2016 Rio Olympic Games : Day-9 (19th August) - WS & MD Gold Medal, WS Bronze Medal, MS Semifinals

super-g said:
The problem with this list is that it is only your opinion, not a fact. Some people really think their opinions are facts. Many people would only count world championships and olympics, and there is nothing wrong with that.
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so may I know your criteria / standard to decide the GOAT ?
 
ssj100 said:
I think you need to re-read the point I was trying to make with your 2 vs 1 argument mate hehe. You appear to have completely missed the point!
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then why do you proud of Marin's success of 3 major titles if your another silly analogy is less is better ? :p

LLW 2 WC titles vs Marin 1 WC in odd year, so who is better ? :D
 
ssj100 said:
Interesting. Is that because she'd have the same number of Olympic Golds as Zhang Nin, but more World Champs? If so, you're putting the Olympics very high, which I suppose is fair enough.
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who has the same OG title with Zhang Ning ?
 
Don't mix up singles and doubles. Comparing the two disciplines is like comparing apples and oranges.

To me, it's not the right time to discuss Chen Long or Marin's status immediately after the Olympics as emotions are still running high and our judgments tend to be affected by the impact of the present moment.

Let things cool down for a while so that we can see things in better perspective.

Offhand, I would say Marin's case for GOAT is weak as other than the three majors she won, 2 WC and 1 OG, her records in other important aspects such as tournaments/titles won and H2H with rivals are unenviable or unimpressive. Give her more time, it's too early or premature to argue a case for her.

I recall the then 21-year-old Li Xuerui in 2012, her tournament victories, her record series of match victories, culminating in the London Olympic triumph at her maiden attempt - she was practically all-conquering from the beginning of the Olympic year to the moment she stepped onto the winners' podium for Olympic gold, a fairy-tale run, a most impressive, mind-blowing performance that have all of us wondering in amazement what greater feats she's not capable of. Someone here even claimed she would outdo Lin Dan one day and a famous sport writer, Dev Sukumar, came out with a piece entitled. Li Xuerui: A great at 21? http://www.sportskeeda.com/badminton/li-xuerui-a-great-at-21

To be honest, Marin's performance in the Rio Olympic year pales in comparison with Li Xuerui's.
 
This olympics WS competition is much stronger compared to 4 years back.

If a 10th ranked player (P.V Sindhu) could beat World no. 6 , World No.8 and World No.2 before going down to World no.1 not before giving a good fight shows how competitive this Olympics is.
 
Justin L said:
Don't mix up singles and doubles. Comparing the two disciplines is like comparing apples and oranges.

To me, it's not the right time to discuss Chen Long or Marin's status immediately after the Olympics as emotions are still running high and our judgments tend to be affected by the impact of the present moment.

Let things cool down for a while so that we can see things in better perspective.

Offhand, I would say Marin's case for GOAT is weak as other than the three majors she won, 2 WC and 1 OG, her records in other important aspects such as tournaments/titles won and H2H with rivals are unenviable or unimpressive. Give her more time, it's too early or premature to argue a case for her.

I recall the then 21-year-old Li Xuerui in 2012, her tournament victories, her record series of match victories, culminating in the London Olympic triumph at her maiden attempt - she was practically all-conquering from the beginning of the Olympic year to the moment she stepped onto the winners' podium for Olympic gold, a fairy-tale run, a most impressive, mind-blowing performance that have all of us wondering in amazement what greater feats she's not capable of. Someone here even claimed she would outdo Lin Dan one day and a famous sport writer, Dev Sukumar, came out with a piece entitled. Li Xuerui: A great at 21? http://www.sportskeeda.com/badminton/li-xuerui-a-great-at-21

To be honest, Marin's performance in the Rio Olympic year pales in comparison with Li Xuerui's.
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That's true, but there are three points in the argument for Marin as GOAT that we should consider : first Marin has been the champion for the biggest titles three years in a row (WCx2 and Oly), which makes her performance quite a lasting one ; second her style brings something new to WS, and third she comes from Spain, a savage land in badminton terms.
I mention this just for the sake of the argument, as personally I don't regard Marin as GOAT. (I have no opinion on who is GOAT in WS).
 
renbo said:
That's true, but there are three points in the argument for Marin as GOAT that we should consider : first Marin has been the champion for the biggest titles three years in a row (WCx2 and Oly), which makes her performance quite a lasting one ; second her style brings something new to WS, and third she comes from Spain, a savage land in badminton terms.
I mention this just for the sake of the argument, as personally I don't regard Marin as GOAT. (I have no opinion on who is GOAT in WS).
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Again, you overlooked all of Marin's recent losses to WSX (3x), WYH(2x), Saina(1), Sindhu(1), Nozomi Okuhara(3x), (etc?), just to put things in perspective.
 
Baddyforall said:
This olympics WS competition is much stronger compared to 4 years back.

If a 10th ranked player (P.V Sindhu) could beat World no. 6 , World No.8 and World No.2 before going down to World no.1 not before giving a good fight shows how competitive this Olympics is.
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I beg to differ, London 2012 is stronger - Li Xuerui, Wang Yihan, Wang Xin, Saina Nehwal, Tine Baun, Juliane Schenk, Sung Ji Hyun, Bae Yeon Joo , and one or two others were all on top of their game, not to mention Pi Hongyan, Yao Jie, Sayaka Sato, Cheng Shao-chieh, and, if you like, the young Intanon R, Tai TY, and Marin herself (who lost to LXR).
 
renbo said:
That's true, but there are three points in the argument for Marin as GOAT that we should consider : first Marin has been the champion for the biggest titles three years in a row (WCx2 and Oly), which makes her performance quite a lasting one ; second her style brings something new to WS, and third she comes from Spain, a savage land in badminton terms.
I mention this just for the sake of the argument, as personally I don't regard Marin as GOAT. (I have no opinion on who is GOAT in WS).
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I still can't believe we'll be calling a Spanish girl the World and Olympic Badminton Champion for at least the next year or so. It's truly remarkable what she's achieved - as you say, for the last 3 consecutive years, she seems to have the ability to peak at the right time for the biggest titles. I really don't know how she's done it. Has she had any training outside of Spain etc? Like surely there must be some China/Indonesia/Korea/Denmark influence on her training? Anyone know?
 
My favourite players in WS are Ratchanok (ex-World Champion) and Okuhara (current AE Champion), but I have to admit that Marin at her peak easily beats them both at their respective peaks. They basically have to rely on Marin having an off day. I really don't want to admit that, but I cannot deny what I see when Marin plays near or at her best.
 
Baddyforall said:
This olympics WS competition is much stronger compared to 4 years back.

If a 10th ranked player (P.V Sindhu) could beat World no. 6 , World No.8 and World No.2 before going down to World no.1 not before giving a good fight shows how competitive this Olympics is.
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Yes, it's obvious how competitive WS has been over the last 4 years. You just have to look at the number of titles top China players such as Wang Yihan and Wang Shixian won over the last 2 years - none? And LXR who should have been peaking only won 2 titles in 2015 and 2 titles in 2016 (so far I guess). Even Marin who has won all the big ones in the last 3 years has only won 2 titles this year (although she did win 6 titles in 2015, including All England and World Champs). The other big-ish titles have been spread across several others, including Okuhara, Ratchanok, and TTY.

Also not sure if anyone has realised that PVS has never even won a single Super Series title (has only made one final I think). And yet she came relatively close to winning Olympic Gold! I don't know how anyone could say it's less competitive now (over the last 2 years especially) than eg. back in 2010-2012.
 
ssj100 said:
I still can't believe we'll be calling a Spanish girl the World and Olympic Badminton Champion for at least the next year or so. It's truly remarkable what she's achieved - as you say, for the last 3 consecutive years, she seems to have the ability to peak at the right time for the biggest titles. I really don't know how she's done it. Has she had any training outside of Spain etc? Like surely there must be some China/Indonesia/Korea/Denmark influence on her training? Anyone know?
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If you cycle your PEDs correctly, you ill peek very precisely. Pro bodybuilders/powerlifters/weight lifters do it with almost one-day precision. That would be an explanation for her mysterious winning streaks at one event and mediocrity for the other 11 months of the year. I'm not accusing her of that, mind you. It's just the Occam's razor explanation as to why an athlete from a country with no other world class player, no history in the sport and no recent new coach from a world class badminton nation peeks at the most important event of the year 3 years in a row, playing a very physical game that relies on overpowering and outspeeding the opponent.
Once again - it's not an accusation, or even a suggestion. Informing yourself about the possibilities and scope of doping leaves you a little jaded, though, and acquiring the help of a good pharmacist is easier than getting a world class coach, and will give you better results 100% of the time.

Personally I'd rather believe this sport is still clean and that she just has this uncanny ability to prepare incredibly well, and that the spanish coach is actually something of a mastermind that just has no other decent athlete to work with to show his aptitude.
 
ssj100 said:
Yes, it's obvious how competitive WS has been over the last 4 years. You just have to look at the number of titles top China players such as Wang Yihan and Wang Shixian won over the last 2 years - none? And LXR who should have been peaking only won 2 titles in 2015 and 2 titles in 2016 (so far I guess). Even Marin who has won all the big ones in the last 3 years has only won 2 titles this year (although she did win 6 titles in 2015, including All England and World Champs). The other big-ish titles have been spread across several others, including Okuhara, Ratchanok, and TTY.

Also not sure if anyone has realised that PVS has never even won a single Super Series title (has only made one final I think). And yet she came relatively close to winning Olympic Gold! I don't know how anyone could say it's less competitive now (over the last 2 years especially) than eg. back in 2010-2012.
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One example is enough. There are so many super series winners nowadays than 4 years back. That's enough to show how competitive these days.
All the players including chinese accepted the fact that level of top 15 players has gone up and everybody is playing their own style of play.
 
j4ckie said:
If you cycle your PEDs correctly, you ill peek very precisely. Pro bodybuilders/powerlifters/weight lifters do it with almost one-day precision. That would be an explanation for her mysterious winning streaks at one event and mediocrity for the other 11 months of the year. I'm not accusing her of that, mind you. It's just the Occam's razor explanation as to why an athlete from a country with no other world class player, no history in the sport and no recent new coach from a world class badminton nation peeks at the most important event of the year 3 years in a row, playing a very physical game that relies on overpowering and outspeeding the opponent.
Once again - it's not an accusation, or even a suggestion. Informing yourself about the possibilities and scope of doping leaves you a little jaded, though, and acquiring the help of a good pharmacist is easier than getting a world class coach, and will give you better results 100% of the time.

Personally I'd rather believe this sport is still clean and that she just has this uncanny ability to prepare incredibly well, and that the spanish coach is actually something of a mastermind that just has no other decent athlete to work with to show his aptitude.
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But she was exceptional last year and even Chen long was mediocre this year losing all his matches early. Her oncourt demeanour is not at all good. This definitely has an effect on opponents similar to archery where if you play against Korean players, you may notice the coach of Korea makes so much noise before the opponent plays. That will surely distract even good players.
 
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