2011 China Masters: Finals on Sunday 18-September

The law is not made for jail, and law is not about what is wrong or forbidden, except in police-orientated states.
Not anyone is a sage that is for sure, and I am not either, but that does not leads me to say "match-fixing is all right".
But anyway, if I am a minority not liking match-fixing, I might reconsider my opinion. But something tells me that I am not alone.
 
huangkwokhau said:
No one is forced to watch....thats the problem here..it will decrease the popularity of the sport.....if TV later decide not to show it and less support then we are very close to get badminton axed....thats bad thinking!!
We need to make badminton fair and no no " acting" and withdrew for no reason..i do not care it is china, Kor or Ina..etc...no Match fixing...Period!!!
If we care about Badminton then we need to promote the sport in bigger picture...

I remembered in 2008 SIN Open..where Wang Lin vs Zhu Jing Jing in 1st match..the winner will play against Wong Mew Choo..since WL and ZJJ only played Singapore Open, not going to INA Open ( only Zhu Lin and Zhang Ning on INA Open)...we knew from the beginning one of them will not show up.....guess what what happened! Wang Lin and Yu yang were in warming up and waiitng for ZJJ to arrive in the hotel..
All of us knew that ZJJJ did not check in the hotel..even singapore organizer complained as they knew ZJJ did not arrive ( they checked with Singapore Immigration) so WL got walkover which that spot could be given to other..it is FRAUD!!!! All players shouted " ZJJ is in China...."I did ask one the chinese players and he said you knew...
It is sad that China is big country and their players are the best....they do not need to do this..chinese people have their pride...they do not need HELP to win....we saw them keep winning in different countries...CBA and LYB do make this sport look really bad so the image of chinese players which they have nothing to do with it...is that fair??
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Is it fair to limit the qualifications for Olympic Games to 3? Is it fair for a player to become professional only if he got enough money for training? Is it fair for the prize money for tennis be 15000 grand and badminton 120 only? It's a natural consequence if a game is designed wrong and played poorly from the start. Those things bring shame to China. But I learn to live with it, because it was doomed to happen. It's not because these people are born selfish or whatsoever, its because they are given too many chances to become selfish. It is wrong from the start. Everyone should be blamed, but the source of it, the inappropriate administration should be blamed the most.
 
renbo said:
The law is not made for jail, and law is not about what is wrong or forbidden, except in police-orientated states.
Not anyone is a sage that is for sure, and I am not either, but that does not leads me to say "match-fixing is all right".
But anyway, if I am a minority not liking match-fixing, I might reconsider my opinion. But something tells me that I am not alone.
Click to expand...
The law is about three things: what you should do; how do you do things right; what you should never do. I've never seen a law without these three things. And I've never seen a country administrated well with mere morallity.
What I said is: if you view badminton as a team sport, matchfixing is actually right. But of course in no way should it be viewed as a team sport. That's the wrong thing to begin with.
People normally won't criticise a F1 driver or speed skater for what he has done, because they take them as team sports. It's all about customs and history. The real thing that pissed the audience is teamwork makes those sports more interesting, but makes badminton very boring. Sportsmanship comes from showmanship, and sportsmanship defines what is ethical. People don't really care about fairness, they care about competitiveness. That's why I say this game is poorly designed.
 
Sure. It is not CHN's fault, it is the bad design.
 
Chayady said:
Rules don't always cover every scenario, but I believe there is what called as morality value.
I think this is what is missing in LBY, and it is destroying the game.
It even polluting some of the spectator, and they start to think owww it is ok to "lie" because the rules don't govern it. LOL.
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LYB's moral value is Nation before Self. He justifies his match-fixing as for the good of the country, not individual glory. In Western or European countries, they might do it for personal glory or monetary gain - that seems to be implied from reading the many exchanges,clarifications and arguments the few of you all are engaged in.

The point is we all want to see real fight, genuine victories with the best player of the day winning. But the reality is there is no BWF rules to punish or stop it, and China is able to do it because she has too many strong players to choose from to win glory for the nation based on tournament situation. The Chinese player affected may grudgingly accept it, live with it or quietly or later openly protest it. In my humble opinion, the best way to counter the Chinese action is for the players themselves to fight against it or for a non-Chinese player to be so strong that it doesn't matter which Chinese player is match-fixed to take him/her on. OK, I rest my case, and have no wish to join in or start another argument on this matter. Let's just enjoy the game of badminton - may the best player win!
 
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nokh88 said:
All Olympic tickets are expensive. Chris, you have to be selective and picked the most honest sport.
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You are correct... I wouldn't want to watch a sport with play-acting involved at the Olympic Games.

But for the Thomas, Uber, Sudirman Cups, it is a different story. Why? Because that's Badminton. :D:D:D
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not sure what u guys talking about
i am glad that now chen long is proven to be better than chen jin,lin dan,peter gade and lee chong wei
chen long should be the reallllllllllllllllllllll world number one!yeah!

(in denial mode,haha)
 
Chen Long is now the BEST MS player ???

limsy said:
not sure what u guys talking about
i am glad that now chen long is proven to be better than chen jin, lin dan, peter gade and lee chong wei
chen long should be the reallllllllllllllllllllll world number one!yeah!

(in denial mode,haha)
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I can read and understand what you are saying. :):):)

And Lee Chong Wei and Lin Dan are laughing at us (for those who think that Chen Long is now the BEST MS player). :D:D:D
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Justin L said:
LYB's moral value is Nation before Self. He justifies his match-fixing as for the good of the country, not individual glory. In Western or European countries, they might do it for personal glory or monetary gain - that seems to be implied from reading the many exchanges,clarifications and arguments the few of you all are engaged in.

The point is we all want to see real fight, genuine victories with the best player of the day winning. But the reality is there is no BWF rules to punish or stop it, and China is able to do it because she has too many strong players to choose from to win glory for the nation based on tournament situation. The Chinese player affected may grudgingly accept it, live with it or quietly or later openly protest it. In my humble opinion, the best way to counter the Chinese action is for the players themselves to fight against it or for a non-Chinese player to be so strong that it doesn't matter which Chinese player is match-fixed to take him/her on. OK, I rest my case, and have no wish to join in or start another argument on this matter. Let's just enjoy the game of badminton - may the best player win!
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I think Cai Yun is the only one who is immune and too hungry for titles to throw matches (and in the position to refuse) :cool:. Should be interesting after 2012 ;) ... Thought Wang Yihan would be #2 but I guess her bargaining position is not as good as CY's (yet).
 
lucida said:
If you agree it's about perspectives how can you be sure it is cheating? (Although I agree sometimes it is cheating.) My point is you can't point to the nose of anybody that retires and call him/her cheater. That is nitpicking. And some poeple here were not speculating, they were slandering.
What I am arguing with you is that it is inevitable with current rules and current rules can do nothing about that. BWF can't even punish them by the rules. I don't find excuses for those things, I find reasons for them. Bad things happen. You criticise them and not prevent them and more will happen. Blaming those innocent(like JYJ) is the most meaningless behaviour I can conceive of.
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I will just comment on the match fixing thing.It's viewed as serious as taking bribe to lose a match,like football.
In democratic countries, if an athlete has been asked to purposely lose to a team mate, they can complain against the official/coach. This happened on Msia's lawn bowling team where a player was asked to lose against a lower ranking team mate, in which she refused & the official kicked her out of the team. The team mate was the officer's girlfriend or sthing. The player made the issue public(along with another few more), was re-instated. Officer was booted out of team, but no legal action, cos no concrete proof to satisfy the lawyers, the official was careful, including sms message.

BWF can only do something if the players complain that they were forced to lose by the management/coaches, backed with proof of being asked to do so. Now, imagine the boldness needed to do that, esp in China's type of system.
 
eaglehelang said:
I will just comment on the match fixing thing.It's viewed as serious as taking bribe to lose a match,like football.
In democratic countries, if an athlete has been asked to purposely lose to a team mate, they can complain against the official/coach. This happened on Msia's lawn bowling team where a player was asked to lose against a lower ranking team mate, in which she refused & the official kicked her out of the team. The team mate was the officer's girlfriend or sthing. The player made the issue public(along with another few more), was re-instated. Officer was booted out of team, but no legal action, cos no concrete proof to satisfy the lawyers, the official was careful, including sms message.

BWF can only do something if the players complain that they were forced to lose by the management/coaches, backed with proof of being asked to do so. Now, imagine the boldness needed to do that, esp in China's type of system.
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Yes, almost impossible. That is why I admire Zhou Mi - such a shame she had to retire.
One aspect of the problem is the 'amateur' status of the players (except rare ones, like TH and WCH.) It is difficult to 'bite the hand that feeds you'.
 
demolidor said:
I think Cai Yun is the only one who is immune and too hungry for titles to throw matches (and in the position to refuse) :cool:. Should be interesting after 2012 ;) ... Thought Wang Yihan would be #2 but I guess her bargaining position is not as good as CY's (yet).
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After watching the WangYH-JiangYJ match, I realised I read too much into it thinking it must be Wang giving the match away, though I've to admit she didn't play as well or as sharp as when she demolished Saina. For example, there were a number of points where Wang had to stretch herself to retrieve every shot from JYJ and even prolong the rally - why worked so hard if you intend to lose when you could pretend to have an off-day and play an error-prone game.

Come to think of it, with all four semi-final slots occupied by the top four BWF ranked players, I don't see a need for anyone to give way to anyone;they will still retain their top four ranking after this tournament. Reminds me of what the Indian coach P. Gopichand said when asked who his protege Saina should fear most among the top four Chinese, he answered(something to this effect): "They are equally good, depends on whose form is best in the tournament. For Saina to win, she must beat every one of them. To make matters worse, China has this ability to suddenly produce another world-beater at the drop of a hat (referring to Li Xuerui and Liu Xin, I supposed)."
 
Justin L said:
After watching the WangYH-JiangYJ match, I realised I read too much into it thinking it must be Wang giving the match away, though I've to admit she didn't play as well or as sharp as when she demolished Saina. For example, there were a number of points where Wang had to stretch herself to retrieve every shot from JYJ and even prolong the rally - why worked so hard if you intend to lose when you could pretend to have an off-day and play an error-prone game.

Come to think of it, with all four semi-final slots occupied by the top four BWF ranked players, I don't see a need for anyone to give way to anyone;they will still retain their top four ranking after this tournament. Reminds me of what the Indian coach P. Gopichand said when asked who his protege Saina should fear most among the top four Chinese, he answered(something to this effect): "They are equally good, depends on whose form is best in the tournament. For Saina to win, she must beat every one of them. To make matters worse, China has this ability to suddenly produce another world-beater at the drop of a hat (referring to Li Xuerui and Liu Xin, I supposed)."
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the fact that only 3 gets to go to London. they will have to play their best. despite the fact that many have already speculated that the 3 Wangs will be chosen, they need to be careful not to show any drop in form. it is still a competition.

in addition, LYB before has stated, it is more critical for players to be able to beat players from another country. i guess who have the best record against players like Saina, Tine will have better value than able to beat each other.
 
The Wang Yihan [1]-vs-Jiang Yanjiao [4] match

Justin L said:
After watching the WangYH-JiangYJ match, I realised I read too much into it thinking it must be Wang giving the match away, though I've to admit she didn't play as well or as sharp as when she demolished Saina. For example, there were a number of points where Wang had to stretch herself to retrieve every shot from JYJ and even prolong the rally - why worked so hard if you intend to lose when you could pretend to have an off-day and play an error-prone game.
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In a match, when there are no smash winners from Wang Yihan, most of us would assume she was told to do so. :D:D:D

http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/s...B55&match=89#cphPage_cphPage_cphPage_tblGame0
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You know, my fellow BCers, while we are quite convinced and annoyed that Lin Dan contrived to lose to CJ, I find it amazing that the crowd at Changzhou actually were cheering and applauding at every point scored depending on which of the two they supported as if the two contestants were really slugging it out!? Dunno what to make of it. Puzzled, a bit confused.
 
There is nothing we can do about the situation. Unless we don't buy the tickets when the final is a all-chinese affair, we can talk till the cows come home and nothing will happen for the love of the sport. Nothing. We can only choose whether to buy the tickets, or whether to on the tv and tune into the sport.

lucida said:
The law is about three things: what you should do; how do you do things right; what you should never do. I've never seen a law without these three things. And I've never seen a country administrated well with mere morallity.
What I said is: if you view badminton as a team sport, matchfixing is actually right. But of course in no way should it be viewed as a team sport. That's the wrong thing to begin with.
People normally won't criticise a F1 driver or speed skater for what he has done, because they take them as team sports. It's all about customs and history. The real thing that pissed the audience is teamwork makes those sports more interesting, but makes badminton very boring. Sportsmanship comes from showmanship, and sportsmanship defines what is ethical. People don't really care about fairness, they care about competitiveness. That's why I say this game is poorly designed.
Click to expand...
 
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