2020 Thomas/Uber cup

Discussion in '2020 Tournaments' started by Cheung, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. CLELY

    CLELY Regular Member

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    Everyone has different perspective. In badminton, team event is prestigious tournament meanwhile tennis...don't think that Davis/Federation/Hopman Cup have same leverage with Four Grand Slams.
     
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  2. CLELY

    CLELY Regular Member

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  3. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I beg to disagree, when a number of the top 8 teams are absent for justifiable reasons, it defeats the purpose of going ahead without their participation - the 1980 and 1984 Olympics are a different issue, both cases were politicized which went against the spirit of the Olympics.

    My suggestion indicates that the event is held under special circumstances for which it will be remembered as such, caused by a global pandemic, and doing so does serve its purpose, thus leaving the original Thomas/Uber cups intact. Basically, it's for the same reasons the Tokyo 2020 Olympics was postponed so as not to tarnish its status in addition to putting the health and safety of the athletes in topmost consideration.

    Besides, winning a largely diminished truncated major world event is not what most world-class athletes would relish or cherish,I believe. That's my opinion. I mean, when even the Tokyo Olympics 2020 can be postponed/canceled, why not the Thomas/Uber Cups?
     
  4. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    It's commendable for Denmark to want to go ahead with holding it at first, but as circumstances have changed with a substantial number of teams and players pulling out , that itself should be taken into serious consideration for a rethink.

    Every team champion/titleholder wants to take pride and be admired in being a well-deserved, widely-recognised, fully respected, highly regarded,and unquestionably victorious winner, otherwise, the title is not worth its weight in gold, so to speak.
     
  5. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Well, Denmark wanted to hold it because Badminton has been put off for too long a time. Lets just let the winner enjoy. No one steals anything from other , why will it be tarnished. The OG is a different thing because it involves 30-40 sports. This is just badminton.

    When its done, its done. Lets enjoy it even if its just team event and the 1st tournament in a while. No one remembers how many times INA won the ThomasCup even though i support INA (i dont remember is it 12 13 or 14) , im not so crazy about the team event. Doubt people remember how many times CHN won the Sudirman Cup when they see this. Does it makes the past tournaments super lousy if people dont remember it? I dont really think so as well.
     
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  6. kurako

    kurako Regular Member

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    The principal contenders for the respective titles are still in the fray; accordingly, whichever country prevails will be a deserving champion. As far as I am concerned, kudos to Denmark for going out on a limb to stage the Cup; this is a moment that both fans and many players have been seriously yearning for.

    Bird Japan, incidentally, has been given the green light (Government permission was sought) to participate in the Thomas/Uber Cup, and, currently, the A Team are attending their first national training camp since the All England. It will be fascinating to see what shape everyone is in. Actually, we could be in for a couple of major upsets.
     
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  7. sen

    sen Regular Member

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    Not just the winner enjoy, I think those who choose to participate will enjoy it. For them, it is probably better than just practice. For some who did not take part, many things come into consideration, like the distance to travel, the costs and some probably just feel another month of training to get back to peak is what they need.

    Well, some of the top 10 countries did not take part but then in the past it is only 8 countries for Thomas/Uber cup and at that time, there are some good players who can't take part because the countries did not qualify as there are only 1 good player from the country. Yes, it is often not about the best players or the best team but the spirit of the participant. Sometimes, there are young players coming from nowhere becoming heroes or world no 1 who can't handle the pressure of team competition that makes this memorable.
     
  8. CLELY

    CLELY Regular Member

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    Well, I guess no need that we're debating continuously whether TUC it's less prestigious or important without participation of A, B, C, D...
    As badminton fans we'll enjoy the restarted of BWF tournament after unprecedented long break :)

    Badminton Denmark tweeted about TUC participants :
     
  9. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    tell that to all the '80 & '84 gold medal winners wherein they would not have won gold if the usa, ussr and eastern bloc countries had been there. i was at the '84 games in los angeles. nobody — fans and athletes — gave a rat's ass the ussr wasn't there, even though they would've dominated and won many gold medals. i'm certain nobody missed the usa's attendance @ the 1980 moscow games either. in fact it presents an athlete with an opportunity you worked your whole life towards.

    do you think axelsen relishes his 2020 all england title any less because momota wasn't there? and that ain't even a wc or olympic title. do you think okuhara cherishes her 2017 world title any less because tai tzu-ying — who dominated 2017 — wasn't there? what about pv sindhu's 2019 world title in the absence of carolina marin?

    the winners don't care about who didn't show up... for whatever reason.
     
  10. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Axelsen and Okuhara definitely deserve it and that is with top player missing (WR1 player in fact) while This is just Taipei/Thai who have little to no chance to be Champ in a 'Team Event' anyway. Thai & Taipei also probably thinks its team event and not worth the risk even though everything is paid by Denmark from air travel to accomodation. They dont even need to do quarantine last i heard. Even if lost 1st round, players dont lose anything. Even the ensuing DenmarkOpen wont cut any players past ranking points.

    and if wanna talk about remembering , for some reasons we wont remember who is ranked 2nd in WC as well.. who remembered LiuXL / QiuZH ever reach WC Final? even if thats the only thing they ever achieve(They even won 1 major titles i believe) people mostly dont remember it (which is sad,isnt it?).. but its WC and people should remember it lol. ( who d remember someone who never won more than 10 titles)
     
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  11. Baddie lover

    Baddie lover Regular Member

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    I agree to what you've said. The winners will always cherish the medals/championships won no matter some top athletes participate there or not. However, there'll always be a talk "what if x participant was there, could he/she win the championship". This talk is always started by fans. I feel Thailand and Taipei teams withdrawals will definitely take some sheen away from TUC. But hey, it's those teams' choice and their decisions shouldn't affect other teams who are willing to put in the risk to travel to other countries and play for the championship.

    Let's say only four countries are playing - India, Germany, Russia and Canada. All other top countries have backed out. India wins both Thomas and Uber cups. Will I be excited that they won the championship? NO. Will that change the fact that India have won Thomas and Uber Cups? NO. I would definitely want my team to win with all top contenders playing and if those contenders are not playing, we should respect the team who has won the championship rather than asking questions like WHAT IF. That's just my opinion. Anyways, hoping no other teams withdraw and all players and officials are safe to and fro the trip.
     
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  12. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Also there might be huge upset. Even Milwaukee Bucks , 1st seed , who is head above the rest got in the east trashed 1-4 by MiamiHeat. In sense, badminton is more of an individual sport in a TeamEvent, so theres probably higher chance of upsets galore.

    Teams can hardly find their form even they are already 1 month into the bubble, let alone this will be the 1st tournament. Somehow, it might be nice if Denmark won it as home team. Kudos to them the tournament is held.
     
  13. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Obviously, you didn't get my point, the 1980 and 1984 Olympics boycotts were about politics and it wasn't something the IOC was amenable to , and regardless what the remaining participating athletes thought, it still went against the spirit of the Olympics, not to mention the absence of a sporting powerhouse inevitably diminished the prestige and status of the world's grandest stage.

    I don't know about Axelsen but it certainly wouldn't stop many from thinking and saying the AE'19 title wouldn't be his had Momota been present. Besides,Momota's absence was due to injury caused by a road accident, and he's the only one of the favourites who withdrew. As for Okuhara, I suggest you go check what she said post-tournament about Tai Tzu Ying's absence, something to the effect that she might not have won it had TTY participated; furthermore, TTY's reason for skipping the WC'17 drew quite a bit of flak here in this forum (you might like to find out if she regretted her decision for she also failed to win the following two world championships, and is still without a major title till today despite her near dominance). As for P V Sindhu's case, Marin 's absence was also owing to injury, which couldn't be helped and she was the only notable favourite forced to withdraw.

    For this Thomas/Uber Cup, we're talking about an unprecedented situation brought about by a global pandemic and multiple withdrawals from a number of the top 8 teams and players on justifiable grounds, the impact is greater than the few individual cases you quoted above, What's more, like I've said, when even the much grander Tokyo Olympics is forced to postpone the quadrennial multi-sport world event after a few nations threatened to pull out, I see no reason why not the TUC, a lesser though still major single discipline sport event.

    I would say it's not so much how the eventual winners or individual main contenders for the titles feel, it's more about how the wider sport community feel about the matter. Still, my personal belief is every champion worth their salt do not feel good about any skeptical doubt entertained by their fans or others regarding their titles won, the inner satisfaction is just not there. Ask yourself, which World and/or Olympic champions have captured your fulsome praise, undoubted recognition, deepest respect and utmost admiration ,and which ones are forgettable, hardly mentioned, even quietly ignored even though they won the coveted titles through no fault of their own due to the non-participation of the hot favourites for whatever reasons.

    Take Chen Jin's case. He won the Paris WC 2010 beating Taufik Hidayat in the title bout after both LCW and Lin Dan crashed out in the quarterfinals. Imagine, had either LCW or Lin Dan or both withdrew before the start of the championship, what then? I'm sure I needn't have to spell it out. But the fact of the matter is none of the top contenders and hot favourites were absent, all the best of the best were present, and though he won the world title without meeting either LCW or LD through no fault of his own, yet till today there are murmurings to the effect that he was lucky, that he won by fluke, and other what-ifs , etc. Let's face it - how many of us truly regard him as the unarguable world champion, indubitably? What about Ji Xinpeng, the Sydney 2000 gold medalist, remember him?

    That's just my opinion. Just a friendly exchange of views.We can agree to disagree.
     
  14. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Well, at first I thought THA, TPE, and mistakenly thought MAS too (Lee Zijia, recovered from injury? and who else was injured?) pulled out, KOR (whom I now realized didn't pull out, somebody gave me the wrong info) , and including some top players, such as Sindhu , who later changed her mine, opportunistically. So in the end , it was THA, TPE and AUS who withdrew and no replacements.

    We can't rule out the possibility of TPE (what with TTY and CTC, etc) and esp THA, the 2018 runner-up, causing some upsets. However, if most of the teams have confirmed their participation and the tournament proceeds without a hitch (minus the absence of spectators), I guess there is some positive to it under the unforeseen circumstances despite there being not a full star-studded cast in attendance to take the shine off a major team world championship.

    Let's hope for the best and wish the tournament a success.
     
    #94 Justin L, Sep 9, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  15. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Well some players are simply not star materials.

    Whether they got lucky or not, if that is their only title or 2, WC and OG , doubt people will remember..Let it be their most beautiful memories because once in a while, they deserve it even if its probably Luck.

    Even then , it is long time ago 00 or 07 , Now, whod remember LiuCheng or HokiKoba/ RianAgungSaputro.
     
  16. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    and bwf is not amenable to this situation, which is my point: it's up to the owner/organizers for whatever reasons they have. they certainly could cancel it but they aren't. therefore the 'title' is legitimate for 2020. i'm not debating whether it's right or wrong.
    actions speak louder than words. an athlete can acknowledge it at the time, however, has any athlete ever refused any benefit they received as a result of winning a title and/or gold medal because <insert athlete/team here> was not there? cash, cars, property, endorsement deals, lifetime pension, etc.? if they genuinely cared they should refuse. again, actions speak louder than words. what fans and history remember is irrelevant to the winner. if it was why even play a tournament if <insert athlete/team here> wasn't there? if you have no chance of winning why play at all?

    as an athlete i wouldn't care. the time/effort/work i put in towards my life's achievements are not held hostage by the lives of others. i have no control over them. as a fan i don't care either. it's merely entertainment.

    what if you won olympic gold but the obvious dominating powerhouse team/athlete wasn't there? i don't care what you say in the post-game interview. what would you do with your 'bonuses', and why?
     
  17. Baddie lover

    Baddie lover Regular Member

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    Wikipedia 2017 World Championship and 2019 World championship.
     
  18. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    the internet remembers so we don't have to. ha!
     
  19. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    jahaha
     
  20. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Well, to each his own, but I'm quite sure sports fans and commentators are likely to have a different perspective from the athletes, not to mention sports writers and historians as well as former greats who (are asked to) express their personal opinions and views. And we often hear of the retired players in their old age reminiscing of the past with a tinge of regrets, lamenting the what-ifs, if only, I wish, and suchlike, and that's when they care more about their legacy than anything.

    In a way I have to admit that as far as the professional athletes are concerned, practical considerations relating to their career and livelihood usually take precedence over other life goals, not that they can help it. Still I feel the organizers and governing bodies should look at the larger picture beyond the individual needs, wants and interests of the professional athletes though admittedly their hands are tight and are sometimes forced to act within constraints and circumstances beyond their control, such as this global pandemic, where nobody is sure what the outcome might be as to the decision whether to go ahead or put on hold an important international event after taking calculated risks, weighing the pros and cons and balancing the short- and long-term goals for the benefit of all.

    Let's see how it goes.
     

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