2011 Singapore Open SS: Day 6 - Finals Day (Sunday June 19)

[choonie]

So no matter who's going to win, the match is fixed by no matter who wins.

After reading the posts here, I found out people are always self-assumed correctness. why Lin Dan walked over? Here are the reasons.

first, it's not an order from the management or coach or LYB, it's not fixing game, no one expected it until LD asked for it after the semi final. The true reason only LD himself knew in the whole world. After LD asked for wo, LYB and coaches held a meeting for that, and finally they agreed.

there were some facts need to take into consideration:

1) first, LD did get diarrhea the first day in Singapore, so he's not in good form, he struggled a lot to beat SS, PG whom LD just cruised with no effort at Sudirman cup.

2) so I think, (which is just I think) LD's afraid of losing to CJ in the final, that's the reason he w.o.

3) It's definitely not the reason for CJ to gain points. If CJ needed points, he would easily gain huge points by playing 1 or 2 in sudirman cup.

4) it's not for helping CJ. I don't think LD trying to help other players, especially teammates, any players, their teammates are their biggest competitors. That's purely because BWF rules allowing 2 or 3 max players from the same country in world championship and olympics.

5) It's not for better performance next round, last time, several years ago, CJ beat LD in semi and lost LCW in the final. LD should have bigger chance.

6) LD wo several times to different players, including NTM (not even a Chinese player), CL and CJ. I found out most of time, the reason is fear. LD's afraid of losing, so he choose to WO. Sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the current opponent, sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the next round opponents.

Hi, I am not quite agreed with what you said.

1) first, LD did get diarrhea the first day in Singapore, so he's not in good form, he struggled a lot to beat SS, PG whom LD just cruised with no effort at Sudirman cup.
We all know that this is his 4th WO in 7 months. In the Super Series, He only didn't WO in the Korea Premier and All England. It's very hard for me to believe this. The reason he gave is that he drank some cold water (during/after?) the match agains Simon.

2) so I think, (which is just I think) LD's afraid of losing to CJ in the final, that's the reason he w.o.
If he was able to take down Simon and Peter in good form, I don't see why he couldn't win CJ as well.

3) It's definitely not the reason for CJ to gain points. If CJ needed points, he would easily gain huge points by playing 1 or 2 in sudirman cup.
According to China's performance in Sudirman cup, apart from their WD, none of others appeared to be the sure-win point except LD in MS. Their WS lost a couple of games in this year's Sudirman cup too. In XD, Korean, Indonesian and Danes were all quite competitive as well. Therefore, it was not CJ did not need the points, it was that the China team dared not to use him.

4) it's not for helping CJ. I don't think LD trying to help other players, especially teammates, any players, their teammates are their biggest competitors. That's purely because BWF rules allowing 2 or 3 max players from the same country in world championship and olympics.
Look at the MS's trend in the past year, LD's (or China's) biggest competitor is no one but Lee Chong Wei. Winning only a silver medal in Olympics is a failure to China team. Therefore, they REALLY need to have 3 players in London Olympics. CJ, CL and BCL all are capable of making it into at least quarter-finals or even semi-finals. What LYB want to see is a China-China match in semi-finals or 3 China players and LCW in semi-finals. Do you still remember what happened in WS semi-finals in Athens 2004 Olympics? They have admitted that Zhou Mi was ORDERED to lose to Zhang Ning. Another example would be Sydney 2000 WS, Gong Zhi Chao vs Ye Zhao Ying? and Beijing 2008 Lin Dan vs Chen Jin?

5) I don't quite get it.

6) LD wo several times to different players, including NTM (not even a Chinese player), CL and CJ. I found out most of time, the reason is fear. LD's afraid of losing, so he choose to WO. Sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the current opponent, sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the next round opponents.
I don't think so. Do you still remember Malaysia SS 2011? LD WO and in Korean Premier, he appeared fit and in good shape to beat LCW in three sets in MS final.


Hmmmmmmmmm..

 

[chris-ccc]

LD is afraid of losing ???

I found out most of time, the reason is fear. LD's afraid of losing, so he choose to WO. Sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the current opponent, sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the next round opponents.

.
LD is afraid of losing ???

To me, Lin Dan is the most successful player in recent years. He has won so many big major titles, that in the last 6 years or so he has been regarded highly, with much respect.

IMHO, if Lin Dan is afraid of losing, then it might be better for him to retire ASAP.

But in his recent comments (in the last 2 months), he has told the media that he is planning not to retire if China still needs him after the 2012 Olympic Games.
.

 

[sen]

I find it hard to believe the argument of fearing of losing(kiasu ?)

If Lin Dan is so afraid to lose when he is not 100% fit, he may not want to play all matches in Sudirman Cup or Thomas Cup. He always play in the team event because he was ordered to by the team.

When he withdrew against NTM who is not a team mate, maybe he was not fit.

Then, the argument for CJ to play in Sudirman cup to gain points. Well, we don't know why CJ did not play in Sudirman Cup. Maybe at that time, they knew CJ is not fit and also to give him rest in order to prepare for July where he plays in 3 tournaments in a row.

 

[Avenger]

So no matter who's going to win, the match is fixed by no matter who wins.

After reading the posts here, I found out people are always self-assumed correctness. why Lin Dan walked over? Here are the reasons.

first, it's not an order from the management or coach or LYB, it's not fixing game, no one expected it until LD asked for it after the semi final. The true reason only LD himself knew in the whole world. After LD asked for wo, LYB and coaches held a meeting for that, and finally they agreed.

there were some facts need to take into consideration:

1) first, LD did get diarrhea the first day in Singapore, so he's not in good form, he struggled a lot to beat SS, PG whom LD just cruised with no effort at Sudirman cup.

2) so I think, (which is just I think) LD's afraid of losing to CJ in the final, that's the reason he w.o.

3) It's definitely not the reason for CJ to gain points. If CJ needed points, he would easily gain huge points by playing 1 or 2 in sudirman cup.

4) it's not for helping CJ. I don't think LD trying to help other players, especially teammates, any players, their teammates are their biggest competitors. That's purely because BWF rules allowing 2 or 3 max players from the same country in world championship and olympics.

5) It's not for better performance next round, last time, several years ago, CJ beat LD in semi and lost LCW in the final. LD should have bigger chance.

6) LD wo several times to different players, including NTM (not even a Chinese player), CL and CJ. I found out most of time, the reason is fear. LD's afraid of losing, so he choose to WO. Sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the current opponent, sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the next round opponents.

that might be another theory HOWEVER
this is the real main problem
if he is afraid of losing, why does he become an athlete?
become a salary man would give him better benefit without having fear to lose lol..

being afraid of losing is even more lame excuse
that means you believe he does not have mental of a champion only fight if he can win

you forgot that this is FINAL
people come to watch you and you let the down? is that the way to promote badminton?

I think it might be better if the person that lose to lin dan before takes his place
for example lin dan beat PG in semi finals, so PG would take lin dan place and play
that is more reasonable

P.S: gastric flu? should take some days (even one week) to recover, and he slaughter Indonesian player today
good job LD, you are wolverine

 

[OneToughBirdie]

So no matter who's going to win, the match is fixed by no matter who wins.

After reading the posts here, I found out people are always self-assumed correctness. why Lin Dan walked over? Here are the reasons.

first, it's not an order from the management or coach or LYB, it's not fixing game, no one expected it until LD asked for it after the semi final. The true reason only LD himself knew in the whole world. After LD asked for wo, LYB and coaches held a meeting for that, and finally they agreed.

there were some facts need to take into consideration:

1) first, LD did get diarrhea the first day in Singapore, so he's not in good form, he struggled a lot to beat SS, PG whom LD just cruised with no effort at Sudirman cup.

2) so I think, (which is just I think) LD's afraid of losing to CJ in the final, that's the reason he w.o.

3) It's definitely not the reason for CJ to gain points. If CJ needed points, he would easily gain huge points by playing 1 or 2 in sudirman cup.

4) it's not for helping CJ. I don't think LD trying to help other players, especially teammates, any players, their teammates are their biggest competitors. That's purely because BWF rules allowing 2 or 3 max players from the same country in world championship and olympics.

5) It's not for better performance next round, last time, several years ago, CJ beat LD in semi and lost LCW in the final. LD should have bigger chance.

6) LD wo several times to different players, including NTM (not even a Chinese player), CL and CJ. I found out most of time, the reason is fear. LD's afraid of losing, so he choose to WO. Sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the current opponent, sometimes, he's afraid of losing to the next round opponents.

In this particular IO11, in case you did not read my post carefully, I say I am 'guessing', not 'correctness' and that there is good reason to fix the match outcome because CJ is currently ranked 10 and CJ needs to get into top 4 for CHN to qualify 3 MS for OLY12. I am also 'guessing' that IO11 is not that important as to which CHN player wins, it is the OLY points that really matters and to be more precise, LYB wants CJ to get those points, again that is my GUESS. We are playing a game of 'guessing' LD or CJ going through to the final, I am not saying I am 100% correct, so far I say CJ wins and Chris/Sen say LD.

 

[OneToughBirdie]

2cents,
LD is a proud fella, LD has said many times before win-losing does not matter and he can only play his best so to say LD is fear of losing or kiasu, you are a bit out here. Ld mental power is so tough that makes him such a formidable player, if he loses, he comes back stronger...you are talking about a player who based on achievements is probably the best ever player in badminton. Some may disagree but majority will agree so. I think the other way is more correct (I am not guessing), other players fear LD.

 

[2cents]

wow, so many comments, thanks friends for your comments.

but few of you agreed what I said. Many points you guys made were so naive. everybody is afraid of losing, ok. that's meanless to argue that.

 

[2cents]

LD was afraid of losing especially when he felt that was not his field or his day. especially when he's sick, though not too sick to play. Like famous general said, choose your battlefield instead of fight on your enemy's battlefield. that's one of reason LD is so strong and almost invincible.

There's no doubt other people fear LD more than the opposite. Many times, LCW collapsed just because his fear.

Some friends mentioned that China would lose to other Sudirman cup teams if using CJ instead of LD, like Denmakr, Korea, Indonesia, Japan, Germany. THere is no need to argue that. You guys are funny.

Some argue LD even can beat Simon and Gade, he then had no problem with CJ. That's funny too. Please check the head 2 head records, if not, do you know who's the world champion, when and how Simon become a better player than CJ. You guys are totally blinded from facts.

Some repeated mention fixing games in Olympics. But there's nothing to do with that. Everyone knows that. In fact, as a insider, fixing game was true, but not every match. Only the important matches, especially in Olympics, fixing game is not uncommon for China. The reason are 2: BWF made olympics a batterfield between counrties; 2: China team is a central tight controlled. By the way, other countries fixed games at Olympics in other sports too. it's also typicall in track /athletic and speed skating, some people sacrifice themselves for the team

but China doesn't fix each game even at Singapore open, every fixing game alwasy a double blades hurt the team heavily. For who can qualified for the Olympics, the competition just started. The final 2 or 3 people will depends on the rankings, by the way, CJ is not behind, the past year points doesn't count! I would like to point out that CJ might be the #1 at collecting Olypics points in world currently!

LD is not a good boy, I'm totally against his w.o. But facts are just facts.

 

[chris-ccc]

In this particular IO11, in case you did not read my post carefully, I say I am 'guessing', not 'correctness' and that there is good reason to fix the match outcome because CJ is currently ranked 10 and CJ needs to get into top 4 for CHN to qualify 3 MS for OLY12. I am also 'guessing' that IO11 is not that important as to which CHN player wins, it is the OLY points that really matters and to be more precise, LYB wants CJ to get those points, again that is my GUESS. We are playing a game of 'guessing' LD or CJ going through to the final, I am not saying I am 100% correct, so far I say CJ wins and Chris/Sen say LD.

.
Yes, I am guessing that LD will be selected by LYB to defeat CJ at the Quarter-Finals of the 2011 Indonesia Open SS Premier. This is because LD has a better chance of defeating LCW at the Finals.

But if LCW was to be eliminated at the Round-of-16, or at the Quarter-Finals, then I would guess that CJ will be selected by LYB to win over LD again. But hope that it won't be another walkover, like at Singapore last week, otherwise, there will be a riot in Jakarta by the Indonesian Badminton fans.
.

 

[luvina]

.
Yes, I am guessing that LD will be selected by LYB to defeat CJ at the Quarter-Finals of the 2011 Indonesia Open SS Premier. This is because LD has a better chance of defeating LCW at the Finals.

But if LCW was to be eliminated at the Round-of-16, or at the Quarter-Finals, then I would guess that CJ will be selected by LYB to win over LD again. But hope that it won't be another walkover, like at Singapore last week, otherwise, there will be a riot in Jakarta by the Indonesian Badminton fans.
.

Yup, my feeling it's seems will happen again
I believe LCW will wait at the Finals.

 

[chris-ccc]

Lin Dan is not a good boy ???

Some repeated mention fixing games in Olympics. But there's nothing to do with that. Everyone knows that. In fact, as a insider, fixing game was true, but not every match. Only the important matches, especially in Olympics, fixing game is not uncommon for China. The reason are 2: BWF made olympics a batterfield between counrties; 2: China team is a central tight controlled. By the way, other countries fixed games at Olympics in other sports too. it's also typicall in track /athletic and speed skating, some people sacrifice themselves for the team

but China doesn't fix each game even at Singapore open, every fixing game always a double blades hurt the team heavily. For who can qualified for the Olympics, the competition just started. The final 2 or 3 people will depends on the rankings, by the way, CJ is not behind, the past year points doesn't count! I would like to point out that CJ might be the #1 at collecting Olympics points in world currently!

LD is not a good boy, I'm totally against his w.o. But facts are just facts.

.
Hahaha... I disagree with you, when you said that Lin Dan is not a good boy.

Yes, the Singaporean crowd booed at Lin Dan when he announced his walkover to Chen Jin. But, why did they also booed at other Chinese players after LD's announcement?. It is because the crowd detected that it was match-fixing by the Chinese team. The crowd blamed the whole Chinese team, not just LD.

What I am saying is Lin Dan is a victim of the current system; of how players play matches under the instructions from their National Associations.
.

 

[cobalt]

.
...snip...

What I am saying is Lin Dan is a victim of the current system; of how players play matches under the instructions from their National Associations.
.

Agreed; only up to a point. I repeat, it takes 2 hands to clap. LD always as an individual, a professional, and a thinking person who can diffrentiate right from wrong, can choose to not throw a match. Of course, he will have to face the consequences.

The problem is one of conditioning, and no true accountability. The CBA takes order from on high, and they all want the same thing: victory at all cost. Other National Associations can come under legal and other types of scrutiny if they attempted this type of fixing, blatantly, in every second tournament.

 

[Maklike Tier]

You think someone like Taufik would throw a game if his powers-that-be asked him to? Hell no.

The Chinese are just so 'well conditioned', they're like human 'worker ants' as an outsider looking into the hive. LD would never go against the party line, EVER - I think it would be safe to say that it's never crossed his mind. At one of the training boot camps he'd no doubt be 'well drilled' in backhand clears but also the mantra "There is no 'i' in T-E-A-M". When everyone is well looked after and things are 'productive' (read: lucrative), the incentive to actually develop any meaningful ethics must be pretty well - especially well coccooned in the nouveau Comu-Capitalist blanket - zero.

Take one for the team and we'll look after you....or don't, and see what happens.

 

[OneToughBirdie]

Chris, Sen and 2cents,
Guess Chris, Sen and OTB all guess wrong Maybe 2cents is correct that LD is afraid of facing LCW or maybe LD read our posts and just to screw us up, that 'bad boy' threw his match to Sho ...LOL

 

[chris-ccc]

Lin Dan denied intentionally gave victory to Sasaki or told by coach to budge

Chris, Sen and 2cents,
Guess Chris, Sen and OTB all guess wrong Maybe 2cents is correct that LD is afraid of facing LCW or maybe LD read our posts and just to screw us up, that 'bad boy' threw his match to Sho ...LOL

.
Lin Dan said after the match that he still feels upset stomach he suffered in last week's Singapore Open SS.

Source: http://olahraga.kompas.com/read/2011/06/23/19011395/Sakit.Perut.Lin.Dan.Tersingkir

This is a part of the article translated by Google;

Lin pleaded not perform optimally because he still feels upset stomach he suffered in last week's Singapore Open Superseries. He denied intentionally gave victory to Sasaki or told by coach to budge. "I did not look up," said Lin Dan.
.

 

[Shuttlekok]

There IS another better description for shuttlecock. NAIVE.

Well I may be naive like you mentioned, but knowing how China players are handling the situation with their highly almighty coach, only the blind will still believe the china players are like gods.

 

[extremenanopowe]

That means Lindan must have some issues with analyzing his own well being. If still suffering, why not withdraw earlier from IO?

Intriguing isn't it? OG money is big for some other players at well. Will players be manipulated at CBA mercy? Will you allow that?

Time to set up a players union to put pressure on BWF. BWF is very reactive and not very proactive about all these. Can the media ask BWF why so reactive?

 

[Pakito]

.
Hahaha... I disagree with you, when you said that Lin Dan is not a good boy.

Yes, the Singaporean crowd booed at Lin Dan when he announced his walkover to Chen Jin. But, why did they also booed at other Chinese players after LD's announcement?. It is because the crowd detected that it was match-fixing by the Chinese team. The crowd blamed the whole Chinese team, not just LD.

What I am saying is Lin Dan is a victim of the current system; of how players play matches under the instructions from their National Associations.
.

Now this I have to agree with Chris with my 2x2cents. Haha.. Remember as ego or charismatic LD is, he is not one who has all the say in the badminton world of the communist country. So unless one can be 101% sure what is going on, is not fair to judge him guilty. Who knows deep down inside, he is dying to slaughter everyone of the players?

 

[chris-ccc]

From which country players are from, it should be of lesser importance

Now this I have to agree with Chris with my 2x2cents. Haha.. Remember as ego or charismatic LD is, he is not one who has all the say in the badminton world of the communist country. So unless one can be 101% sure what is going on, is not fair to judge him guilty. Who knows deep down inside, he is dying to slaughter everyone of the players?

.
Hahaha... To slaughter everyone? Lin Dan is good; but he is not that good that he can be a sure winner.

CBA is interested in winning titles for China. However, I don't like the idea that they try to plan and select their players as to whom they wish/want to win. We have seen before that CBA might not choose Lin Dan to win.

But to me, this is not healthy for our Badminton as a sport.

Why allow National Associations to decide who is to win? When we watch sports, we are more interested in the players' skill and ability. IMHO, from which country players are from, it should be of lesser importance.
.

 

[rosid]

wew...!!!
the matches are about 18 hours to come...
but this thread come into page 35. What a fast!!!