Article: A Discussion on the Problematic Growth of Badminton in the San Francisco Bay

Discussion in 'vBCms Comments' started by MysticHLE, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    again, u sound naive and not in tune with reality.

    1. peter gade is a proprietory property, any joe blow clubs can't (legally) use his image for advertisement without compensation.

    2. football/basketball aren't free. U naively keep linking free or cheap sports to popularity of that sport. I already gave u many expensive sport are more popular than badminton. If u see people playing tag football or street basketball, then badminton is free too, it's call back yard badminton. Better yet, go to the park and play badminton with the footballers. U seem to want indoor courts with lines, high ceiling, good floors, good light, for free or else no badminton starters want to try badminton. There are plenty real examples that counter your argument. There are many more less well off youngsters in SE Asia and china but yet how come these countries have the best badminton pros? Their starters don't even complain playing with no shoes, steel racket and yet u whine and whine.

    3. u r whining because u see less and less low cost community and public gyms available while the private clubs expand. Do u know why? it's call wake up and smell the coffee. YOUR GOVERNMENT IS BROKE and IN DEBT, FEDERAL, STATE AND MUNICIPAL LEVELS. Those subsidized public facilities have to raise prices too or cancel session because they are getting less dough from the Terminator. U should thanks the private investors running those private clubs or else badminton in the US will goes downhill for sure. U r bashing things that are actually giving badminton a leg up.

    4. There were lots of cheap low costs facility in the US in the 70, 80, 90's . So where were your international grade american badminton players?
    Why badminton popularity gotten worst and worst? where are those starters?
     
    #21 cooler, Jun 16, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
  2. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    i got time out.

    4. There were lots of cheap low costs facilities in the US in the 70, 80, 90's . So where were your international grade american badminton players from those decades? Why had badminton popularity gotten worst and worst during those time? if no US pros, where were those starters turning to advance players from those periods?

    since u r looking for ways to play badminton on the cheap to being free, u should learn it from those black hairs people too.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l9rOEaJ7Ks (top view)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl6StbQFIco (ground level)
     
    #22 cooler, Jun 16, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
  3. eeyore12345

    eeyore12345 Regular Member

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    wow... Indeed, the preaching about Econ is not cool. Most of us here took Econ before. Also, if you really want to talk about Econ, go consult with Yee Ong. lol. I actually agree with the author. Basketball courts are free and tennis courts are free. You can play golf for free if not picky and soccer too. The entry into playing badminton is costly. The birds cost money and also the rackets. If you want people to start playing, you got to give them incentive. If i'm a beginner and I started playing badminton, I would never ever spend more than 5 bucks to open gym. And there are only a certain people who have the money to spend. I thought badminton used to be popular in the US around the 1950s. Its strange, cause whenever I see a gym that is packed, people always want to stay there and be there. Whenever the gym is empty, people tend to not want to play. For all you people who say they want court time. Go to ICC or Pleasanton or even Z badminton for a day. And then go to CBA and you'll know what I'm talking about.
     
  4. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    It's really a strange (and unique) experience indeed. In my experience, people would try to avoid gyms that are packed if they have a choice. They pick one gym over another because the gym is "empty". But these people have their own playing groups. :rolleyes: I'd not bother to go/play if I know a particular time slot(s) a particular gym is jam-packed.

    Some gyms are empty possibly for a good reason. Are you saying ICC or Pleasanton gym rather empty? And are those gyms charging a lower price? And if you're a starter, and find a gym empty, would you not invite your own friend(s) to go with you, rather than go alone? And if you can't someone to go with you, even though courts are cheaply available and plenty, would you wonder maybe there're other reasons to explain why you can't find a companion to play with?

    And I thought Cooler's Youtube videos are interesting. How much do you think those people in China (in the video) are earning? They appear to have lots of fun playing in the parks, without lines and net, and subject their plays to winds (note: not draft you'd find in an A/C gym). Rackets are probably cheap, and the birdies probably plastic. They get by and have fun! How come?? Not able to afford "more expensive" membership or drop-in prices don't seem to bother them? Are there any other factors influencing their choice? And I'm not even sure if these people have anything in mind about earning a living out of playing badminton either.

    Maybe, just maybe, for any sport to be popular, you first need a hero (like Pete Sampas in tennis, Mike Jordan in basketball), and to show that your country actually can make it. I got an impression that TV/media usually cover Olympic events that U.S. can do well. Until only recently, U.S. didn't do too well in badminton, so no media coverage. Could it be a reason? I also notice some parents pick an activity for their kids because they think it would help the kids to get college scholarship, or enter a college that recognize the sports (or has its school team). Well, back-tracking from here, maybe we should ask how we can get the colleges to start their badminton teams and do the same as their football, basketball, swimming teams.

    And maybe we need better tournament sponsorships. Major events like tennis in U.S. could award up to over a million top prize. People playing in major leagues in baseball, or in golf (look at Tiger Wood) could earn millions. Could it be the dream of earning millions that motivates people? This could be a vicious cycle.

    Maybe one day all of these would happen, but today we first need to make our players strong. Openings of these new clubs, with more court time for training, and with higher caliber coaching are maybe in the right direction after all. The general play level has much improved. With limited court time and coaching, this previously would be an impossible dream.

    So here is a scenario - the first group of people that break the vicious cycle perhaps are the better-to-do group, that can afford the membership, and coaching since they're very young, like 6-7 years old. One day, some of them actually want to turn pros. And again, some of them actually bring joy and pride to the country. People admire them, and want to watch and follow their events. TV starts covering their matches, as now broadcast business find they'd have audience for their commercial. The sport starts to get popular. Tournaments of increasing prize money are organized, as organizer finds a bigger and bigger crowd would come to push their own agenda (that has nothing to do with promoting the sport). And now you've the momentum.

    But you notice that this scenario doesn't start with the "starters". These starters you refer to are "followers". They need leaders to interest them. And then they would go out to the street and part and backyard to play the sport.

    So maybe I still don't get it. Yes, it is a good idea to discuss about how to make badminton more popular here in U.S. But no, I still don't agree/get the original thesis. I realize I'm just rambling here. I don't have any desire to write a rigorous thesis.:p
     
  5. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    if u say u know econ., then explain why cheap entry sports like soccer, basketball, football, baseball, tennis which are all quite popular in the US are not popular in less well to do countries like malaysia, china, indonesia, vietnam, india where badminton seem to be more popular? if price of entry dictates popularity of sports or any other activity, why kids/teens do smokes, do drugs? i can assure u their parents don't encourage them nor give them money to do those expensive activities. Can u use economic to explain that?
     
    #25 cooler, Jun 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  6. druss

    druss Regular Member

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    All this back and forth on economic factors doesn't tell you anything. You could make the best and biggest badminton facilities free with good free rackets and shuttles and you still won't make it as popular as football, soccer, baseball... etc. with the average american or canadian. The north american culture just precludes it.
     
  7. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    u are getting warm.
     
  8. Paul_A

    Paul_A Regular Member

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    if the gyms are packed with $8 drop in than how is this bad for badminton? If the gym is still packed with $50 drop in than how is this bad for badminton? As long as the gyms are packed and more and more centers are opening up I don't see how any pricing should matter. In fact the higher people are willing to pay should bring more money into the sport which is in my eyes is good.

    The only problem I see is the Asian dominance.
     
  9. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    well, when and if badminton get to be very popular in the US and WC, AE, super series tickets start costing like pro basketball, tennis, and hockey games, these same people will whine about high ticket prices hurting badminton too.
     
  10. eeyore12345

    eeyore12345 Regular Member

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    If you have forgotten. One of the factor is "taste and preferences". If you have forgotten that, you can go and look it up. It's great to know that you know Econ but you're only covering the surface of Econ and there are more to it than just demand and supply. Taste, prediction, weather, etc plays a big factor in the demand curve. Asian likes badminton because there are less contact. The game is towards their advantages. Do you think a 5'5'' 115lbs boy would like to play american football or basketball where they can never dunk the basket? Do you think it is cheap to play Tennis and baseball or even basketball in other countries? No, it isn't. Badminton is popular in the asian countries because they can actually play with cheap rackets which cost roughly 1 buck. I don't think any tennis rackets or baseball bats are cost that less.


    To raymond: I think it's just group preferences. Younger players tend to want to be at a club which have more players. the reason why there is no one at ICC or pleasanton is because there aren't good players to start with. If you are going to compare, then you should compare for all players not just adults. Also, it is hard to find a partner to hit with because a lot of them prefer places closer to them. It is just like a fight, you get more adrenaline and energy when you play in a crowd rather than playing with one or two buddies. also, according to the original post we are talking about quality over quantity. Yes, you can find quantity time playing in gyms but there is not quality in the game. You only improve when you play against good players. Before, the gym were packed with lots of B and some A players around the clubs. Nowadays, it is rare to find a lot of good players in the same gym. But then, people can argue against that because skills varies among people.
     
    #30 eeyore12345, Jun 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  11. eeyore12345

    eeyore12345 Regular Member

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    higher price is not good because it doesn't do anything for the sport. It only bring $ to the owners of the club. It's sad but they doing a thing about the sport, it's only for money. If you really want to promote the sports, why not make everything cheaper, facilities can be cheater and charge less. Would you want to be in a facility with shower room, luxurious bathroom, and a tv and stuff for 20 drop in or just a good old gym that is really standard for 5 bucks?

    Also, it's sad but true. In my eyes, badminton would never ever be as popular as basketball, baseball and soccer in the US. Why? Because honestly, it is not fun to watch badminton, it's only fun when you play it. It might be fun to watch badminton if you're a badminton player, but its painfully boring if you don't play the sport. I don't have to play basketball, soccer or baseball but it does attract me if I just watch it. People pay money to the sports that entertain them. Heck, even the WWE makes more money than badminton.
     
  12. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    :rolleyes: sorry, i said that too.::rolleyes:
    btw, those poor asians are dumb u know. To play baseball or tennis on streets or park is VERY boring. Why? if u miss, u have the run a lonnnnnnnnnnng way to get your ball back or u smack someone's window LOL. Replacing broken windows are expensive, oops, back to economic LOL




    I was only making reference to economic in specific of replying to your post which were littered with talk about money and cost.
     
    #32 cooler, Jun 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  13. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    timed out for typo correction.

    btw, those poor asians aren't dumb u know. To play baseball or tennis on streets or park is VERY boring. Why? if u miss, u have the run a lonnnnnnnnnnng way to get your ball back or u might smack someone's window LOL. Replacing broken windows are expensive, oops, back to economic LOL

    i'm sure tennis rackets are cheap too. Most are made in china anyway lol
    i have 2 old tennis rackets, u want them?? IT'S FREE. One is dunlop woody, and other is HEAD all aluminum. Quality brand. They're your if u pay me the shipping cost. I do hope i can help u get started to become a tennis pro one day with my free tennis rackets:):)
     
    #33 cooler, Jun 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  14. eeyore12345

    eeyore12345 Regular Member

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    hmm.. no, a low grade cheap Tennis rackets cost a lot more than badminton racket. Also, to play tennis and baseball like you said, requires lots of space. You can play a semi badminton game anywhere. You can even practice driving and dropping in the garage.
     
  15. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    then why badminton isn't popular in north america of badminton racket is cheaper than tennis racket? Most of us have garages, and backyard, and bigger streets. A feather shuttle might last whole day for the poor asian kids but a tennis ball would last for years.
     
    #35 cooler, Jun 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  16. venkatesh

    venkatesh Regular Member

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    That is just sad. In the court that I play in, play-all-you-can costs only 80 php, which is roughly US$ 1.73. There are 7 courts to share there. But if you want the court for yourself, you can have it reserved and pay only US$ 3.9 per hour per court. If you want to join queueing, the fee ranges from US$ 3.03 to 3.09, already inclusive of 4 shuttle cocks for the minimum of 4 matches. You can play more matches if you want, but after the first 4, you have to provide your own shuttle.

    The above are the fees in the southern part of Manila. However, in the northern part, it's more expensive. Like last night, I played in Quezon City. The queueing fee was US$4.77. But this is still relatively cheap compared to other countries.

    So to all baddy enthusiasts out there, why don't you pay us a visit? We can play badminton all day long for only US$ 1.73. :)
     
    #36 venkatesh, Jun 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  17. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    OCBC is $20 drop in and you must use Yonex or OCBC birds. Be happy you live in the bay area.
     
  18. eeyore12345

    eeyore12345 Regular Member

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    hmm... didn't I tell you about the taste and preferences? Badminton isn't as popular over here because they are better substitutes out there. Dude, I thought you study Econ. The price of supply varies according to elasticity. You can apply for items too. An asian kid in asia could only eat between rice and potatoes, therefore they choose whatever is best for them. American kids in american can get rice, whatever fatty food they get. So they choose what is best for them. It's not popular in the US because we have the opportunity to go for other sports. Most asian are poor, that is why they cannot play organized sports. Heck, in some foreign countries badminton and tennis are considered rich sports. The one that gets to go to the gym pays about 4 dollars/month and they are considered "rich". The poor one just hit in front of the streets. Please do some research or ask yourself first before posting. It gets annoying. If you know Econ, you should be able to figure it out yourself.
     
  19. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    venkatesh must be earning good income in philippines:D:D because the average household income there is about 4500-5000 USD/year. (Venkatesh, you are welcome to correct my estimate of philippines average income if you have better statistic)

    In the US, average household income (2009) around 53,000 USD/year, this is a ratio of ~11x. Using your cheapest fee in philippines of 1.73 USD, this equates to 19 USD cost for an average amercian. Using your high fee of 4.77 USD, this equates to 52.5 USD cost for an average american.

    As i've illustrated above example, badminton fees in the US are very very affordable compared to philippines's cost of living and earning power, and we know philippines is buzzing with badminton interest. Please stop using high cost of entry as a barrier of badminton interest in the US
     
    #39 cooler, Jun 18, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2010
  20. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

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    dear MysticHLE,

    ever consider forming a club?

    to generate some fund you can organize tournament and i am sure a lot out there would love to play tournament. get to know the popular brands in your area and get some sponsor for the tournament.

    running a tournament you need to incur expenses such as court rental, shuttlecocks and prizes. you also need to pay for umpiring and lines person.

    if you have your club members to assist in umpiring and as lines person you save the cost to pay them for their services. in return what the club makes from running the tournament you can use that to rent the courts for them to play.

    as for the shuttlecocks you can put in your entry form 'they are not provided' and they need to buy from you at a special price - this you have to find and arrange with your sponsor to give you prizes for the tournament such as rackets, shoes, t-shirts, bags or accessories and you make their shuttlecocks the official one, of course with a subsidized price. the sponsor should be happy and you as the organizer will be relieved of the shuttlecock cost!

    so from the entry fees received you only have to pay for the court rental plus some miscellaneous...

    this is just one example and there are countless things you can do to promote badminton in your area ....

    i started managing a 39-courts here in kuching, sarawak, malaysia, don't think you even heard of this place lol....in a rather remote area some 4 years ago and a lot of people laughed at that time but now they are full!

    it was hard in the beginning but because i am a coach and i have my club to run tournaments, training players and promote it. now for 2 years i hardly have courts for tournaments!

    do a feasibility study on this, i think it will work!
     

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