A Classic for LCW

pjswift said:
In another thread, my guess is LD conceded to Bao but not for the reason boopathy floated.CHN dared not let LD play LCW as it has to be a must-win for LD because LCW has the distinct disadvantage of injury. And CHN's not too sure LD can win, seeing how lightning quick all his other FO matches were.So they sent BCL for testing.Since BCL lost, fans will say it's expected. If BCL had won,then they can say, 'See,BCL is good enough,that's why LD can just be a spectator.' That's what they tried to do in IO07.It's a no-lose situation except for the MS title.If they had sent LD,it may turn out to be an end of the Super dan image.
What I don't understand is how come Boopathy didn't realise that when a tier 1 player is injured, he becomes vulnerable even to tier 2 or 3 players.
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Lin Dan was sent to test LCW in Japan open... noticed how he was playing basically quite similar to Bao's style(try to see that, it's not difficult), and Bao was on court side watching and giving advice to Lin Dan.

Now they sent Bao to the final with LCW, partially due to the fact that Bao does need more ranking point considering Bao, CJ and CY do need more ranking points to secure the remaining 2 spots of the top 4... as #1 is Lin Dan's, and when they noticed LCW beat CJ... they have to let Bao get up there or there will be a larger gap between Bao and LCW which doesn't help China secure 3 out of the top 4 spot.

Just look at Gao/ZB's case, it is the same thing... you really think China worries about hurting Gao/ZB's image if they were to lose to Flandy/Vita???
 
eaglehelang

yes Misbun is a damn good coach, Roslin won Japan open in 2001, Hafiz the AE in 2003 and now Lee Chong Wei.

On your question of Li Mao and Misbun?

I guess Li Mao worked on Lee's speed,power and reflex as well as tactics and overall skill.

Misbun, I believe imparted that special Misbun magic feel that Misbun possessed at the start of his career. Malaysian who had seen Misbun in his heydays know this not to mention Morten Frost, Liem Swee King, Icuk, Prakash and Han Jian.

That magic includes those wristy delayed lobs, cross court chop, cross net drops.

Han Jian in his Star column in the 80s said that Misbun's had the best of what he called "attacking" lobs amongst Morten , Yang Yang, Liem and Rudy. This 'attcking' lob is the delayed punch clear to the base line which confuses the opponent as whether to return a lob or smash. you can see this in the game between LCW and LD in JO and against Taufik.
 
sonnymak said:
eaglehelang

yes Misbun is a damn good coach, Roslin won Japan open in 2001, Hafiz the AE in 2003 and now Lee Chong Wei.

On your question of Li Mao and Misbun?

I guess Li Mao worked on Lee's speed,power and reflex as well as tactics and overall skill.

Misbun, I believe imparted that special Misbun magic feel that Misbun possessed at the start of his career. Malaysian who had seen Misbun in his heydays know this not to mention Morten Frost, Liem Swee King, Icuk, Prakash and Han Jian.

That magic includes those wristy delayed lobs, cross court chop, cross net drops.

Han Jian in his Star column in the 80s said that Misbun's had the best of what he called "attacking" lobs amongst Morten , Yang Yang, Liem and Rudy. This 'attcking' lob is the delayed punch clear to the base line which confuses the opponent as whether to return a lob or smash. you can see this in the game between LCW and LD in JO and against Taufik.
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1) TQ, Misbun's playing days was waaayyy before my time :D.
I was wondering why people said Misbun not so good coach if compared to Li Mao when after just a couple months under Misbun LCW upped his game.
I believe Misbun has helped LCW tactically and Li Mao technical aspects.

Or Hafiz aka Mr Yoyo spoiled Misbun's reputation....

2) Roslin was also World No 1 at one time I think.
 
Agree with you! The success (if we can call it "success" now... or maybe I should say "the rising to top level": beating 5 decent opponents in such an easy way, even LD cannot do better) of LCW should be contributed to both Li Mao and Misbun. LCW is lucky in the sense that he has been trained by best coaches of two different styles, and he managed to learn much from both. :cool:

Misbun alone cannot do the magic. Sorry Malaysian fans, I really think Hafiz was quite lucky in AE 2003, CH suffered his usual "mind shut-down" half way in the match. :)

Suggestion: all Mas players should start with Chinese coaches and train Chinese style. When they are say 20, they can choose their own coach. :D

sonnymak said:
eaglehelang

yes Misbun is a damn good coach, Roslin won Japan open in 2001, Hafiz the AE in 2003 and now Lee Chong Wei.

On your question of Li Mao and Misbun?

I guess Li Mao worked on Lee's speed,power and reflex as well as tactics and overall skill.

Misbun, I believe imparted that special Misbun magic feel that Misbun possessed at the start of his career. Malaysian who had seen Misbun in his heydays know this not to mention Morten Frost, Liem Swee King, Icuk, Prakash and Han Jian.

That magic includes those wristy delayed lobs, cross court chop, cross net drops.

Han Jian in his Star column in the 80s said that Misbun's had the best of what he called "attacking" lobs amongst Morten , Yang Yang, Liem and Rudy. This 'attcking' lob is the delayed punch clear to the base line which confuses the opponent as whether to return a lob or smash. you can see this in the game between LCW and LD in JO and against Taufik.
Click to expand...
 
eaglehelang

To appreciate Misbun's game, go to badminton video sharing in this forum at page 2. Look for 1982 world cup. Down load set 1 and set 3,That's the match between Misbun and Liem Swee king. too bad we cant download set 2 becuase of some technical fault. Use VLC media player to play it.

Also go to you tube and type "badminton 1983 grand prix misbun" there is part of his game there against icuk but quality quite bad.

Go to Veoh and search Badminton 1986 Thomas Cup Icuk Misbun but this game he played badly.

but people of my generation remember his game in 1988 Thomas cup against Icuk Sugiarto 2nd Set and you will see what LCW new game is all about. Still trying to get the video of the entire 5 matches between indonesia and Malaysia.
 
Too much conspiracy theory on LD losing to BCL to avoid playing LCW…we do not have the video to see play-by-play but the 3-set between LD and BCL does not suggest a fixed match. If the match was fixed, I would expect a straight set to rest BCL against an injured LCW. Simply put, on this Paris nights, LCW was formidable and there was nothing BCL and CJ could do.

Watch the match between BCL and LCW. Late in the second set, that LCW net drop shot retrieve (score 19-14 or something???) catching a stunned BCL out of position, was reminiscence of a classic ZJH trademark….what a beauty!!!

Misbun’s cool, calm demeanor suits LCW like ying yang, it is quite a touching sight to see LCW went straight to Misbun after he won and Misbun smiling like a papa hugging his son… LCW rally style has Misbun's signature all over it and now with 2 equally superb styles, OLY08 gold is hopeful, keep my fingers crossed that the mental part of the game of being rated co-favorite does not screw it up.

Prematurely, saying LCW will be WC and OLY champ or win this-and-that is putting more unneeded pressure to jinx him as if we never learn from the past and more like counting the chicks before the mama chick even goes on a blind date with papa chick (never mind the part “before they are hatched”)…hehehe!!!

I have followed MAS badminton for a long time from time growing up in MAS. Whether LCW win or not win majors before finishing up his career, I opine he is the second best MAS MS player I have ever seen, trouble is I could not figure out who is the best.
 
sonnymak said:
eaglehelang

To appreciate Misbun's game, go to badminton video sharing in this forum at page 2. Look for 1982 world cup. Down load set 1 and set 3,That's the match between Misbun and Liem Swee king. too bad we cant download set 2 becuase of some technical fault. Use VLC media player to play it.

Also go to you tube and type "badminton 1983 grand prix misbun" there is part of his game there against icuk but quality quite bad.

Go to Veoh and search Badminton 1986 Thomas Cup Icuk Misbun but this game he played badly.

but people of my generation remember his game in 1988 Thomas cup against Icuk Sugiarto 2nd Set and you will see what LCW new game is all about. Still trying to get the video of the entire 5 matches between indonesia and Malaysia.
Click to expand...

watched 1983 Grand Prix of Misbun in youtube. wow Misbun had solid defense like LCW.........especially that long rally which Misbun won in the 1st game. starting from minute 3:55. check it out...........http://youtube.com/watch?v=xsZGpnXzy5c
 
What I remember is the following: CH played comfortably in the 1st game but "shutdown" towards the end. In the 2nd game CH was lost, making many mistakes.

robin7 said:
I managed to watch the highlight of All England 2003 MS Final. Amazing Hafiz beat Chen Hong in straight sets 17-14, 15-10.:eek:
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Lin Dan lost to Bao Chun Lai in Rubber sets.

IMHO it should have been fair contest. If you can't accept China not match fixing......... then try to consider this case as an exception. let it rest.
 
robin7 said:
I managed to watch the highlight of All England 2003 MS Final. Amazing Hafiz beat Chen Hong in straight sets 17-14, 15-10.:eek:
Click to expand...
To me that game is a classic.
Not because of Hafiz won, but a display of 2 different style in the battle.
Hafiz played extremely beautiful badminton in that game and toying CH around.
 
bananakid said:
Lin Dan was sent to test LCW in Japan open... noticed how he was playing basically quite similar to Bao's style(try to see that, it's not difficult), and Bao was on court side watching and giving advice to Lin Dan.

Now they sent Bao to the final with LCW, partially due to the fact that Bao does need more ranking point considering Bao, CJ and CY do need more ranking points to secure the remaining 2 spots of the top 4... as #1 is Lin Dan's, and when they noticed LCW beat CJ... they have to let Bao get up there or there will be a larger gap between Bao and LCW which doesn't help China secure 3 out of the top 4 spot.

Just look at Gao/ZB's case, it is the same thing... you really think China worries about hurting Gao/ZB's image if they were to lose to Flandy/Vita???
Click to expand...
CHN players were in such poor shape in JO that LYB preferred to disappear.If donating ranking points is the reason, then why didn't it happen in DO final?The points in that match would be even more.So we can expect LD to give way to CHN MS for both CO and HKO since he does not need ranking points to stay on as WR1?
And who is GL/ZB? They are more up than down but they have no image to maintain. You see them as they are. With LD, he may not be as great as most fans think but because of his WR1 image, many players already lost before they play him for, in their minds, they deem him invincible.
 
sonnymak said:
eaglehelang

yes Misbun is a damn good coach, Roslin won Japan open in 2001, Hafiz the AE in 2003 and now Lee Chong Wei.

On your question of Li Mao and Misbun?

I guess Li Mao worked on Lee's speed,power and reflex as well as tactics and overall skill.

Misbun, I believe imparted that special Misbun magic feel that Misbun possessed at the start of his career. Malaysian who had seen Misbun in his heydays know this not to mention Morten Frost, Liem Swee King, Icuk, Prakash and Han Jian.

That magic includes those wristy delayed lobs, cross court chop, cross net drops.

Han Jian in his Star column in the 80s said that Misbun's had the best of what he called "attacking" lobs amongst Morten , Yang Yang, Liem and Rudy. This 'attcking' lob is the delayed punch clear to the base line which confuses the opponent as whether to return a lob or smash. you can see this in the game between LCW and LD in JO and against Taufik.
Click to expand...
It's great to have your input cos I have learnt a lot from your analysis.I'm only 5 years old in playing regular badminton and maybe 2 or 3 years here?There is much I don't know about badminton( and I believe many here could benefit from your knowledge about former greats) but i can ask questions.
One image that comes to mind about LCW is that he is a brilliant learner.He is keen to learn and easy to teach(lucky Misbun!)In a short space of time, he has made major progress in his gameplay.
How easy is it to hone new skills or rather, develop new weapons? Would sheer hard work be enough?
 
Inky2000 said:
Major points:

* BCL's fragile psyche has yet again been taken advantage of. This is the biggest failure of CHN team at French SS.

* Mr. Runnerup - didn't win any title since KO'06
- CO'06 lost to CH at final despite of beating LD at sf
- INA SS'07 lost LCW at final despite of beating TH at sf

* BCL has the techniques but his mild personality has given us an impression that he can't handle big missions
- inconsistent performances; can't handle pressure

* At French SS, BCL performed better than he was at DEN SS, at least beating LD who defeated him by a big margin last week

* LCW has replaced TH to become CHN's biggest threat at OG'08
- His defense is formidable, and he could vary his attacks
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Thanks, Inky.How about some balance here? Would you pls post what they wrote about BCL after his win over LCW in DO? Also would appreciate the computerised translation.
 
I stongly agree with u.. He really can pause the shuttle & deliver it to the righ place by confusing his opponent with his great deception play...

But this new style also also surprise the crowd when a great deception shuttle sending to his opponent.. This 1 more exciting..

MaLaYsIa Boleh! said:
with this new style..
LCW can play more calm..
coz he dun need to rush for the shuttle..
juz hold a sec and think wat shot is more confusing..
+ if he play not too fast, there will be less mistakes too..
he really dominant all the 4 corners of the french open court...
great to see his new style works,
but i think the previous fast & furious style giv the audience more excitement..
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Pj swift.

you can only improve to a point with hard work, you have to have a certain amount of talent to execute those combination of strokes.

All top 10 players can execute those strokes but due to national training philosophies, each contry emphaisze different sytles but the differences are not that marked these days.

Lin Dan also can play good rally sytle game but his inherent style is one of fast attack at the back, He also have good defence and dive to retrieve shots. But LD's body can obey LD's quick mind that's why he can reach the shuttle earlier than his opponent.

Prior to JO, LCW also played a fast attacking game with a little more skill and deft than LD but his psyche was a bit weak during pressurising moments and this made the difference between LD And LCW.

Pls note that LD always had to take 3 sets to beat LCW.

Time will tell whether LCW have slayed his own demons.

As for past greats, I would have to open another thread to discuss their style.

You can check out Misbun, Luan jin, Rudy hartono, Punch gunalan, Han Jian, Liem Swee king, Prakash Pradukone, Morten Zhao Jian Hua on you tube and Veoh and see how MS has evolved.

Too bad we cant find foo Kok Keong on youtube, the guy who gave us the cross court dive retrieval that you can see LD, LCW and some times TH doing. Maybe you should wait for IXORY uploading FKK vs Alan Budu Kusuma i badminton vid sharing thread
 
Many thanks, sonnymak.
Appreciate the details, the tactics esp. cos I haven't developed the analytical speed for that but I can see the big picture,the overall impression.
Am afraid have to disagree on the impression about LCW's 'weak moments'.Every player suffers from that; it's a matter of frequency.All top players are mentally strong.LCW's key problem is in his tactics but that's because he has so many weapons.The possible permutations of his play means he will have so many options it's hard for him to make the best decision; this leads to the impression of his 'faltering' moments.It has taken him a long while to get a good grip on his tactics and FO probably signifies that he has reached his tactics threshold.This means he is confident of his tactics.It seemed he experimented rather well in FO to the extent that most of his smashes were inside the court;no need to go for the lines, making him line judge-proof (useful in CO and HKO)but not the sj or umpire yet.But I could be wrong since it's an overall impression.
By the way,why does LD always need 3 games to defeat LCW?
 
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