Article: A Discussion on the Problematic Growth of Badminton in the San Francisco Bay

Discussion in 'vBCms Comments' started by MysticHLE, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. abunjofernandez

    abunjofernandez New Member

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    hi, im new here.. just want to ask how can i join tournaments..
     
  2. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

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    that was good!:cool:

    passion for badminton;)
     
  3. super64

    super64 Regular Member

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    thats a good problem here in manila courts are decreasing bcoz of high rent of court area and the lessee cant cope up anymore :-( so sad here.
     
  4. Kiloo

    Kiloo Regular Member

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    my question is actually: are any of those courts (stadiums) privately owned? and how do they cut back on their investments and running costs?

    Here at about $3/2hours/wk sounds very low when u equate with the investment required to build a facility.
     
  5. MysticHLE

    MysticHLE Regular Member

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    The major badminton-club courts here are privately owned indeed. The community centers have friendlier pricing at around $3-4/2-3 hours (which is how long people usually play for anyway). The thing with investments in this case is that, in the long run, it is possible to achieve zero-economic profit (e.g. maintain facility conditions, and earning enough for a living) without overcharging the customers in the short-term. And I honestly doubt that it requires $8+/drop in to keep a facility running and staying in business when they have people coming in everyday by the multiple tens and low hundreds (not to mention them selling things for Yonex and other companies, stringing services, coaching services, etc).

    The question then ultimately becomes: how fast do you want to earn back the money you've invested in building? And how much profits do you want to reap in?
     
  6. andre82

    andre82 Regular Member

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    Hello, Blurry.

    Hi Blurry,

    Do you play in the bay area? I am looking for a team to join in the bay area. I used to play 3 times a week when I was in Malaysia :)
     
  7. tcouture

    tcouture Regular Member

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    Although I applaud your efforts, since we all wondered why such a magnificent sport was not more popular at one time or another, I think that basing your analysis on drop-in prices is not the best way to look at the state of badminton.

    If I was a private owner, I would jack up drop-in prices to try to get a membership base going; it is just easier to run a business when factoring in recurring revenue. Also, because badminton is an emerging sport with a somewhat unstable player base (it is not "en vogue" in North America), I would want to offset these up/downs with a membership base. I am an older player just returning after a 15 yr hiatus, some nights I hurt, I am tired, etc. but, because I am a member at my club, I just know it will be fun when I get there, so I kick myself up grab my bag and always have a good time.

    Members create leagues, I play at my club because I know that every week, the same members of the same caliber will be there to play with me. Because I play with the same people often, I can also gauge my progress easily by climbing up the ladder. This, in turn, also attracts other player, and so on...

    In short, to have a strong business, you need to attract different segments of the population - leagues for recreational retirees during the day, competitive and coaching time during meal times (the most addicted make the most sacrifices), and the most expensive peak time slots at nigh for overpaid tired business executives. Essentially, drop-ins are a nightmare except when the sport is on a "high".

    Just my 0.02,

    T.
     
  8. mstanbrook

    mstanbrook Regular Member

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    I play at one of the better centres in the UK (because it's nearest not because I'm any good) and peak-time courts are now £9.20 per 45 minutes. Plus £54 / year membership.

    We have a three hour drop in on a Sunday that is £5 per person but going up to £6.

    So I think these $$ rates (and indeed your £8/hour) are very reasonable! However I'm happy to pay what I do to get Olympic standard floors, nets, walls, lights and ceilings! Nothing quite like hitting an air-shot in such conditions. :)
     
  9. rintin2x

    rintin2x New Member

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    Hi, I'm a new member here, was raised in Indonesia and been living in Idaho for about 10 years.
    I think you need to pay anywhere you play if it's indoor unless it's your own indoor place or you know the owner, but trying popularize this sport require a bit of sacrifice, for example:
    1. 15 minutes (or whatever) free lesson for newbies each time they come, this doesn't mean it's the court owner responsibility, all of you guys can do this too you know.
    2. I think smashing is fun, so I don't see why can't we teach them to smash so they have the feeling that badminton has that power element too.
    3. when you play with newbies, well...let them score you with their smash or trick you even you know how to return it. It gives them confidence and interest to come back next time. I said that doesn't mean we let them score too many because they might think the game is too easy and will bore them.
    4. I think price of racket or whatever is not the problem. As long as people starting to like/love the activity, they will spend the money. Even some of you guys said you have no money but you're still playing aren't you?
     
  10. 604PMei

    604PMei Regular Member

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    When it comes down to the nitty gritty,, If money is the issue,, ask not of them.. Just go out and earn more money to afford the lifestyle you want for yourself.
    Again there's going to be sacrifices,, now are you willing to do this for the goals that you want for yourself ?
     
  11. nis270r

    nis270r Regular Member

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    Bay Area Badminton vs NY Metro area (Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn)

    I agree that most of the people who play badminton are spending a good amount of money on equipment and facility usage, but if you like the sport, as some posting here mentioned, you just have to adjust and make sacrifices.

    Let's take a look at NY metro area costing and you Bay Area residents will instantly feel much better, I recently been to a BBC facility at Menlo Park since my brother live in the area and i was there to visit. I was SHOCKED how cheap they charge for drop-in and membership fees, if i'm not mistaken, that location charges $350 +$45 registration for ONE year of membership. It is night and day comparing to what we pay here in NY, does new yorker make that much more?? I don't think so, $75k household income is considered quite well off for most of us, unless you're a wall street banker/doctors, lawyers or some sort.

    Average drop-in price in Queens/Manhattan/Brooklyn is between $10-$15 depending if it is a school gym or dedicated badminton facility. They do offer membership package at these facilities, myself and a few friends are paying $120 for 10 sessions at a dedicated badminton facility in Flushing, some people opt to pay for $250 for 3 months unlimited entrance, this place is open from 12-12, 7 days a week. There's another place charges $150 for 12 sessions which they have a former Chinese National team mix double player on site for training/coaching.

    So if you do the math, I should be broke by now if i sat down and calculate every dollar that i spent on entrance fee, don't forget the shuttles, strings, drinks and gas money. So for your fortunate Bay Area residents, let it go. If you like the sports, it's worth it, if you can't afford it, no disrespect to any of you here, go jogging, biking, or hiking like what my brother does.

    Play On !!
     
  12. MysticHLE

    MysticHLE Regular Member

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    Indeed, so where in that business model does it allow for more casual-like players who aren't already involved enough in badminton already to the extent of wanting to go to a club?

    Are you saying that nice badminton facilities' prices are only meant for players who love the sport already - while casual newer players are expected to stay at wooden floor gyms and (possibly) never be exposed to higher levels of play as a result?

    I don't disagree with you here. But how many people out there are willing and able to make that adjustment in light of all other options they have? At one point or another, that casual player (who likes playing badminton) will question him/herself if the cost of continuing to play badminton is worth it compared to the cost of playing another (more popular, and perhaps cheaper) sport. And that's when this cost of entry barrier might limit the growth of this sport.
     
    #92 MysticHLE, Apr 13, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  13. Aedgy

    Aedgy Regular Member

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    Really? Putting majority of blame the private club owner/operators in SF/Bay area for lack of progress in developing Badminton as "popular" sport in US?

    I think not.

    I think those private clubs are doing fine - keeping themselves in business, providing additional facilities for public badminton which are generally so much better in quality, availability, and convenience compared to rented school gyms with limited hours.

    Personally, these clubs have significantly improved my badminton experience in all areas.

    Additionally, in their own way, I think those clubs are trying to "breakthrough" and develop young players into world champions to increase badminton popularity in US (of course notoriety of producing such champions at their facilities is also a motivating factor).

    Development of badminton or any other "non-major" sports in US starts with a grass roots programs and school programs from elementary level to college - in other words, exposure. Other supports are also needed but at the highest levels, to truly get over the hump into popularity/exposure level similar to tennis - all with fantastic professional competition laden with huge prize monies and media coverage to go with it... it's all about marketing.

    The organization that should bear the burden of planning and execution of such programs and marketing = USAB.

    I won't delve into historical insights and/or evaluations regarding the effectiveness of USAB as the governing body for Badminton in US. I do know for a fact that my HS alma mater has just recently scrapped their badminton program in an area where badminton in US is supposed to be centered in USA.

    As to how expensive these private clubs are - I agree, it can feel that way for college students, especially if you are an independent type, a "starving" student so to speak.

    However, once you graduate and get a job with steady income, I guarantee you that $30-40 per month membership will not seem so unreasonable. As many posters already have pointed out, cost of participating in sports other than Badminton in US tend to be more - often times much much more.

    From my perspective, you should be training & competing Badminton at your school with costs being absorbed as part of your tuition like many collegiate sports programs - IF Badminton had such grass roots & scholastic programs as it should have.

    As such, the fault of you having to deal with high fees for private clubs while being a college student lies not with the clubs themselves, but with others who are given the responsibility to lay the foundation and execute effective programs for you to participate at collegiate level for Badminton in US.
     
  14. ShiFuya

    ShiFuya New Member

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