Improving footwork and technique

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by AldrichAxelson, Feb 16, 2022.

  1. AldrichAxelson

    AldrichAxelson Regular Member

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    Hi, im M/ 28 y/o, 5'6", BMI 29.5, i would put myself as low intermediet skill wise, but movement and stamina would be high beginner. I play doubles, but would also like to train for singles to enhance stamina.

    What i lack:
    1. Swiftness (as i gain 14 kg during this pandemic)
    2. Proper footwork for doubles, focusing on offense-defense formation change
    3. Form- i saw a video of how i play, for smashes particularly: 1. I cant jump since i have a bad knee 2. I feel that my smashes could be faster

    Is there a video on how to improve footwork, skills, proper form that suit my predicament?

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  2. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    That is a common missconception.
    1. You don't need to jump to hit a hard smash.
    2. A smash is seldomly hard at all.

    The primary goal of a smash is to reduce the reaction time window, nothing more, nothing less. So, even a very powerful smash is easily defendable if your opponent is in the right position at the right time. The shuttle will lose a lot of speed over a longer traveling period (still milli seconds/few seconds), so that it is not really hard to defend a smash, the real and only danger of a smash is , that you don't have the time to react and move to a proper defensive position. So placement is 80% , power is 20%.

    A very short/steep smash will leave your opponent with an extremely small reaction time window, so that he isn't even able to raise his racket, but this is not really the goal of a smash, but a finishing stroke when your opponent wasn't able to lift/clear deep enough.

    A good placed half-smash is much better than a fullpower jump smash right on your opponents racket face.

    So, you don't need to jump at all and use placement over power.
     
  3. AldrichAxelson

    AldrichAxelson Regular Member

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    I agree with you on not needing to jump to hit a hard smash. But it is often needed to do a lateral jump (china jump) during doubles, and this will result in landing on 1 foot, also scissor kicks usually have a little jump.

    Anyway, do you have any recommendation on footwork for left and right movement, drills, how fast should i arrive at the ready position during offense to defense rotation?
    Tq

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  4. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    Here are two badminton technique related channels, where you will find a lot of quality stuff:



    You don't need a china jump or a scissor kick, they only get really mandatory at higher level play. Yes, if you are able to master them, it is worth it, but if you ruin your knees or whatever, then is it still worth it ? I play with several older people (one a senior world champion in mixed double in his age bracket) and there is none jumping around any longer, still they play good and enjoy the sports a lot. Don't target internation level gameplay or high league gameplay from start. Get into badminton, when you are still young, then your body will adapt accordingly and you will be able to test out jumps etc later on. Give your body some time to adapt.
     
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  5. AldrichAxelson

    AldrichAxelson Regular Member

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    Awesome, thank you very much, great tips

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  6. BadmintonDave

    BadmintonDave Regular Member

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    Get your knee seen to. Badminton is very intense on knees and ankles. Most movement as you can see from the great videos linked above is Split step > Chasse step > optional other step > Swing Racquet + end footwork > Prepare for next shot / return to central base if required.

    I ruined my knee a bit a long time ago in a mismatched game with the old scoring system. The game lasted well over 20 minutes and I had to do a lot of lunges to the right. My knee hasn't been the same since, but it's gotten to a point I can play on it and drive my car etc normally.

    Definitely start with footwork. Getting to a shot fast gives you more attacking options and time to see what your opponent(s) are doing.
     
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  7. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Interesting idea I haven't heard that before.

    So do you have any video of the kind of level of game that is the highest that wouldn't involve a scissor kick?

    I'd like to see a footwork video showing the alternative to the scissor kick!

    So if the shuttle goes behind you straight, and you can't get behind it to "step through", then are you suggesting hitting it with the racket foot back and chasseing back in towards the base? Stepping towards the base? It would be a bit slow. Would be interesting to see.

    And if the shuttle is on the RTH side then a backhand?

    Any video for people that don't want to scissor showing the footwork?
     
  8. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    He is a beginner, he has potential fear for his knees/ankle/health, he want to play badminton.

    At this level, we are most likely speaking about hobby/school level, he will not need it yet. At league level it will get necessary, but not yet. Let him get into badminton, see how it evolves for him and then he could build up on this. Not everyone want to be a league player, I think, that the majority of players are not league players and that a very high percentage of these players aren't club players at all.

    Even at our club, we have two groups, one who only play it at hobby level and a second group which plays in the league or are more ambiously.

    PS:when you ever observe casual players playing badminton , you will get a twitching eyelid as club/league player, but these people have fun, there's no reason to devalue their game or motivation.
     
  9. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    Maybe this one (take a look at his channel), showing a young man who loves to play badminton wihtout being in the expected shape. His movement is more passive, but he has really good racket skills, and he seems to enjoy it a lot. There's not only one way to enjoy badminton.

     
  10. AldrichAxelson

    AldrichAxelson Regular Member

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    Ah yes ive seen his chanel, he weighs over about 115 kg . What would you say his level of play is? Intermediet? Advance?
    Do players who join local tournaments like this guy is in the advance category?

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  11. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    It seems that he plays double in a league ? He has although some singles (friendly?) matches on his channel, playing a lot of deceptive shots, which are more advanced (they are not easy to pull off, and most intermediate players will not be able to play them during a match). But I guess, that he is not really playing singles, quick movement is mandatory at low league or above .

    But in doubles he seems to have a partner who covers most of the court, similar to a mix setup. Seems to work for him and his partner.
     
  12. AldrichAxelson

    AldrichAxelson Regular Member

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    Mmm skill wise he might have some advanced stuff, but considering stamina, swiftness, and reaction time, i think he still falls in Mid to high intermediet. As someone has proposed before, levels from high to low would be like Active Pro, Retired Pro, Advanced (National/Regional league), Intermediet (Local league win or lose), and Beginner

    Btw, do players of this level "peek" at the opponents position before hitting a overhead ?

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  13. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    He has been sighted playinf singles
    Even players way below his level would be doing that!
     
  14. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    He is doing some kind of scissor kick but he doesn't do any extreme ones.. so he isn't sticking his leg far out on the RTH side, or if he is then he's doing it in a way that just prevents him going further back and not in a way that absorbs more force and lets him come forwards quickly.

    see



    0:14 is a scissor kick on FH side

    0:50 is a very gentle scissor kick on the RTH side and clears it high enough that he has time to recover.

    I suppose he can do a high enough RTH clear that he has enough time even with a slower version of RTH scissor kick..

    Various shots he can do due to his excellent racket skills, can put his opponent under a lot of pressure and makes it harder for his opponent to put him under pressure..

    I don't think this is such a good demonstration of an idea that intermediate players don't need to do a (proper) scissor kick. But it is a good demonstration of how it is possible to play with that more relaxed style of RTH side scissor kick.

    Looking at the first minute, like where he does the high RTH clear to his opponents forehand and his opponent clears back but not so well, his opponent better be fast because he is in so much trouble.

    Often with two intermerdiate players neither of them are doing great shots and they are both putting each other into situations where they better be quick.

    I love the notion that oh below pro level or even below regional level you don't have to do a scissor kick .. but no coach i've ever heard has ever given me that green light!! I think i'd need to have his racket skills and pick opponents with far worse racket skills. You are the first person i've ever heard say that below pro level you don't need to scissor kick.. Technically even the big player is doing scissor kicks but gentle ones. Still I've not really heard the idea that you can do the gentle version of scissor kick when below pro level or even below county level.

    Maybe it's doable if when doing a RTH shot, you almost always do a high RTH clear back. Also, he has a decent backhand overhead clear too! (which most intermediate players won't have).

    I don't know a lot about singles though so maybe parts of that analysis of mine are wrong.
     
  15. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    Without doubt he do it, and it is okay, but he although has a higher risk if unjuring like here:


    So, if the OP is not liking to take the risk yet, because he is a beginner, it is absolutely okay to avoid more risky movements like jumps (including scissor), fast stopping etc.

    Can you please quote here, because I didn't see like I said anything like this :mad:. If lower level is the same as just below pro level and not hobby level, you should rethink your view of who actually play badminton and at which quality, I speak about the most likely majority of players and not about just below the tip of the iceberg.
     
    #15 Ballschubser, Feb 26, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2022
  16. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    Badminton has a lot of skill aspects, a lot. At pro level, there's no real doubt, you need to master all aspects, but at beginner level you have a lot of options to be better than your opponent. Be it , that you are quicker, got more stamina, better shot variation, better shot quality, faster reaction time, make less error, better footwork, better anticipation, better deception or just a really good foundation in every aspect.

    It get only more important as you raise up to 'relative' higher level of play (be it from hobby to club or from high league to top league), that you need to be better at more and more aspects.

    As beginner you will have issues to observe the game, it feels very hectic and you don't have a lot time to think about what is actually happening and what you want to do next. This is absolutely normal at this stage. As you get more and more experienced, you will get a awarness of the game, you will see the gaps, you will see what your opponent wants to archive, you will anticipate certain shots etc. But this is really hard to train, when at all (some coaches say, that it is trainable to a certain degree, some doubt it, I do not know). Just play a lot of matches and you will get better and better, but we are talking about years of experiences you will need.
     
  17. AldrichAxelson

    AldrichAxelson Regular Member

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    Is it normal that the average rally of my games are less than 10 shots?

    I usually finish a game (21 pts) a little over 10 minutes

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  18. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    From my experience: yes

    Errors are quite common and end the rallies really quickly. People tend to not play at full steam, therefor need less rest (and less opportunities to enlarge the time to the next rally, often seen in international games). At higher level errors get more rare and players start to outplay their opponent more often.

    I checked the singles I played these week and each has an time of 10-15 mins per set.
     
  19. AldrichAxelson

    AldrichAxelson Regular Member

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    For me 10 minutes its doubles mind me

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  20. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Note- that clip there he trips not from doing a scissor kick.. he trips from doing a net shot and also he fell very skillfully, falling on that side, with the ankle roll to protect his ankle.. landing well as to not get injured, and his racket was alright. Be interesting to see how he falls if rolling his ankle doing a net shot on his racket side.

    Okay now it's clear what level you are talking about re no scissor kick!!

    The thing is, the players you are talking about, basically within the bottom 70% in a non-selective club most of which the attitude of

    "Look, i'm just here to have fun, OK, That guy over there is so serious.. "

    (heck, i've been to selective clubs where 70% have that attitude!!)

    Aldrich is within that 70% but seems to be the type that climbs up and looks at the top 30%, the med-high intermediate players, and wants to get there..

    Or let's say he's like typical school level so below low intermediate. But he wants to get to a good club level.

    Would you say that the footwork at good club level would involve a scissor kick?

    when you look at the two groups.. the second group is the next level from the first group.. And the second group is or is largely, intermediate level..

    He seems to be ambitious. and puts himself currently at "low intermediate skill wise" with "high beginner" footwork.

    We agree that the players in a club that don't do scissor kicks aren't like the large badminton player you linked to who has advanced skill, (and ui'd say he knows which scissor kick would be intensive and can do an easy version of scissor kick there using his ability to hit a high enough clear on the RTH side, That guy would probably beat most of the top 30% of the club, at doubles at least(and maybe at singles partly since most people at clubs don t play singles). The players in a club that don't do scissor kicks would be fine falling out of the court. The bottom 70%.)

    The bottom 70% don't get coaching or if they do they don't take it that far.. they don't do 1-1 for years. But those that do any coaching at all would normally be taught about scissor kicks and not told to not do them..

    Posting on a badminton forum is within the level of, a person that looks to get coaching.. that's ambition there beyond many of the players in a club.

    I think he has ambition to get beyond the players that make your eye twitch or the players that are a laugh to watch or that make better players cover their eyes .. (though some of us can watch videos of ourselves and have a laugh or cover our eyes cos stuff happens that isn't exactly professional level!!).. (Actually i'm sure even pro level players react like that seeing themselves when they recognise their errors!).

    I think at club level one probably doesn't have to do a china jump..

    The thing is, if somebody has a bad knee.. they may well be screwed while they have a bad knee. If they play it can get worse.. Best to let it heal.. if it heals,. And know exactly how it got injured, so e.g. best to have video... And it may be months to heal. So e.g. maybe not playing for months. Some people find knee braces work for them. Though what is the state of their knees. One thing somebody with bad knees can do is have some coaching lessons that focus on specific things that don't put their knees under stress. but games can be a hazard particularly if knees aren't healed.

    I did once know a coach that would teach footwork with no lunges and no scissor kicks.. a very beginner level coach that was old fat slow and with very severe injuries that prevented him playing. He never said that he wasn't teaching that though, that was just his footwork! e.g. from the T, taking three steps to get a net shot. And for the scissor kick he never called it that he just called it footwork and when he demonstrated it it never had any bounce back in part. It was a scissor kick rather like the video of that large guy.
     
    #20 ralphz, Feb 26, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2022

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