2014 Li-Ning BWF WORLD Championships : Day-6 (30th August 2014) - SEMIFINALS

[renbo]

The numbers quoted are not showing what we discuss here. From the year before WC 2011, the H2H is LCW 2 LD 1. There was momentum for LCW.
After WC, there was two tournaments played without spirit (I was there for the final at HK open, it was played without any kind of intensity.) In All Eng 2012, LCW retired injured.
Then there was the OLY 2012 and WC 2013. LD won both of them, there is no denying, but that does not invalidates what MF said.

As for the two players technical skill, I don't believe LD's net play is better. But I believe is deception is better. LD's anticipation is for me tactical. He is a more clever player, and mentally much stronger. But still, I believe what MF said in WC 11 is correct.

 

[renbo]

Nice rejoinder. That's why Lin Dan is my type of hero, not LCW.

Yes Justin, you are the type who likes heroes. Not every one does

 

[galaxyduo]

From the year before WC 2011, the H2H is LCW 2 LD 1. There was momentum for LCW.

Renbo, so you just cherry pick one year? If we cherry picked 2013, LD has a 100% win rate against LCW.

 

[Jonc108]

he's talking about match fixing by CHN teams. not superior CHN teams.

correct me if i'm wrong.

I know what he wants to talk.

Yet this kinds of so-called "match-fixing" is one kind of injustice caused by superiority, you could only break it by beating them in the court.

the success of Thai and Spain's WS in last and this years' WC and Japan's success in this year's TC reach taught Malaysia, Denmark and India a lesson: Save your whining around, work hard to break in by sports means on the court. Only coward will want to find all kinds of excuses.

I am an athlete in many sports, as an athlete, you should be prepared to accept that every match is individual, your opponents could be weak, strong, tired, motivated, im-motivated... etc. for all kinds of reason, not necessarily be stronger because their last round got a bye (by someone of or not of their teammate), they could be rusty becoz of that.... all you should do is to make sure yourself is strong, in good form, and trained well to face every challenge...

as a real athlete, you should also have a desire to beat as more good opponents as possible, not to hope for an easy way out by means of limiting better players' participation...

if you love a sports, you should love to see more good players in action, not full of mediocre ones just out of political consideration of so-called equal participation. Many ppl love to watch Michael Jordon, Larry Bird, the Dream, ... all sorts of American NBA players, even they are not of their nationality.. yet in this sports of badminton, ppl would say boring or quest for limitation of participation of better players just becoz they are too good....

what a cursed sports!!!!

 

[demolidor]

If you "love sports" you would also want to see real matches, not glorified exhibition matches between same country opponents ...
That is his issue, not that one country dominates [the NBA is trying their hardest to expand the game internationally since you brought basketball into it; they know that that is the only way too grow, total (enduring) domination is not a wishful situation but hey only the olympic medal count counts ). If this was club football, two opponents from the same country would be rivals, not playing in a pecking order for the next round.

 

[demolidor]

Of course the NBA does not equal Team USA and has different interests (Team USA also is an afterthought in NBA terms). It may or may not be in China's interest to expand badminton in terms of $$$ as long as the gold medals keep coming in. At some point though it could finally run the actual risk of getting cut from the Olympics and *poof*: no more medals. Badminton Europe is certainly doing it's part to expand and improve badminton in Europe (and beyond) with their training centers and exchange programs and summer camps ...
When other countries don't get success, they don't get funding and how are they going to improve from there? Kind of a chicken and egg situation I suppose: success brings funding but funding is "needed" (first) to bring success

I guess one thing Team USA and Team China have in common: there are a lot of people out there hoping for an upset every time !

 

[scorpion1]

I know what he wants to talk.

Yet this kinds of so-called "match-fixing" is one kind of injustice caused by superiority, you could only break it by beating them in the court.

the success of Thai and Spain's WS in last and this years' WC and Japan's success in this year's TC reach taught Malaysia, Denmark and India a lesson: Save your whining around, work hard to break in by sports means on the court. Only coward will want to find all kinds of excuses.

I am an athlete in many sports, as an athlete, you should be prepared to accept that every match is individual, your opponents could be weak, strong, tired, motivated, im-motivated... etc. for all kinds of reason, not necessarily be stronger because their last round got a bye (by someone of or not of their teammate), they could be rusty becoz of that.... all you should do is to make sure yourself is strong, in good form, and trained well to face every challenge...

as a real athlete, you should also have a desire to beat as more good opponents as possible, not to hope for an easy way out by means of limiting better players' participation...

if you love a sports, you should love to see more good players in action, not full of mediocre ones just out of political consideration of so-called equal participation. Many ppl love to watch Michael Jordon, Larry Bird, the Dream, ... all sorts of American NBA players, even they are not of their nationality.. yet in this sports of badminton, ppl would say boring or quest for limitation of participation of better players just becoz they are too good....

what a cursed sports!!!!

Thanks jonc for including india among the elite list. We are nowhere near denmark or malaysia or china or indonesia. Infact we created history by winning bronze medal in uber cup for the first time. Not like as if you are talking about lesson. Infact, japan really taught a lesson to CHINA . I am wondering how come you forgot that . Again this time we got another bronze medal in WC which is also a history.

As a badminton fan, I must agree your point that saina should not have gone to media. That is not good. But also I should tell that li xuerui should not have attacked saina for that.. Though saina's statement was generalised one , li xuerui personnally attacked saina. That's not fair on her part. Within 48 hours, she paid the price. She lost to a non-chinese player again.

 

[mindreader]

The numbers quoted are not showing what we discuss here. From the year before WC 2011, the H2H is LCW 2 LD 1. There was momentum for LCW.
After WC, there was two tournaments played without spirit (I was there for the final at HK open, it was played without any kind of intensity.) In All Eng 2012, LCW retired injured.
Then there was the OLY 2012 and WC 2013. LD won both of them, there is no denying, but that does not invalidates what MF said.

As for the two players technical skill, I don't believe LD's net play is better. But I believe is deception is better. LD's anticipation is for me tactical. He is a more clever player, and mentally much stronger. But still, I believe what MF said in WC 11 is correct.

Oh wow, two wins (and not even two wins in a row) is "momentum." Once again, why stop there? So what if he won two in a row? Not just momentum, but a winning streak, I suppose?

As far as what Frost said, no one tournament does not invalidate what he said. Except it's not one tournament is it. I mean, Lee Chong Wei must have the worst luck on earth. Bad thing just keep happening to him and only him. Boggles the mind.

 

[kenjai7373]

I don't know who you mean by LCW fan boys. I am not in the lot though, because I personaly like LD much more then I like LCW.
In fact, to reduce this topic to who you like the most, and commenting according to one's preference, is what some criticized with MF. So you should not replicate that fault.
I said LCW, post 08 OLY, slowly progressed in his encounter with LD. The was a curb, peaking in 2012-2012. The change did not happen all of a sudden in october 2008.
Now some of you might consider in 11 and 12 LD was still above LCW not only in their H2H, but in their overall performances. But that you cannot fathom why other people believe the opposite just show you are the biased one, not MF

none of your posts indicates u like ld in anyway. in fact, u keep making condescending remarks on chinese system and anything chinese in general that is sickening, just like your idol morten frost does with ld. you are even more biased than frost

 

[renbo]

Oh wow, two wins (and not even two wins in a row) is "momentum." Once again, why stop there? So what if he won two in a row? Not just momentum, but a winning streak, I suppose?

As far as what Frost said, no one tournament does not invalidate what he said. Except it's not one tournament is it. I mean, Lee Chong Wei must have the worst luck on earth. Bad thing just keep happening to him and only him. Boggles the mind.

I don't cherry pick guys. MF said that at that moment (WC 11) LCW was the best. What we are debatting (in case you forgot) was that MF was (or was not) biased when he said so. I believe his opinion was sound, argumented. You just had to follow badminton during that period to realise it.

 

[renbo]

none of your posts indicates u like ld in anyway. in fact, u keep making condescending remarks on chinese system and anything chinese in general that is sickening, just like your idol morten frost does with ld. you are even more biased than frost

i moved to China in 1993 and never left. I made studying this culture my work. i am teaching sinology for more then a decade. i criticize the CBA as everyone is entitled to do, and actually does here in China.
To love blindly is to be a fool. I criticize what I would like to be corrected that's it.
You should check your mouth.

 

[renbo]

Thanks jonc for including india among the elite list. We are nowhere near denmark or malaysia or china or indonesia. Infact we created history by winning bronze medal in uber cup for the first time. Not like as if you are talking about lesson. Infact, japan really taught a lesson to CHINA . I am wondering how come you forgot that . Again this time we got another bronze medal in WC which is also a history.

As a badminton fan, I must agree your point that saina should not have gone to media. That is not good. But also I should tell that li xuerui should not have attacked saina for that.. Though saina's statement was generalised one , li xuerui personnally attacked saina. That's not fair on her part. Within 48 hours, she paid the price. She lost to a non-chinese player again.

I agree that Saina's opinion is legitimate, but LXR's answer is not, being personal. Whatever we think of Saina's opinion on that matter, it is her right to speak it.

 

[Justin L]

LXR personally attacked Saina? Not just responding to Saina who first attacked and specifically targeting CHN badminton as a whole ?

And because of that she had to pay the price of losing to a non-CHN player who has not said anything in support of Saina's proposition - where is the connection, what's the logic ? Scorpion, your thinking is warped and pathetically mean.

Of course, Saina has her right to express her view, so do LXR in reply. If Saina's proposal s accepted, do you realised how many CHN players will suffer, have their careers dented through no fault of theirs but simply for being too good at the sport they loved? Why do so many CHN players and indirectly their coaches have to pay a heavy price for what, for the 'sin' of striving for excellence ?

 

[Justin L]

CHN with her huge badminton population and inviting foreign players to their domestic league, hosting various events including the just-concluded Youth Olympics, apart from their international tournament successes which at the same time continually raise the standard of badminton, what with their sponsors' unstinting support not just in CHN but all over the whole, particularly by Li-Ning, and,yes, ex-CHN coaches and players providing their services to other countries - all these are not promotions, popularizations and contributions to the sport, then, pray, what is ?

Just ask any casual, recreational badminton players who they know in badminton, the answer is invariably Lin Dan and a few are also able to name LCW because of their perpetual rivalry. I don't think I need to elaborate more.

 

[Justin L]

As an aside, didn't Lan Ping, to cite just one example among many, went to USA and helped raise their standard of volleyball to such an extent that they started to beat the CHN women on the world stage ?

 

[renbo]

Justin, that is not the question. Of course you can strongly disagree with SN's opinion, but it is an opinion about how should be the BWF. LXR's answer on the other side was about SN's morality (she don't want to work like LCW), which is not correct

 

[Justin L]

Justin, that is not the question. Of course you can strongly disagree with SN's opinion, but it is an opinion about how should be the BWF. LXR's answer on the other side was about SN's morality (she don't want to work like LCW), which is not correct

renbo, you baffle me and your intention with this post is not worth rebutting, I'm sorry to say. I just hope your anti-CHN sentiment doesn't get the better of your good sense and balanced view of matters.

 

[scorpion1]

Justin, that is not the question. Of course you can strongly disagree with SN's opinion, but it is an opinion about how should be the BWF. LXR's answer on the other side was about SN's morality (she don't want to work like LCW), which is not correct

Indeed. If a questioner asked you about a subject, if the player instead of answering that question, attacking the concerned player will not be a good sign. And also She indulged LCW's name here. Very funny.

She thinks that she is not beatable. That's why she came with such a suggestion to saina. If she is losing to non-chinese player, how good is to advice to saina about the same.. she will think twice before talking anything personally about players..

 

[yamsyams]

Indeed. If a questioner asked you about a subject, if the player instead of answering that question, attacking the concerned player will not be a good sign. She was talking about LCW here. How come when she herself is indulging in word wars, she should not advice saina to not to talk. She thinks that she is not beatable. That's why she came with such a suggestion to saina. If she is losing to non-chinese player, how good is to advice to saina about the same.. she will think twice before talking anything personally about players..

Your blind bias towards SN knows no ends.

The subject at hand is Saina's comments to curb Chinese participation. The answer from LXR is that SN should train harder to beat them instead of complaining left right and center to limit the participation of players who are better than her. That is exactly answering the question.

Neither of the articles that I have read (here and here) mentions anything about LXR referring to LCW, do you have a source for that?

And LXR is completely right. If SN can't even beat one Chinese player in this tournament, she has no business winning titles regardless of limits on the entries. Look at Marin, none of this sour grape nonsense despite the fact that she had to face both WYH and LXR. She just goes on court and plays. You just cannot separate match results from a person's opinions, can you? Just because LXR lost doesn't mean her opinion is any less correct. Had LXR won, would anything she says automatically become gospel?

 

[Devendra]

Your blind bias towards SN knows no ends.

The subject at hand is Saina's comments to curb Chinese participation. The answer from LXR is that SN should train harder to beat them instead of complaining left right and center to limit the participation of players who are better than her. That is exactly answering the question.

Neither of the articles that I have read (here and here) mentions anything about LXR referring to LCW, do you have a source for that?

And LXR is completely right. If SN can't even beat one Chinese player in this tournament, she has no business winning titles regardless of limits on the entries. Look at Marin, none of this sour grape nonsense despite the fact that she had to face both WYH and LXR. She just goes on court and plays. You just cannot separate match results from a person's opinions, can you? Just because LXR lost doesn't mean her opinion is any less correct. Had LXR won, would anything she says automatically become gospel?

I agree. I have never liked Saina's sportsmanship. I am absolutely confident that Sindhu will go further than Saina.
Also she did say about LCW after beating Saina. She said that "if you work hard, you can beat anyone. Instead of complaining Saina should work harder. Just see LCW and his attitude."