[VIDEO] What to focus on

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Karlos, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. Karlos

    Karlos Regular Member

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    @Obito not really - I dont play these kind of shots (if by punch clear you don't mean attacking clear). But I dont play half-smashes, because I always miss-hit or the shot is just bad - probably because of incorrect pronation as you said.

    @DarkHiatus damn, when you pointed that out, it really is like that. I watched the video several times, but didn't notice the "reverse sliced shot"... well at least I know how would I play that and also now I know how to correct the swing path! :D
     
  2. Obito

    Obito Regular Member

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    try to play practice those shot to get the idea of pronation.

    One more thing, if you want to fix your swing path, there is a practice where you practice your swing like usual, but this time stand next to a wall probably a feet or two feets away from it then practice your swing. If your racket hit the wall, it means your swing was too big and wasnt go in straight line.
     
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  3. Karlos

    Karlos Regular Member

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    Hi! So it has been 1 year and a few months since I started playing badminton - really fell in love with the sport :) Anyways, I decided to make another video from my training session again. I have been really trying to work on my smash/drop/clear swing, doing a lot of practice swings at home and looking at them at slow motion and also many other stuff (better preparation, footwork etc.).



    First thing that struck me was the difference between "home swing" and that on video. I mainly focus on proper pronation, but in the video, the swing looks really bad, mechanic - but that is my swing right now. I noticed a few things:

    I'm using a lot of wrist: (wrist is bend after the stroke)
    111.JPG

    During the swing, my racket stays too much to the left and the swing path is from the lower left to upper right (path of the racket). This is my main issue and worry - I wonder why I do that - is it a lack of proper supination (in the backswing)? And because of the lack of supination, there cannot be proper pronation and that is why I am using too mush wrist co compensate? It feels like I just push the hand together with my elbow towards the shuttle.

    222.JPG

    So as always, I hope you can find a second of your time to analyze the video and comment on some things that would help me. I thing the main issues are clearly visible in the first section of the video during smashes - even I can see that there is something bad happening, but I just cannot figure it out.

    Thanks! Karlos.
     
  4. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Well spotted regarding the swing path. It is mainly due to your ready position being too far left of the shuttle, so your arm/elbow MUST swing from bottom left to top right. You can see it because you are visibly jumping from left to right in a lot of the strokes. The ideal motion when you take a smash you're expecting should only have a forward component to the jump!

    If you just stopped short of swinging, the shuttle would land to the right of both of your feet for most of the forehand side shots, and maybe in line with your right foot for a couple of the better ones (where the diagonal swing path is less pronounced). The only way to get it straighter is for that shuttle to be in line with your feet/shoulders.

    You might wonder how on earth you can hit it downwards when it's rift above your head/shoulders, instead of slightly out to the right. It's because you also need to be 0.5-1ft or so further behind the shuttle, then you have the space to get the angle downwards without doing the wristy flicking thing you're describing.

    Hope this makes sense!
     
  5. Karlos

    Karlos Regular Member

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    Thanks! Definitely makes sense. I can see that my position is not really ideal for the forehand shots. Also when I play an overhead from my backhand corner, the shot feels and looks much better compared to the forehand ones.

    Just to add to this - when I looked at some pro's playing their shot a little bit too much to the left of the shuttle (my situation), their swing almost always looks "normal" with correct path, even though their position is like mine - example here - shuttle A LOT to the right, but the swing path is more or less from bottom to top with a little left to right (just a screenshot, but you can see the position of the racket before hitting the shuttle)

    111.JPG

    What looks like my shot on the other hand is this shot right at 3:52 timestamp. It is a dropshot, but the swing path looks a lot like mine (no backswing?)


    So apart from my positioning which I have to definitely correct, may the problem also lay in: 1. No supination during the backswing? 2. No backswing at all? 3. Hand moving at the same time with elbow? 4. ???

    Badminton is hard :)
     
  6. GingerCorslette

    GingerCorslette Regular Member

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    Post a vid of an actual game :)
     
  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    After you hit the shuttle on an overhead shot, make your right arm follow through to under your left arm.
     
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  8. Karlos

    Karlos Regular Member

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    Hello, so here is my latest video from my training session (doing come clears, drops, smashes etc).
    What I've been focusing lately - better use of non-racket arm, better preparation of racket arm, being more relaxed. Still lacking quite a lot in these.



    What I see in the video - clears look much better than the smashes - maybe because of better follow through? My smashes look quite weird, like brute-forced, not fluid or something like that - I can also see that I am using a lot of wrist and overall looks like I only use the arm, but I was also focusing lately to start with the hip movement. It almost look like I am not doing much pronation, but then how would I hit the shuttle straight down with correct grip? (at least I hope my grip is OK now, been experimenting with it quite a lot). The thing is - I can see the things that look off and wrong, but I am not sure 1. why that happens and 2. whats the best way to fix it.

    Thanks for your suggestions and input!

    Karlos.
     
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  9. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    You're not quite getting far enough behind the shuttle, so your contact point is above/behind you, rather than in front of you. Your ready stance posture is good just before you hit the shuttle, other than the fact that your need to be 1-2 ft further back in the court to get a good contact point in the shuttle for a smash.

    The main reason I can see is your racquet carriage. From your base position, you swing your racquet out low and wide out to your forehand side, before raising it up behind you. This means you only move the minimum distance to hit the shuttle, rather than the ideal distance to hit the shuttle well. Other negatives are that you'll be less balanced and also take longer to get into your ready position (particularly bad if your opponent plays a flatter lift/clear).

    The ideal method is to bring your elbow straight up as you move backwards - the racquet head should be in your peripheral vision the whole time. Watch videos of Jonathan Christie for a good example, particularly when he moves to the round the head corner - he always brings it straight up, which helps him guide his body into a good position for a smash. Only when he is ready does he then make his backswing and strike the shuttle.

    Before you tell me Lin Dan (and sometimes LCW) have a low carriage: 1) they didn't always, and 2) they are so experienced and know exactly where they need to be that they don't find any benefit in it when they have lots of time. They still bring it straight up in response to a flat lift/clear or interception!
     
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  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    You need to go back to earlier posts in this thread.

    @MSeeley wrote the angle at your elbow should be less than 90 degrees when you have the racquet in the ready position behind you. You are not doing this all the time especially when preparing for the smash.

    @DarkHiatus is correct. When you pull the racquet from in front of you and raise it behind you, your right arm first makes a circular path outwards low and to the right of your body. This is poor technique. @BadBadmintonPlayer brought this point up on 20th January this year in page 1 of this thread. “1. Your preparation is crazy...”.

    Do this exercise: stand next to wall, with the right side of your body next to the wall carrying the racquet. Have 30cm of space between the wall and the right side of your body. Now swing your racquet as if it were a clear. Don’t let your right arm touch the wall when you pull it back behind your body. This is the same exercise that @Obito wrote about on 22 January.
     
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  11. Karlos

    Karlos Regular Member

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    @DarkHiatus @Cheung thank you both, your input is very helpful to me. As I said in my last post, I am quite aware of my preparation step, that's why I have been focusing on that lately (both arm movement and positioning during preparation for overhead shots). But I have been thinking "get the racket arm up behind me", not thinking about the elbow or the arm path or speed from base position. I also tried the drill you and @Obito mentioned, that was my swing feel really a lot different - I will try to train this much more now, it sounds like the perfect drill for my current situation.

    I have a question about what @DarkHiatus said -
    - I cannot figure out what does the (preparation)swing path have to do with the distance I moved - like, if I make a correct preparation, I would naturally get behind the shuttle more? How so? (and I dont ask in a bad way, it's just that I really don't understand this)
     
  12. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    People (especially amateurs) subconsciously judge the shuttle contact point by the position of their racquet by roughly pointing to the shuttle with the racquet head. If the racquet is further back, then people will not move their body as far back as if the racquet is further forward in a preparation position. This limits the angle they can achieve on a stroke.

    Another common tip that coaches use to override this habit in students is to get students to point at the shuttle with their non-racquet hand. This ensures they must be further behind the shuttle, otherwise they'd be pointing directly upwards or even backwards if done wrong. A common complaint is that the racquet head feels 'too far away' from the shuttle, which is due to it starting too far back/not coming straight upwards.

    Just in reference to your video - if your training partner is lifting shuttles to the rear tramlines (even the doubles line) with that high trajectory, the correct position to prepare for a smash will bring one, or even both, your of feet outside the back of the court. Your feet are both inside the doubles line most of the time...perhaps your training partner is not lifting them that far, but it looks like he is not far off ;) a general guide is that the shuttle should land no further back than your non-racquet foot in your ready position. It's an easy test, just get your partner to feed, get ready to smash it, then stop and see where the shuttle lands. If it's further rearcourt than your non-racquet leg, you are too far forward. I would expect a good number of these shuttles to be landing near your racquet foot.
     
    #32 DarkHiatus, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  13. Karlos

    Karlos Regular Member

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    Hello again after a couple of months and Happy New Year to everyone! :)

    Apart from december (been ill) I've been training quite a lot - main focus was racket carriage, preparation and preparation swing path - these things were mentioned here a lot, so I wanted to make them much better. Apart from that I also tried to focus on a more fluid / relaxed body movement and footwork.

    When I compare this video to the last one, I can see that the preparation is much better (or at least I hope it is) and that helped me quite a lot in a lot of strokes. They feel much better now. The circular swing path is still there sometimes, so I need to keep tat in mind every training I have, but I would also like to focus on a better pronation right now. I feel like I am still using too much wrist (in a bad way) and not that much pronation.

    The video is from my latest training (1.1.2020) and contains drops to the center, drop/net/lift drill with random number of net shots and lastly a few smashes.



    As always, any feedback is greatly appreciated!
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    What I see is when your training partner serves, you don't have the circular swing path. But almost every other overhead shot has the swing out path.

    When you shadow the technique, try to make sure your right hand (holding the racquet) passes close to your right side of your head and ear before going behind you.
     
  15. Karlos

    Karlos Regular Member

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    I will try to focus on that today, thanks for the tip.
     
  16. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Had another look. Also when you hit the shuttle, and just after the follow through, your elbow is locked in full extension. That makes it look quite stiff and unnatural.
     
  17. Karlos

    Karlos Regular Member

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    Me and my partner had our first session with a new trainer this monday - he asked how he could help us. We both agreed that if he could look at our general stroke that would be the best. We then had our warp-up routine and he immediately said that our stroke is very forced by the arm, not very light. He said that our grip is good position-wise, but we hold the racket quite strong all the way through (preparation and swing) and that we lack proper pronation. So we had a bunch of drills for light hold of the racket and snapping at the right moment to "force" (not as it sounds) pronation. So the main points he told us was: very light holding of racket, elbow high up during swing, snapping action (not wrist, but forearm rotation) at the contact point and that the whole swing should be in a straight line. We then tried clears, drops and smashes for the rest of the training session.

    I have to say, it was very different feeling trying to do those things from my usual stroke (and it was quite hard too :rolleyes:). The most weird thing for me was that with such a light hold of the grip and then snapping the grip ended up like a very bad hammer grip after every stroke (apart from drops) - I will try to post a photo later. But the clears felt really effortless, drops were quite hard for me to control the length and smashes... well we have to train those more :D. But overall I felt like this really helped us in the right direction. Also my hand a palm now hurts (muscles) like never after badminton lol.

    And so @Cheung would you recommend slightly lower contact point and a lesser angle between arm and racket? As my arm is quite in line with the racket. Maybe now it will be different, I'll have to see on video with this new swing.
     
    #37 Karlos, Jan 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    If after, just after hitting the shuttle, your arm relaxes, then it should bend naturally. Probably you were gripping too hard all the way through the stroke. It’s quite a common problem.

    other suggestions would be to re-examine the size of your grip. If the circumference is very large, one effect is to hold the handle very strongly all the time.

    another thing you can do is make the very end of the butt of the racquet slightly wider so that it flares out slightly. I do this with all my racquets. This helps my fifth finger feel the end of the racquet better and have more confidence that the racquet will not slip out of my hand during a swing. This helps me a lot because using a relaxed grip, I always get a bit concerned that the racquet will fly out of my hands during a swing.
     
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  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I think if you can do the video from directly in front of you, (place the camera at the net), you can see things much more clearly.
     
  20. Karlos

    Karlos Regular Member

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    This is a video as you suggested from today. The only focus I had was 1. Holding grip lightly, 2. Elbow up and forward during swing, 3. Pronation and 4. More pronation.

    Overall when I look at the video I am not quite satisfied... (especially with the clears, they were kind of effortless, but a lot wrong there), but some of the smashes had much much better pronation than any other in my previous attempts (videos), to that's a start.

    Also I stand in the middle so I can watch the white line and help myself keep the swing as straight as possible.

     

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