolate a different total score excluding the metrics that do not actually matter to your quality of play. e.g. There are no bonus points for the loudest smash in a game so exclude that. Smash speed and touch are important yet subjective. If I can win points off most of my smashes because of my powerful technique then do I really need maximum repulsion? Do I prefer control and finesse over blunt force? All this could be pointless if I only have a single racket and can't afford to string it every week, month or season so need the most durable string there is. Maybe I have really deep pockets and don't care about breaking 3 strings per game.
Another Update: I've decided to send off my V4000 to be restrung with NBG99 @ 26 lbs. Th BG65 on the AT700 is the most "blah" string I have tried, really excels at nothing, but is merely "there". I can't understand why so many people at my club use it, other than our top player does, but he also brings 10 rackets with him and can always pick up a freshly strung one. Maybe for longevity, but I'll never know about that. The honeymoon period with the Armortech 700 is over, and I think it is too head heavy, stiff, slow, and rather unforgiving with it's normal head size and sweet spot. It will be up for sale soon. I'm pretty sure my preference is for an even-balanced head with some flexibility in the shaft for more pop in wrist-snap backhand clears and smashes, but not enough to cause a lag in response in fast drive exchanges at the net or in defending fast smashes. 4UG5. For reference, I tried a friends HL Golden Dragon that felt great, but he already broke two of them and has moved on to something else (he was one of our top players but now plays noticeably worse, even after ample time to adapt to the new racket, weaker, inaccurate, less control). https://www.hlbadminton.com/hl-gold-dragon/ so I don't know if that is worth the investment, and unfortunately it doesn't compare to anything I know of by the major manufacturers. They are an American company that sells mostly to high school teams. I plan to retest the TKF as soon as the owner gets it back from restringing to see if my initial lust was justified. I wrote this elsewhere, but it pretty much describes how I play: "I play mostly fast doubles with a wide variety of people (occasional singles) and usually end up being the front guy. I'm very quick and can get to just about anything, willing to dive to the floor for a return if necessary. My full-court smash is weak, easy to return, but I value accuracy, control, feel, and speed over raw power (my smash should improve as technique develops). I guess I'm more of a technical guy, which is why I need a precise instrument. I still love my V4000, but I think torquing in the head causes inaccuracies. I love to hit straight, down-the-line, and cross-court half-court smashes right to the sidelines or your feet, have a great controlled front-outside-corner and on-the-rear-back-line serve, seem to always get involved in very fast drive exchanges right above and at the net that I try to end by hitting it faster than you can handle straight at you or cross-court, dropping it, smashing at your feet, or lifting to the back; love to hit point-winning shallow drops right over the net from anywhere on the court, and can exchange net dink drops straight and diagonal with the best of them until one of us misses. I'd like something forgiving with a large sweet spot because I am a relatively new player, but a racket I won't outgrow as I develop. Less expensive alternatives appreciated too." As usual, I've been pouring over the internet reading reviews and recommendations, and it looks like a Bravesword 12, Nanoflare 700, Astrox 88S, and Jetspeed 10S are some of the likely candidates, but I can't find any to try out. I once again try your patience with me in asking what you would recommend out of these or others you think might fit me better. Another thought, am I just taking this wayyyyy too seriously? At my level can I justify a $200+ racket over a $100 one, and will it really make THAT much of a difference? Your Help Is Greatly Appreciated and Considered.
To put this into perspective - no, it won't really bring your game to a noticeably higher level if you swing some mid-level or high-end racket. BUT, it makes a difference if they have a general spec that suits you or if you're swinging some sledgehammer (just an example) that does more harm than good. But come on, we all know that it's less about what we need and far more about what we want. And who wants middle class if you can afford the high-end? So... here we go... JS10: One of a kind racket. I've played it over three seasons as my go-to racket and loved it to bits. However, it's perhaps the most bitchy racket I've seen yet - very stiff, compact head. It can be your best friend on a good day but your worst enemy on a bad one. It's s racket that imo everyone should have played with at least once. And it has to be said that the frame of the JS10 is rather weak and tends to sink at the hole edges. BS12: A lot more flexible and user friendly than the JS10, yet comparably fast. IMO totally different feel due to the flex. I never got the hang of it but many others love it. Can't tell you much about the other two, but I'm sure that you'll find quite a lot of reviews and information on those around here. What about your TKF? Is the love already gone?
I'm not sure about the TKF, I haven't been able to put my hands on it for a while. But something I did try out tonight was an Astrox 22. It felt great! I loved the light weight but yet it felt more solid then my goto V4000. I thought the only thing holding it back was being strung with BG65. How would you rate NBG99's control and repulsion compared to BG65?
Tonight I tried a Li Niing 75i (new version of the old N7ii Lite Green/Black) racket, and loved everything about it, with only two exceptions. It was fast, accurate, and solid feeling, but I thought a touch too light for smashes and needed more flex to help those smashes and back hand wrist flick clears. It turns out the 75i is only 670mm, but there is a sister racket, the 70i (old N7ii Lite Pink) which is 675mm, which I'm thinking would give it the added flex and power I'm looking for. Didn't some of you have an N7ii? Does my thinking sound reasonable? BTW, after trying a bunch, I decided I don't like Yonex rackets at all. They feel dead and brittle like a dried-out piece of bamboo, no feeling at all.
Judging by the specifications of those rackets then yes it would make sense to go for the 70I.But both of them weigh the same 75-80g(5U). If you want something a little bit heavier while still being quick would be the Nanoflare 700 which is 80-84g(4U). Before you say Yonex rackets are numb, did it ever occur to you that it was because of the string?. After all, the string is what makes contact with the shuttle first. Usually people experienced that Yonex rackets actually provide the most feel. Since most of Yonex rackets are made with a box frame while Victor uses a Sword frame, which swings faster but is much less durable and doesnt feel like much, and Lining uses a hybrid between the two frame profiles.
Looks like you're a typical candidate for TC70 (N7II) or TC75 (N9II). Both are great and fairly easy to use all-around rackets, but I'm afraid you might have to play both yourself to see which one suits you better. Yonex rackets have a rather damped feel since they do a lot to minimize vibrations. For example, most of their rackets have the frame filled with some sort of foam, whereas the frame of the N7II for example is hollow. Many players really like the lack of vibrations in Yonex rackets. Personally, I also feel like I don't enough feedback from the impact so I never really know if I hit the shuttle in the sweet spot or not. Victor has a reputation for having the most direct feel (others call it "lots of vibrations"), Li-Ning is somewhere in the middle between Yonex and Victor.
Yes, I thought it a little risky to make such a blanket statement about Yonex rackets, but I've now tried a bunch of them. But to be fair, I think the majority of them were strung with BG65, a local favorite for some reason, and I already think that is the most "blah" string I have tried so far. So you may be right, the strings may be killing the "feel" qualities of the rackets. I tried a Astrox 22 and a Nanoray 70DX along with the LN last night. I loved the light weight of the 22 but it was stiff and lifeless, the 70 just felt wrong all around. Both had factory string, whatever it was. I found out the Armortech 700 I have is fake. Funny, but it was the best feeling "Yonex" I ever tried, and it had BG65, too. I've been reading about the NF700, but I am very hesitant now to buy a racket I can't try out first. Just like a guitar. You just can't know what it feels like until it's in your hands, no matter what anyone else or the literature says. And I really don't want to get on that conveyor belt of trying racket after racket, expense after expense chasing the Holy Grail. Been there before, cost me a fortune. But I know what I felt last night. If you tried a TKF, you might find as I did that it has loads of feel but no vibration at all. I tried it again last night as well, but it still felt head-heavy, overall heavy, too stiff, and a little slow. Otherwise fabulous. I'm chalking the feel up to maybe the Pyrofil. I thought the 75i had the same feeling, plus the feather weight of the AS22. I'm really becoming sold on the sub-80 gram rackets for my often-abused 65 year old frame, and it seems that Li Ning figured out how to get that weight but still have feel and a little power in it. The AS22 had neither.
Oh my, the factory strings for those mid-range Yonex rackets are even worse than BG65 and at, like, 18lbs tension...
as per request, guitar and audio related posts by @s_mair and @Scrench have been moved here: https://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/guitarists-badminton-central.183500/
