money well talking about funds. I got a customer who made me invested into the following funds. Pretty good consistent returns after 8 years. 10% after deducting all the fees and annual renewal. The are vested into finances, IPP and Toll gates. The also allow for referral fees which is small and a minimum sum of only $5000USD. If you are keen to divest, I'll let you contact him. If you pick up Asian Wall Street Journal newspaper, it is listed in there. Take a peek. http://www.natpac-group.com/
in reply to polar bear (cub) http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080502.wbushrecession0502/GIStory/ White House: No evidence of recession so far Reuters Friday, May 02, 2008
cooler was off only 20 billions from my 08-17-2007, 02:59 PM post ----------------------------- Sub-prime mortgages are estimated to amount to nearly $400bn and the International Monetary Fund has warned that the wider cost to the financial sector could be up to $1 trillion. But in its twice-yearly Financial Stability Report, the Bank of England said "all of them are potentially significant overestimates of the losses within the wider economy associated with the financial market crisis". It estimated actual losses to be closer to $170bn, saying that some calculation methods being employed could "significantly exaggerate the scale of losses that financial institutions might ultimately occur". http://mwcnews.net/content/view/22139&Itemid=1
Yeah, is the the White HORSE who tell us that we are winning Iraq war? I really don't believe the HORSE that can talk...
True, recession is just a technical jargon of 2 month of -ve growth. It doesn't tell us about to what degree of magnitude. My point was that there were some exaggeration on both sides, the white Polar cub and the white horse. Hmm, is that how white lie come about
rich people are rich because their money is working for them 24/7, not sitting in a bank account or under the mattress.
Buffett v. Schulich: The biggest bet out there DEREK DeCLOET Globe and Mail Update May 3, 2008 at 6:00 AM EDT From: Seymour Schulich “seymour@richboy.ca” To: Warren Buffett “warren@cheapskate.com” Subject: The road to riches is paved with oil (and wheat, and...) Warren, Seymour Schulich from Toronto here. I was talking to some kids at one of the universities here, and telling them that in 46 years of investing, I've never seen anything like this market. Never. Oil, rice, potash, wheat, gold, sugar – it's a commodity investor's dream. Manna for guys like me! So I got to thinking, I wonder what Buffett says about all this? You've never been a fan of these commodity things. Shoot, you're out there buying big chunks of Wrigley and Kraft Foods. I don't get it. These guys are going to get killed by inflation. Didn't sugar prices go up something like 50 per cent in the space of a few months? By how much do you think Kraft can raise the price of a box of Oreos? Commodities rule, fella. Anyway, getting to my point. You like giving away your money. So do I. I'm proposing a wager. We each set aside $10-million. In two years, the guy with the best return picks the charity that gets the pile. What do you say? A little fun for a good cause? Sincerely, Seymour Schulich, CFA From: Warren Buffett “warren@cheapskate.com” To: Seymour Schulich “seymour@richboy.ca” Subject: You're on Dear Seymour, Thanks for your note. I like visiting Toronto. It reminds me of Omaha, only quieter. Your proposition is interesting and I'll take the bet. I had my research team (by which I mean, Charlie) dig up some details. A business magazine says you're worth $1.3-billion. Not bad for a guy who made his money in oil and mining. Those commodity producers are minting money now. But most of them have no sustainable advantage over the competition. Wheat is wheat; oil is oil. There's no way to differentiate it. There's a supply and demand issue right now, but this too shall pass. I see gold is almost back down to where it peaked in 1980. When you adjust for inflation, oil is still not much higher than it was in the late 1970s. Not much of a real return there. Hey, you know my shtick. I like stable businesses, brand names, rising profits and high returns on capital. Coca-Cola's still making 30 cents for every dollar in shareholders' equity. Wrigley's making 25 cents on the dollar, and doing it with almost no debt. What does it matter if sugar is a bit more expensive? They're great businesses. Gotta run. It's annual meeting day. The adoring masses await. Best regards, Warren p.s. Is that $10-million in Canadian or U.S. currency? From: Seymour Schulich To: Warren Buffett Subject: RE: You're on Dear Warren, Glad to hear you're taking the bet. Let's make it in Canadian dollars. I don't want my charities getting U.S. pesos! Look, I hate to question the wisdom of the world's richest man. But as I often remind people, my family's motto is, “Often wrong, but never in doubt.” And there's no doubt in my mind that it's different this time. By the way, if you're keeping score, ExxonMobil's return on equity was higher last year than Coke's or Wrigley's. I've seen it with my own eyes. The China story is real and could last for the next 20 years. You wouldn't be wrong to say that mining was a crummy business for a long time, and oil has had its bad spells, too. But that was when the U.S. was the world's only major customer for stuff you dig out of the ground. It ain't so any more. You always like to talk about See's Candies and what a great find it was for you. But why? Because you could raise prices all the time without reinventing the damn thing. Chocolate's chocolate. But it's the guys producing the cocoa who've got the leverage now. Come and see me the next time you're in Toronto. We've got to get you weaned off bridge and into poker. Now that's a man's game. SS From: Warren Buffett To: Seymour Schulich Subject: Never invite 24,000 people to your annual meeting Honestly, it takes more Cherry Cokes to get me through this event every year. I'm not averse to commodity companies when they're bargain-priced. We made a very large profit on PetroChina. I just don't think you'll find many like that any more. The kind of businesses we like look as cheap as they've been in a long time. We bought almost 3 per cent of Wells Fargo last year. We tripled our investment in Johnson & Johnson. We're certain their profits will be a lot higher 10 years from now. Can you say that about your gold miners? Best, Warren From: Seymour Schulich To: Warren Buffett Subject: Rocks beat Wrigley Warren, Glad to see you're sticking to your style. The university students of Canada thank you in advance for your donation. You'd better watch out. When gold gets to $10,000 an ounce and oil hits $700 a barrel, I just might pass you on the Forbes billionaire's list! LOL. Best regards, Seymour From: Warren Buffett To: Seymour Schulich Subject: BUD beats barley Seymour, I'll let Bill and Melinda know to expect your cheque in 2010. Regarding the Forbes list – to pass me, you'll have to outlive me. And I intend to challenge Methuselah's record. Sincerely, Warren Buffett
wow cool stuff... so, when is gold hitting 10,000? Definitely not in my lifetime. Cooler, what do you suggest to forumers on placing the money?
wow, cooler, those are some amazing emails. from where were you able to find all this? would love to read/learn more about the investment strategies of these 2 betting billionaires
Canadians sitting on $45-billion of cash JOHN PARTRIDGE Wednesday, May 07, 2008 Canadian investors, wary of continued market turmoil, are sitting on a record $45-billion in cash and CIBC World Markets thinks they should be pumping it into the market. Benjamin Tal, a senior economist at the firm, argues in a Consumer Watch report that by staying on the sidelines instead of pumping the cash into the stock markets, punters are forfeiting billions of dollars in potential gains, just as they did in previous periods of volatility. “Despite the recent recovery in the stock market, Canadians are still sitting on cash positions which in real terms are 15 per cent higher than the already elevated level seen in 2001,” Mr. Tal said in the report Wednesday. “The October, 1987, stock market correction lasted two months, but investors sat on their newly created mountain of cash for a lengthy 16 months, during which time the stock market gained more than 20 per cent. Ditto for the 2001 flight to safety.” The economist's arithmetic tells him that $30-billion in potential gains went up in smoke this way after the 2001 episode, and he figures the cycle is now happening all over again. “Fast forward to today's situation and it appears that history is repeating itself,” he said. However, Mr. Tal also has spotted some dramatic changes. One key difference, he said, is that younger investors are a lot more risk averse than they were just seven years ago. He calculates that 25-to-49-year-olds are responsible for nearly 40 per cent of the pile of cash now sitting on the sidelines, twice as much as in 2001. Another measure of just how nervous investors have become? The implied volatility index of the TSX, the report says, has rocketed up by an “incredible” 80 per cent over the past to levels not seen in more than five years. As well, punters have cashed in a startling $35-billion in equity mutual funds in the past six months alone, and this has helped produce a net outflow on a three-month moving average basis, the worst showing ever, according to Mr. Tal. “Investors are in a bad mood,” he said. By contrast, money market fund sales hit a record $10.7-billion in the first quarter of this year, giving them a 10 per cent share of total mutual funds, up from 7 per cent last September. As well, cash positions in brokerage accounts are swelling by an estimated annual rate of 15 per cent.
well, most people got burnt badly during internet bust. So I guess most are being prudent. There's still money to be made when the bull comes. As of now, with the borrowings and deficit from the big banks, someone has to pay for it. Where is it coming from? Earth? Most are waiting for someone to go bust I think. Everyone is extremely cautious.
^^I think..^^ ..that graph, above, is indicative and reflective of the current stock market, esp. in the U.S.....Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, the 2 giant loan companies, are basically.............................bankrupt, kaput, no longer, gonzo in existence.........(just enter in Freddie Mac's stock symbol, FRE, and one'll see the same graph; i believe it went from like $80/share to now less than $1.00, i think around $.60/share)... Anyone wants to foretell when or if they'll ever make it to the top, again??...
A lot of people got burnt for sure. A good buy for those who can long it. Still bearish. I went out clean since last year Dec. Lucky me. Have to wait for some consistent side line graphs for 2 months to a qtr before pickup some good blue chip buys. Everyone is like waiting for one or two big boys to really go bust. It's not happening with uncle sam supporting them. Again, deep pockets ok. Don't mess around with borrowed money. Happy trading !
days of reckless finance is over, time to flush the toilet. Unfortunately, the gov't is using innocent taxpayers to bail out banks and rich bankers who made the mistakes. Those overrated bankers are really just casino dealers hide under cloak of legitimate bankers. They don't really add value to the society but they gotten paid really well for their slick and glossy packaging of dreamt up financing schemes. ----------------------------------------------------- Days of wine and Porsches over The Street that's made millionaires, and billionaires, out of traders and deal makers is being torn up ANDREW WILLIS Wednesday, September 17, 2008 John Mack, a.k.a. Mack the Knife, gave vent Wednesday to the frustration and anger that comes when $120-million (U.S.) of your savings vanish in the space of a few hours. As the chief executive officer of Morgan Stanley watched the value of his investment bank slashed at one point by 44 per cent, on fears that his would be the next Wall Street titan consigned to the scrap heap, Mr. Mack fired off a lunch-hour memo. "We're in the midst of a market controlled by fear and rumours. There is no rational basis for the movements in our stock," thundered the 63-year-old CEO. Hours later, those fears and rumours had Mr. Mack reportedly in merger talks with larger banks. Mack the Knife is missing something. He doesn't realize folks think Wall Street is no longer rational. These people see an era drawing to a close. The Street that's made millionaires, and billionaires, out of traders and deal makers is being torn up, and will soon be a far less lucrative place to work. You see, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs aren't tanking on their financial results. These venerable brokerage houses are being pounded because the whole concept of independent investment banks no longer works. In the wake of Lehman Brothers' failure and fires sales at Bear Stearns and venerable Merrill Lynch — houses that all survived the Great Depression — it's hard to argue that Wall Street isn't busted. Mr. Mack, for all his bluster, is bowing to this new reality. The CEO saw a stake in his 45,000-employee firm, worth $288-million last year, melt Wednesday, despite Morgan Stanley's announcement of better-than-expected profit. As the stock plummeted, Morgan Stanley was reported in merger talks Wednesday night with commercial bank Wachovia, which has its own balance sheet woes. On news of Wachovia's overtures, one Canadian brokerage house CEO, safe in the arms of a well-capitalized parent, joked: "They are trying to land the Hindenburg on the deck of the Titanic." The problem is a change in attitude. Investment banking has always been a risky business. And these days, no investor wants to own risky. For generations, independent dealers deftly used small amounts of their own capital to take massive positions in stocks and bonds. That's called leverage, and it translated into fortunes for the dealers and their employees. But leverage cuts both ways. When Wall Street's massive holdings are money-losing bets on U.S. residential mortgages, and there's no way to dump the portfolios, then a bank's capital gets burned up quickly. Suddenly, the emperors of finance find they have no clothes. Personal fortunes amassed through decades of work are being vaporized. Lehman boss **** Fuld had a $1-billion stake in his firm just 18 months ago, took home a $34-million paycheque, and enjoyed a sterling reputation. This week, his holdings are worth $1.3-million, he's unemployed and his name is mud. The rest of the financial community is quickly coming to a view expressed Monday by CIBC World Markets CEO Richard Nesbitt. "I don't think around the world there's any place for a large investment bank unless they're part of a commercial bank. I don't think they'll exist, except for the very, very tiny investment dealers." At times like these, there is virtue in a conservative Canadian approach that sees deep-pocketed bank-owned dealers commit relatively small amounts of their own capital to trading, and independent houses focus on fee-based work for small companies. They haven't experienced the losses seen on Wall Street, and highly profitable retail banks mean survival is not an issue. However, there's still raw fear among staff at Canadian houses, and in Europe, along with lower Manhattan. We're now into a self-fulfilling spiral. Hedge funds were cutting back on trading yesterday with Morgan Stanley and, to a lesser extent, Goldman Sachs, on fears the carnage is not over. If Wall Street comes unstuck, everyone in financial services will suffer. And there's a long-term fear that this time, a way of life is threatened. Because this time, the Street likely won't bounce back when markets do. New rules are clearly coming. After staring into the abyss, boards of directors and regulators will limit the leverage available at investment banks. Both U.S. presidential candidates are promising to wrap the industry in red tape. Derivative markets will dry up. It all means profitability will suffer. And when profits drop, so too do the bonus cheques that buy Porsches and summer homes. Independent investment banks ran Wall Street for generations. This week, their survival is in question, as is the way of life they represent. Morgan Stanley (MS) Close: $21.75, down $6.95 © The Globe and Mail
