CCC Trial League Competition - Fri 23 March

[yschin]

A level playing field

Team 3 finish 3rd? no pressure for me then.

Is that Siva in the pic with S1? Without hesitation I go for your team .. T3 champion. Handicaps has levelled the playing field.

A suggestion for future league if it is going to make it more interesting :-

1. Regular partners who are low handicappers (-4 to -8) should not be in the hat but should form a team with the remaining member (high h'capper) to be picked from a hat. That way he can both partner a low as well as high h'cap and a chance to play against 3-4 strong pairs. The high h'cap ( +2 to +8) will play more with low than high h'cap which is good.

2. 4 to 5 teams play in the league. At the end of the day the last team will be dropped and replaced by another team the following week. The high h'cap in each team will be reshuffled.

3. After a few weeks, the reverse can be arranged i.e regular high h'cappers partners will form teams with the remaining spot filled by low h'capper from the hat etc etc. Meanwhile the low h'cappers play socially among themselves waiting to be 'promoted'.

4. The handicap system will be temporary made redundant for the league for we should know by now who is high and who is low i.e no bonus points to start.

5. Absentees is not a big problem as they can easily be filled by those not in the league.

Hopefully, everyone will play hard to stay in the league and our Capt will be under pressure all the time.

I hope it is not too theoretical.

S1 - i only have a copy of the magazine. Older issues not on sale and I have no idea who the distributor is.

 

[DoublesPlease]

1. Regular partners who are low handicappers (-4 to -8) should not be in the hat but should form a team with the remaining member (high h'capper) to be picked from a hat. That way he can both partner a low as well as high h'cap and a chance to play against 3-4 strong pairs. The high h'cap ( +2 to +8) will play more with low than high h'cap which is good.

I agree to anything that will even out the teams, it has just so happened that the teams have kinda worked out that way in this trial by chance. So assuming that the organiser won't stack his own team with super MP#2 we should have team handicaps between -10 and -2.

2. 4 to 5 teams play in the league. At the end of the day the last team will be dropped and replaced by another team the following week. The high h'cap in each team will be reshuffled..

If only we had that many players to go around. Two 'leagues' that interchanged teams similar to the pommy footy.

3. After a few weeks, the reverse can be arranged i.e regular high h'cappers partners will form teams with the remaining spot filled by low h'capper from the hat etc etc. Meanwhile the low h'cappers play socially among themselves waiting to be 'promoted'..

I'll need a diagram for this one Yschin...

4. The handicap system will be temporary made redundant for the league for we should know by now who is high and who is low i.e no bonus points to start.

If there was a small difference in standard between the players no problem, with a large difference it will be next to impossible to balance teams. Remember that the handicap will contribute at most 50% of the overall team score and we're halfway to no bonuses already.

DP

 

[DoublesPlease]

carry 1 mutter mutter

Team 1
4) Helmut (+4)
5) Andrewghw (-8)
11) Ashraf (-4)
Team Handicaps = (-8)

Team 2
1) DoublesPlease (-8)
10) *** Mystery Player #2 *** (Mystery handicap)
6) Smashed_1 (-6)
Team Handicaps = (-14)

Team 3
7) Siva (-6)
9) Ketut-S (-4)
3) hkhung (0)
Team Handicaps = (-10)

Team 4
8) Fuji (-4)
12) Jwksam (+8)
2) Kulwinder (-6)
Team Handicaps = (-2)

DP

 

[yschin]

DP,

You got me wrong, Not running two leagues at the same time or trying to balance the strength of the teams and be a champion of fairness. But rather trying to achieve the objectives of:-

Getting stronger players to play more among themselves with some ‘mixed double’ games in it and weaker players play more among themselves with some stronger players in it to boost the games. Two league at different times.

This is based on the fact that stronger players tend to like playing with players of their strength. On the other hand, weaker players wouldn’t mind playing with stronger players because a stronger player can adapt to them.

It is a fact that in most other clubs , stronger players tend to play among themselves and the weaker or begineers confine to a court all by themselves.

Trying to accommodate everyone is always not easy.

I am sure Chris would like to give this a try to add some varieties to the current system. The current system works well but still stronger pair will only occasionally pick a weaker pair and I think to play ‘mixed’ against ‘mixed’ can be more challenging than against a pair that is so much different in standards than your pairing. Even handicaps doesn't make any different but cut short the playing time.

(‘mixed’ – weak + strong)

 

[hkhung]

The current system works well but still stronger pair will only occasionally pick a weaker pair

As this discussion is quite interesting, it's time for me to type up an essay again.

From my understanding (please correct me if i am wrong), our CCC club aims to be a "social" club, hence we are not trying to prepare ourselves for comp. Otherwise, we would have strong players play among ourselves all nite.

Throughout the last couple of weeks, once the handicap board comes back, I have seen there has been a tendency towards strong picking strong. Also weak picking weak thinking they have nothing to learn while playing strong cos the skill level is too wide.

In fact, i personally think strong vs weak with the amount of headstart, it's more pressure on strong players. In the new scoring system, every shot is counted, so huge pressure on service.

This is based on the fact that stronger players tend to like playing with players of their strength. On the other hand, weaker players wouldn’t mind playing with stronger players because a stronger player can adapt to them.

Basing on the weaker player would be picked on, I don't know how that would work. In the following scenarios

- one weak player among 4 person (something that has happened to me before quite often).
- two weak player among 4 person
In both scenario, we cannot avoid either strong players keep heaping to each other OR weak players completely being left out of the game.

I cannot see how this would be beneficial to strong player.

It's true that strong player can adapt to weak, but what's weak player gonna do?

Let's get people to talk about this!

 

[BadFever]

Hey DP, may I suggest Chiranthi to be your Mystery Player. That should bring your team standard more evenly with the rests. Also, since this is a Trial only, maybe it's a good idea to include a lady player. Just a suggestion.

 

[yschin]

As this discussion is quite interesting, it's time for me to type up an essay again.

From my understanding (please correct me if i am wrong), our CCC club aims to be a "social" club, hence we are not trying to prepare ourselves for comp.

Hi Capt, good points you raised.

I am fully aware that Chris has constantly reminded us about this being a "social" club. Then again, how many of you treat this primarily as social and badminton as secondary ? I would think a majority think otherwise i.e the other way.

Organising comp such as league, interclubs etc is one way of encouraging players to socialise more i.e something in common to talk and discuss about over supper, forum etc. What other better way ??

One cannot avoid occassionally being targeted at whether playing badminton or talking rubbish. I know Badfever like to smash at me - he can't wait.

Cheers

 

[yschin]

Considering that not everyone is sitting in front of the computer most of the time like myself or attend supper.

I nominate Badfever to be the one who will post large notices alongside the handicap board informing of "UPCOMING EVENTS".

 

[BadFever]

I nominate Badfever to be the one who will post large notices alongside the handicap board informing of "UPCOMING EVENTS".

Upcoming events? Like what?

As for hkhung post, I have only got one thing to say. When Chris/DP or anyone spend their time and effort to organise a so called COMPETITION, it is then a COMPETITION and not a social game. You play like how you normally play in "pay to entry" COMPETITION, such as Altona Open, Melbourne Open, etc. You play to WIN. You do not just play for fun or just expect a lousy outcome. Giving yourself a reason not to win before a COMPETITION is purely LAME. I pity your partner/s if you are playing in a team event.

ooooi, yschin, when are you coming back, huh? Make sure you bring along your AT900. Then I can get you to organise a yschin's Super League and the prize is your AT900.

 

[chris-ccc]

CCC = Chris' Community Club !!!

I am fully aware that Chris has constantly reminded us about this being a "social" club. Then again, how many of you treat this primarily as social and badminton as secondary ? I would think a majority think otherwise i.e the other way.

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]Hi yschin, [/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]Oops...... This is not what I meant, as you have quoted. [/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]My vision of a 'SOCIAL' Badminton Club is as opposed to a 'SEGREGATION' Badminton Club. [/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]Perhaps, a better word/description to describe our CCC is a 'COMMUNITY' Badminton Club. [/FONT]

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]I insist that anyone playing @CCC should mix around and play with every other players, regardless of their skill levels.

[/FONT]​

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]Cheers... chris@ccc[/FONT]​

 

[yschin]

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]Hi yschin, [/FONT]​

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]I insist that anyone playing @CCC should mix around and play with every other players, regardless of their skill levels. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]

[/FONT]

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]Cheers... chris@ccc[/FONT]​

Unfortunately, the league doesn't attract many high +ve players, segregation happens naturally unless we mixed them up.

 

[yschin]

Upcoming events? Like what?

ooooi, yschin, when are you coming back, huh? Make sure you bring along your AT900. Then I can get you to organise a yschin's Super League and the prize is your AT900.

Like my superleague.

I thought your turn to be picked but you really know how to shut me up.. ok I 'll shut up for now.

 

[chris-ccc]

CCC will respect our weaker players' wishes

Unfortunately, the league doesn't attract many high +ve players, segregation happens naturally unless we mixed them up.

Hi yschin,

We should respect our weaker players' wishes...... if they do not wish to participate in the League.

Cheers... chris@ccc

 

[chris-ccc]

Let us call it 'The CCC League Games'

As for hkhung post, I have only got one thing to say. When Chris/DP or anyone spend their time and effort to organise a so called COMPETITION, it is then a COMPETITION and not a social game. You play like how you normally play in "pay to entry" COMPETITION, such as Altona Open, Melbourne Open, etc. You play to WIN. You do not just play for fun or just expect a lousy outcome. Giving yourself a reason not to win before a COMPETITION is purely LAME. I pity your partner/s if you are playing in a team event.

Hi DoublesPlease,

If you have been following the posts in this thread, I think you have noticed that we should not have used the word 'COMPETITION' for our CCC League.

In future... let us call it 'The CCC League Games'.

In fact, I have been using the word 'GAMES' for our CCC Handicapped lately, because hkhung and some others are too hyped-up when they hear the word 'COMPETITION'.

We want participation, like for the Olympic Games. Many participants from many countries take part in the Olympics, knowing they have no chance of winning. However, it is the participation and the trying of their PB (Personal Best) that is important.

It is the PARTICIPATION of players@CCC we want for our League, regardless of their skill levels.

Yes, I am encouraging all players@CCC to speak out on this matter.

Cheers... chris@ccc

 

[hkhung]

If you have been following the posts in this thread, I think you have noticed that we should not have used the word 'COMPETITION' for our CCC League.

Right on right on, as words can be misleading, this is even more so for people who only follow CCC through discussion board.

As i can see now, the friday trial league is like a friendly, so no chance for me to do any "unfriendly" things like growling and yelling.

We want participation, like for the Olympic Games. Many participants from many countries take part in the Olympics, knowing they have no chance of winning. However, it is the participation and the trying of their PB (Personal Best) that is important.

This comment is spot on.

 

[chris-ccc]

hkhung waking up while chris@ccc is going to bed

Hi hkhung,

It appears that you just woke up from bed for today... and I am now going to bed for yesterday.

See you tonight, Friday 23-Mar-2007, at CCC Community Badminton.

Cheers... chris@ccc

 

[yschin]

Hi yschin,

We should respect our weaker players' wishes...... if they do not wish to participate in the League.

Cheers... chris@ccc

Chris,

Don’t be mistaken , your wishes for the club as well as other members wishes will always be respected. Wrong choice of words for me …it should read as - to avoid segregation they should be encouraged to participate rather than ‘mixed them up’.

I considered myself to be the strong one among the weak rather than the weak among the strong, so I am the self appointed spokeperson for the weaker players only kidding.

I was actually suggesting a league for the weaker players with some stronger players among them sometime after this but the irregular attendances makes any organiser a big headache. Anyway just to gauge responses nothing serious about it .

For those too hyped up about competition , there are competitions every other week around Melb.

 

[chris-ccc]

yschin's handicaps is at -4, last played on Friday 8-Dec-2006

I considered myself to be the strong one among the weak rather than the weak among the strong, so I am the self appointed spokeperson for the weaker players only kidding.

Hi yschin,

You are very modest...based on our CCC records, your handicaps is at -4, last played on Friday 8-Dec-2006.

It's 6:20am Melbourne Time now... I've got to get some sleep.

Good Night... chris@ccc

 

[hkhung]

I considered myself to be the strong one among the weak rather than the weak among the strong, so I am the self appointed spokeperson for the weaker players only kidding.

I am so glad you said "only kidding", cos there are gonna be people out there who take whatever said here seriously.

I was actually suggesting a league for the weaker players with some stronger players among them sometime after this but the irregular attendances makes any organiser a big headache. Anyway just to gauge responses nothing serious about it .

Unless you get make sure weaker players are not left our completely out of this game, i don't know how this would be beneficial to weak/strong player.

For those too hyped up about competition , there are competitions every other week around Melb.

To be honest, i don't think many of CCC are interested in comp (season or 1 day).

On a side note, i am looking forward to my D grade when comps resume in next month or two.

And Chris, have fun with your sleep. You are the only "mature" (i was gonna type old) person that i know to stay out all nite.

 

[BadFever]

We want participation, like for the Olympic Games. Many participants from many countries take part in the Olympics, knowing they have no chance of winning. However, it is the participation and the trying of their PB (Personal Best) that is important.
Cheers... chris@ccc

Sorry to say that I disagree on the above, Chris. I believe a lot of people out there are happy to spend $10000 or more just to participate in Olympic Games once in their lifetime but they can't. You have to compete in major tournaments/competitions to gain points to participate in Olympic. Even if you have enough money to join all Open Competitions around the world, that's still not good enough. You have to win enough matches to gain points for Olympics. So, in my definitions, Olympic is 100% Competition based, you have to compete and win to become one of the best to be able to participate. I am sure you are not making CCC into such priviledge club right?

Anyway, thanks Chris for providing a clearer definition of what CCC club is. For now, I think I am just interested to participate in CCC's badminton social night, nothing else. I am very happy with DP's excellent social sticky board system, everyone get to choose or be chosen. I almost forgot, social badminton night plus social badminton supper, that's all.

Hope everyone enjoy their games tonight.

See you guys next week.