Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

Are these "Net Touch" faults?

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by narnia, Oct 18, 2008.

  1. narnia

    narnia Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    DKF
    Treaky ones:

    1. Playing doubles, after the birdy already flew to my partner, I or my racqet touched the net unintentionally, carelessly, irrelevantly to the bird.

    2. My opponent returns and the bird flies up toward the net but it finally starts to fall to the side of the opponents passing the top of the net, my racquet touches the net.
     
  2. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,618
    Likes Received:
    251
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    Easy. :) (1) is a fault. (2) is not a fault, because the shuttle has already started to fall on the striker's side of the court, and is therefore no longer in play. Once the shuttle is not in play, you cannot make any more faults.
     
  3. Stinkiray

    Stinkiray Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Malaysia
    I'm not sure if the 2nd is not a fault, could you make it clearer?

    Do you mean:
    a)The shuttle is hit by your opponent, but the shuttle did not fly OVER (or pass) the net, and you touched the net.

    or

    b)The shuttle is hit by your opponent, and you managed to return it but you touch the net when the shuttle passes the top of the net?

    If a, then it's a fault. If b, then it's not

    And the first situation is definately a fault.
     
  4. Danstevens

    Danstevens Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,197
    Likes Received:
    5
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    To be honest, I would let 1.) go if I was umpiring as it didn't affect the rally in any way. This may be the "wrong" decision if you're just looking at the rulebook but common sense has to come in to play. If it doesn't interfere with the point, then surely there is no point calling it.
     
  5. hhwoot

    hhwoot Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Graduate Student
    Location:
    Urbana, IL
    Touching the net is a fault when the shuttle is in play, because it always has the possibility of affecting the play. Touching the net will make it vibrate and can drastically affect shuttles that fly near the top of the net.
     
  6. Matt

    Matt Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    IT Developer
    Location:
    Richmond, BC
    For the 2nd.

    I believe what he is saying is that the shuttle hit the net but it was enough to make the net move such that it touched his racket.
     
  7. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,096
    Likes Received:
    14
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    I don't agree.

    For the player who knows the rules, they will stop playing after the fault, therefore, it may make the "fault" side score an easy point, as the other side believe the play are done, and stopped.

    Also, by touching the net, the net is shaking, and what about the return is barely clear or tumpling over the net? Do you still say it's no effect? As long as there's a chance to effect the result, it should be a fault and stop play right there.
     
  8. Danstevens

    Danstevens Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,197
    Likes Received:
    5
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    OK, fair enough but if the touch had no effect whatsoever. This may not be possible because, as you say, the net more often than not will vibrate. But if there was absolutely no change in the rally caused by touching the net, I think the rally should continue. I don't like it when people interfere with rallies and providing the is no affect at all (this may not be possible but still,) there is no point stopping the rally. Agreed, touching the net is careless but I think I'd let it go if it made no change to anything. Perhaps in a really competitive match, I wouldn't let it go but if you're playing for points but just for fun, then I don't see much point in calling it. Even so, I see where you're coming from and if the touch had any effect, I'd call it but if not, most of the time, I'd let it go.
     
  9. narnia

    narnia Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    DKF
    Then, would it be fault if my opponent was positioned in front to get the falling bird? How can we judge if it is a situation in play or not in the perspecive of net touch?
     
  10. Resistor

    Resistor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Has far as I understand, as long as the shuttle is still in play (not on the ground) and you touches the net, it is a fault.
     
  11. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,618
    Likes Received:
    251
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    The shuttle is out of play if a fault has already occurred.

    For example: if you commit a fault on serve, it doesn't matter what I do next: I can hit the net; I can hit the shuttle twice. You still lose the rally, because you made the first fault.

    Similarly, it is a fault if the shuttle hits the net and starts to fall towards the striker's side of the court. If this happens, I can hit the net while the shuttle is still falling, but I haven't committed a fault (the shuttle was already out of play).

    If both sides are judged to make a fault at the same time, then a let will be played. This only really happens when both the server and receiver are faulted.
     
  12. Erik L.

    Erik L. Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    professor
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    First the Law-side of this discussion:
    I see that everybody agrees that (1) is a fault. The Law indeed says that it is a fault when a player touches the net with racket, person or dress while the shuttle is in play. Therefore we can close this part of the discussion.
    Wether we want (1) to be a fault in all cases is a different discussion entirely. I will come back to that later in this posting

    Situation (2) is not very well described.
    As I read it the following happend, the striker hit the shuttle, the shuttle flies upward, does not pass the net, does not touch the net and finally falls down on the strikers' side of the net.
    If that is what happend, play is not dead before the shuttle lands on the floor and touching the net with your racket before the shuttle lands on the floor is a fault.
    If the shuttle did not pass the net but touched the net and then started to fall down, touching the net with your racket after the shuttle touched the net is not a fault.
    After having touched the net, the shuttle is no longer in play when it starts to fall down on the strikers side of the net.

    Now back to Dan's point. First I wonder how even today e.g. Steen and Jesper would react when Dan makes a fault like that in e.g. a EVC final and I don't call. It would certainly be interesting to see what the Danish reaction would be.
    On the other hand I am not at all against making this situation a judgemant call as Dan suggests. As a result of quite a few changes to the Laws over the years, the function of the net has changed from an almost "Iron Curtain" like barrier between the to ends of the court to a much more "Shengen" like separation. Ther is more than enough proof to be found in the Laws substantiating this claim. With that in mind, I would certainly not be against some further research into this option.
    Ther are many Incorporating Dan's suggestion into Badminton Law is not at all as revolutionary as it may seem on first sight.
     
    #12 Erik L., Oct 21, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2008
  13. lorus_blue

    lorus_blue Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Philippines
    in situation #2, what if (the shuttle is somewhat a wee-bit below the net on the striker's side) by stroke of luck, a strong wind passes by and carried the shuttle over the net?
     
  14. Erik L.

    Erik L. Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    professor
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I don't think this is a realistic suggestion, but it could result into a legal stroke as well as into a let. This would be a judgement call.
     
  15. Shifty

    Shifty Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    3
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    New Zealand
    i think it's the other way around. if the shuttle hasn't crossed the net and falls down on his side, it's out of play. whereas if you touch the net while attempting a kill shot, then you'd be faulted for sure.
     
  16. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    United States
    I think for situation 2, it is not a fault if it is DISTINGUISHABLE by both sides that the bird will not, by any chance do a flip on the net and make it over. But if it looks like for some reason that it might be able to make it over still, touching the net is a fault because it'd be like pushing the net so the bird will fall on the other side. Not sure if that's clear enough for you. Kinda hard to explain, easier to show.
     
  17. Erik L.

    Erik L. Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    professor
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Wrong guys, touching the net always a fault, as long as the shuttle in in play. The shuttle will continue to be in play as long as it has not landed on the floor, or has touched the net and has started to fall down on the strikers side of the net. Even when it is clear that a shuttle shall not pass the net it will still be in play until one of these two criteria apply.
     
  18. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    United States
    From www.worldbadminton.com
    It is considered a fault when:
    13.3.10 touches a player's racket and does not travel towards the opponent's court

    A shuttle is not in play when:15.1 it strikes the net or post and starts to fall towards the surface of the court on the striker's side of the net
     
  19. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,618
    Likes Received:
    251
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    Not quite correct, because there are other criteria that cause faults, and the shuttle is deemed to be out of play as soon as any fault has occurred.

    For example, the shuttle is out of play when it "touches the person or dress of a player" (because this is a fault).
     
  20. Erik L.

    Erik L. Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    professor
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Correct, but is not relevant in this discussion.
     

Share This Page