Badminton, BWF, CHN, SSF tournament

[chris-ccc]

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Greetings,

Much have been said about CHN not interested in participating in the SSF tournament.

I see 2 main points here:
(1) The reason CHN gave for not participating in the SSF is because they said the SSF clashed with their team training session.
(2) The reason BWF gave for limiting the number of entries from each nation in the SSF is because they wanted as many countries as possible to participate in it.

I would like our BCers to answer 2 questions here:
(a) Should the SSF be moved to different time of the year so that CHN can participate in it?
(b) Should the SSF be limited to 1 player per event per country so that we can have 8 countries participating in each event?

In (a), I can see that CHN is following the seasonal year, while BWF is following the calendar year. But, Badminton is lucky because we play it indoor. So tournaments and/or training sessions could be rescheduled to different times of the year.

In (b), I would like to see that the SSF be organised for the No.1's from each country competing against each other. To enhance international rivalry, organising the No.1's from countries playing against each other is definitely better. And it should get many nationalistic fans more enthused. However, in terms of skill demonstration, watching the No.1 and No.2 from CHN might be better. They are currently the strongest nation in Badminton.

What are your thoughts/answers to questions (a) and (b)?


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[bananakid]

Limit to 1 player/country???

Are you encouraging badminton to be even more based on a country instead of an individual??? That's not promoting the sport whatsoever... you are encouraging players to be even more heavily depending on their national badminton organization... Trust me, history is telling you that this will only keep badminton at the current level with a pity prize awards at every single tournament.


This super series final idea is just so lame... might as well just watch the C.Masters in Denmark, since it is pretty much the same format with a few more players only.


Plus... why create another thread with the same idea as the China withdrew from SSF thread??? Are you suffering from "A.D.D"???

 

[phaarix]

Limit to 1 player/country???

Are you encouraging badminton to be even more based on a country instead of an individual??? That's not promoting the sport whatsoever... you are encouraging players to be even more heavily depending on their national badminton organization... Trust me, history is telling you that this will only keep badminton at the current level with a pity prize awards at every single tournament.


This super series final idea is just so lame... might as well just watch the C.Masters in Denmark, since it is pretty much the same format with a few more players only.


Plus... why create another thread with the same idea as the China withdrew from SSF thread??? Are you suffering from "A.D.D"???

I have to admit, I'm no where near as excited about the SS Finals as I "should be". Part of that is probably China's absence (They can't attend a 4 day tournament because of training??). But it just doesn't seem to have been organised well at all. Getting cancelled last year was just a disaster... and that alone did a lot to kill my enthusiasm. And Andrew Smith? I think even SS tournament qualifiers can beat him...

That said, I'm still looking forward to it... about as much as most other tournaments, but nothing like I would the WC, Thomas/Uber/Sudirman, AE or Olympics.

 

[chris-ccc]

No.1 player from each of the top 8 countries to play

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I thought my suggestion of having the No.1 player from each of the top 8 countries to play was a great idea.

Let us compare the two.

Mens Singles (No.1 from country):
1. Lee Chong Wei (MAS)
2. Lin Dan (CHN)
3. Sony Dwi Kuncoro (INA)
4. Peter Gade (DEN)
5. Lee Hyun ll (KOR)
6. Przemyslaw Wacha (POL)
7. Boonsak Ponsana (THA)
8. Chetan Anand (IDN)

Mens Singles (2008 SSF):
1. Lee Chong Wei (MAS)
2. Peter Gade (DEN)
3. Wong Choong Hann (MAS)
4. Chan Yan Kit (HKG)
5. Sony Dwi Kuncoro (INA)
6. Joachim Persson (DEN)
7. Taufik Hidayat (INA)
8. Andrew Smith (ENG)
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[chris-ccc]

No.1 player from each of the top 8 countries (after withdrawal of CHN)

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And after the withdrawal of CHN, the players will be:

Mens Singles (No.1 from country):
1. Lee Chong Wei (MAS)
2. Sony Dwi Kuncoro (INA)
3. Peter Gade (DEN)
4. Lee Hyun ll (KOR)
5. Przemyslaw Wacha (POL)
6. Boonsak Ponsana (THA)
7. Chetan Anand (IDN)
8. Nguyen Tien Minh (VIE)
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[Han]

To be fair, if the Super Series Final is for the best of the best in every event then there should be no quota per country. If quota have to be implemented then let it be 4 max per event so Team China will not feel being the victims. I really don't mind watch Chinese vs Chinese as long as the coaches don't decide the outcome for them which is unlikely for the Super Series as there is no ranking point.
We can argue the whole day but it will not change the outcome so lets this saga rest in peace and lets enjoy what we have on going ... Go SS Final!

 

[Krisna]

I think China has really taught BWF a lesson this time... "Wanna limit us to just 2 players/pairs per category eh? Then we don't go to the tournament at all!!!"

 

[kwun]

sorry for being devil's advocate. but we have to go back and wonder:

what is the point of the SSF anyway? we already have a yearly world championship. having another SSF seems a bit pointless.

furthermore, although it is announced beforehand, did BWF consult each of the potential country whether they can attend? it doesn't sound like they have.

China did come out to be a bit arrogant for not attending, but there is also no regulation saying that they have to attend. perhaps in the future, BWF should mandate the attendance of the SSF.

 

[kwun]

and if you look at the broader picture. the whole thing also shows how poor the relationship is between the BWF and the China Badminton Association. CBA didn't pay much attention to BWF and didn't give them any face. if they were to be in good terms, this would never have happened. if they were in good terms, CBA will take the sacrifice to move their winter training, and BWF would also consult CBA of the scheduling.

one of the factor is that CBA is arrogant. but at the current state of badminton, CBA unfortunately is in the position to be arrogant as much of the badminton world relies on the presence strong Chinese players. as phaarix has said, the Chinese would make the SSF much more exciting.

on the other side, BWF has continually trying to dilute the strength of the Chinese players, the strongest and most influential team of the whole professional badminton world. to be honest, that's just a case of BWF shooting themselves in the foot.

perhaps BWF need to hire someone who has more strategic and diplomatic sense. they need to tame the Chinese dragon, make them happy, rely in their strength instead of putting obstacle left and right of them.

 

[ctjcad]

Oh, boy.....(the fun of this never stops, or maybe we're just killing some time)....

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... I would like our BCers to answer 2 questions here:
(a) Should the SSF be moved to different time of the year so that CHN can participate in it?
(b) Should the SSF be limited to 1 player per event per country so that we can have 8 countries participating in each event?
....

...oh, heck, might as well...btw, i somewhat concur with bananakid's comment that this is similar to the other thread...

But to give my 2 sens opinion to the 2 questions above:
a. For one, I like the idea suggested by xXazn_romeoXx in the other thread. Instead of holding a SSF once a year (which BWF absolutely can't realistically accomplished), why not hold it every other year; or have it every 3 yr. That way, BWF will have (hopefully) enough time to plan this right.
And since we know that CHN's squad will most likely hold their winter training from around mid December, why don't BWF schedule the next SS Finale, say 2 weeks before (at end of November/early December). It goes back to the communication and agreement with all the associations & BWF.
Also, in regards to location, perhaps next time, BWF could hold this SS Finale in China and see if CHN's team will support and participate.

b. This, IMO, the BWF needs to re-think again. As kwun also mentioned, what is their goal in this SS Finale? Are they trying to showcase the best in the world or trying to have "equal no. of participants from different countries"? If it's the former, then there will be no quota/limit of players; simply based on the rankings. If it's the latter, then we will come back to the current situation.

Anyway, i think we might've blown this current SS Finale situation a bit out of proportion. As is, this is only an invitational type event as there is no requirement (let alone no ranking points awarded) for the invited/qualified players to participate. I think some of us just want to see the top players compete, one last time, in this so called "The Grand Finale of the Year tourney", as hyped as it is esp. with the unprecedented prize money amount.
For now, i guess, let's just enjoy the players who've shown up for this yr end event. After all, i also have a feeling, some or most of them would also like to take a break/pause/rest during this holiday season.

......And if BWF wants to do this again, then they better prepare it much better the next time!

 

[chris-ccc]

We are here to talk about the development for Badminton tournaments

I think China has really taught BWF a lesson this time... "Wanna limit us to just 2 players/pairs per category eh? Then we don't go to the tournament at all!!!"

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Krisna ... What you have quoted could be exactly what is happening now.

But should we allow our strongest playing nation to dictate how Badminton tournaments should be formatted?

This is how I see CHN thinks. It is "If our team cannot win 'handsomely' by a big margin, then we won't be participating". I have no intention of being disrespectful to CHN, but please tell me if what I see is not true.

CHN always prepares their participation in tournaments as a team. That's the way CHN does things. And we cannot say that that is the wrong way to do things. In fact, I strongly believe that 'Unity brings Strength'.

But should a nation apply this 'unity with strength' philosophy just for its own interest, and disregard our wish to make Badminton a more popular sport worldwide by changing the format so that more nations can be included? I should hope not.

We are here to talk about the development for Badminton tournaments. It is about how tournaments can be organised/formatted for all nations. We are not here to talk about how a nation can dominate our Badminton.

I come from a school quite strong in sporting achievements and academic learnings. My school would often get invitations to participate in many competitions, namely; sports, quizzes, science and mathematics competitions, etc... My school also organised some of these competitions. When we organised our competitions, we would make sure that all schools in our region could be represented. Can you see what I am talking about?


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[Cheung]

Kwun makes good sense.

Since the world championships is the sports showcase event, why not shift this to the end of the year instead?

 

[chris-ccc]

BWF hopes that our top Badminton players can pursue our sport more professionallly

sorry for being devil's advocate. but we have to go back and wonder:

what is the point of the SSF anyway? we already have a yearly world championship. having another SSF seems a bit pointless.

furthermore, although it is announced beforehand, did BWF consult each of the potential country whether they can attend? it doesn't sound like they have.

China did come out to be a bit arrogant for not attending, but there is also no regulation saying that they have to attend. perhaps in the future, BWF should mandate the attendance of the SSF.

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kwun ... I thought it was the intention of BWF to get our top players to not need their National Associations for financial assistance to enter this SSF. By offering bigger prize money and all expenses paid, BWF is hoping that our top Badminton players can pursue our sport more professionally, just like what professional Tennis players do.

I would guess that BWF did not consult each of the potential countries. I would think that BWF was hoping to attract top players to participate just because all expenses are paid for the players.

This is only my own perception.


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[bananakid]

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kwun ... I thought it was the intention of BWF to get our top players to not need their National Associations for financial assistance to enter this SSF. By offering bigger prize money and all expenses paid, BWF is hoping that our top Badminton players can pursue our sport more professionally, just like what professional Tennis players do.

I would guess that BWF did not consult each of the potential countries. I would think that BWF was hoping to attract top players to participate just because all expenses are paid for the players.

This is only my own perception.


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Stop coming up with these LAME excuses for the BWF... If they are really thinking about bring the REAL TOP players together for a tournament and encourage individualism over nation participation, then why the quota thing again according to nation???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Stop these excuses before you contradict yourself any further.

 

[bananakid]

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Krisna ... What you have quoted could be exactly what is happening now.

But should we allow our strongest playing nation to dictate how Badminton tournaments should be formatted?

This is how I see CHN thinks. It is "If our team cannot win 'handsomely' by a big margin, then we won't be participating". I have no intention of being disrespectful to CHN, but please tell me if what I see is not true.

CHN always prepares their participation in tournaments as a team. That's the way CHN does things. And we cannot say that that is the wrong way to do things. In fact, I strongly believe that 'Unity brings Strength'.

But should a nation apply this 'unity with strength' philosophy just for its own interest, and disregard our wish to make Badminton a more popular sport worldwide by changing the format so that more nations can be included? I should hope not.

We are here to talk about the development for Badminton tournaments. It is about how tournaments can be organised/formatted for all nations. We are not here to talk about how a nation can dominate our Badminton.

I come from a school quite strong in sporting achievements and academic learnings. My school would often get invitations to participate in many competitions, namely; sports, quizzes, science and mathematics competitions, etc... My school also organised some of these competitions. When we organised our competitions, we would make sure that all schools in our region could be represented. Can you see what I am talking about?


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Seriously, another tournament like SSF ain't going to make other countries(whose population don't give a crap about badminton) want to broadcast the tournament... you can hold any # of badminton tournaments with any speical format in Asia, and none of the African, North/South American, most European countries will give a crap about badminton at all.

People in those countries may be willing to pay $2,000 Euro just to watch a good football game, or a few hundreds in Canada to watch a hockey game... but you can give out free tickets to a badminton event to everyone in say Brazil, Italy, and etc... you still end up with an empty stadium.

Bottom line is those people from those continents just view badminton as a JOKE, and before that is changed, NO Countries will broadcast an event over TV and intent to lose $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ over it. According to Onetoughbirdie's philiosophy, all us oversea fans will just download the matches, watch it on our computer monitor, and scratch our own butt and balls.:crying::crying::crying:

 

[Oldhand]

There are several ways to get your point across.
SHOUTING is one of them - but it blurs the message.

Let's aim to keep this civil and even

 

[chris-ccc]

Super Series organised by the BWF is to reward players, not nations

and if you look at the broader picture. the whole thing also shows how poor the relationship is between the BWF and the China Badminton Association. CBA didn't pay much attention to BWF and didn't give them any face. if they were to be in good terms, this would never have happened. if they were in good terms, CBA will take the sacrifice to move their winter training, and BWF would also consult CBA of the scheduling.

one of the factor is that CBA is arrogant. but at the current state of badminton, CBA unfortunately is in the position to be arrogant as much of the badminton world relies on the presence strong Chinese players. as phaarix has said, the Chinese would make the SSF much more exciting.

on the other side, BWF has continually trying to dilute the strength of the Chinese players, the strongest and most influential team of the whole professional badminton world. to be honest, that's just a case of BWF shooting themselves in the foot.

perhaps BWF need to hire someone who has more strategic and diplomatic sense. they need to tame the Chinese dragon, make them happy, rely in their strength instead of putting obstacle left and right of them.

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kwun ... Yes, we can clearly see that there is something wrong in the relationship between CBA and BWF. And it is quite frustrating for us Badminton fans to find these 2 bodies not getting along well. Both CBA and BWF are displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance of their own.

Clearly, CBA is interested in maintaining their top positions in the world, in events like the Thomas Cup, the Uber Cup, the Sudirman Cup, the Olympic Games, etc... Probably, CBA concentrates on these events because titles are awarded to nations.

To me, the new Super Series organised by the BWF is to reward players, not nations. Perhaps because of this, CBA is not interested.
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[chris-ccc]

The SSF is organised to reward players, not nations

... Instead of holding a SSF once a year (which BWF absolutely can't realistically accomplished), why not hold it every other year; or have it every 3 yr. That way, BWF will have (hopefully) enough time to plan this right. ...

... As kwun also mentioned, what is their goal in this SS Finale? ....

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ctjcad ... As you can see in my reply to kwun, I think the SSF is organised to reward players, not nations.

It is unfortunate that some players cannot attend because their National Associations say that team achievement is more important than personal achievement, and therefore not permitting their players to participate in the SSF.
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[chris-ccc]

When is it the best time to hold Badminton showcase events?

Since the world championships is the sports showcase event, why not shift this to the end of the year instead?

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Cheung ... Which one are you referring to? The World Championships or the Super Series Finals?

Yes, a good question: When is it the best time(month of the year) to hold Badminton showcase events?


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[chris-ccc]

Currently Badminton is big in 5 countries

Seriously, another tournament like SSF ain't going to make other countries(whose population don't give a crap about badminton) want to broadcast the tournament... you can hold any # of badminton tournaments with any speical format in Asia, and none of the African, North/South American, most European countries will give a crap about badminton at all.

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bananakid ... Sorry that I have to disagree with you.

From post#5 of this thread:

And after the withdrawal of CHN, the players will be:
Mens Singles (No.1 from country):
1. Lee Chong Wei (MAS)
2. Sony Dwi Kuncoro (INA)
3. Peter Gade (DEN)
4. Lee Hyun ll (KOR)
5. Przemyslaw Wacha (POL)
6. Boonsak Ponsana (THA)
7. Chetan Anand (IDN)
8. Nguyen Tien Minh (VIE)

We all know that currently Badminton is big in 5 countries; namely, China, Denmark, Indonesia, Malaysia and Korea. But if Poland, Thailand, India and Vietnam can get a chance to participate in the SSF, I am sure that their country news media would give a mention about this SSF for Badminton.
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