Cheers Youth International 2004

[Loh]

Today is Finals day for all events, starting at 3 pm at the SBA Hall. The Championships started on 14 December and it has been an exhausting but exciting time for both players, officials and spectators.

14 events will be contested and they are Under 13 Singles for Boys & Girls (No Doubles for this category), U15, U17 & U19 Singles & Doubles for both genders.

Participants came from 5 countries, apart from host Singapore. A sole representive, Lehikoinen Kasper, U13 Boys' Singles is from Finland and he did well to enter the Semi-Finals yesterday but lost out to Febriyan of Indonesia in straight games. Singapore has the most number of participants followed by Indonesia, Malaysia, Chinese Taipeh and Thailand.

The breakdown in the number of players in all th events are as follows, the number in brackets ( ), represents girl participation while that without represents the boys:

U13S - 86 (32), U15S - 93 (51), U15D - 44 (27), U17S - 92 (37), U17D - 35 (23), U19S - 28 (12), and U19D - 14 (9). As can be gleaned from these statistics, the most popular event is the U15 singles with 93 (51) participants by both boys and girls, followed closely by the U17 event. The U19 girls are dominated by Chinese Taipeh.

In terms of performance, the following lineup of players appearing in today's Finals tells the story:

Singapore 9, Chinese Taipeh 6, Indonesia and Malaysia 5 each and Thailand 3.

However, there are finalists from the same country in seven events as follows:

U15 GS (Girls' Singles) Singapore; U17 BS (Boys' Singles) Malaysia; U17 GS, Singapore (Xing Aiying (US Open WS Champ) versus her doubles partner, Sari Shinta Mulya, (they also feature in the U17 GD (Girls' Doubles); U19 BS, Singapore (Chew Swee Hau v Djohan Erwin (a recent import from Indonesia), U19 GS and GD, Chinese Taipeh; and U13 BS Indonesia.

I look forward to this afternoon's finals and now leave you with some pics which I took at yesterday's Semi-Finals.

 

[jug8man]

hi. great write up but why is this in the general forum ?

plus.... is it normal for hosting under 19 (ie age 19 and below) age group? im not aware that this is a normal practice... why not just under 18. if this is not a common practice, then it would give me an impression that singapore is molly coddling their over-age talent by trying to give them yet another protected age group to shine in. which i feel serves no purpose but publicity.

sorry if i have in anyway stepped out of line. i hope my frankness on this matter has not offended anyone.


cheers.

jug

 

[hcyong]

The Finnish boy sure looks serious.

 

[kwun]

Cheers is such an active sponsor of badminton. last time i was in SG, i visited the Cheers convenient stores a few times, i was happy buying my drinks there as i knew some of my money will eventually go into sponsoring badminton.

 

[seven]

No website available for complete results??

 

[seven]

Results Website

Here is the results website : http://www.singaporebadminton.org.sg/horizon/110897649404ibsi08main.htm

 

[Loh]

I just returned home from the SBA Hall after having sat there for about six hours. Luckily, two events were played simultaneously using two courts out of six in the hall, otherwise the time taken would have been much longer. Half of the hall was partitioned with thick black curtain against which were located the prize table and victory stands for the champion and runner-up. The prize giving was done at periodical intervals.

It is heartening to see so many youths in the region coming together to compete in friendly rivalry. It must be school vacation time for most of them. As to the age categories and events, this was decided by the organizers with full agreement from the sponsors, I'm sure, as prize money is involved.

There is no under-18 category probably because the age gap between each category is two years and therefore U-19 seems to be logical after U-17. It also gives these older youths a chance to get together in congenial surroundings and test their skills. Such youths may not have a chance before this or they may not be eligible for the World Junior Championships held recently. Contrary to what some might think that this U-19 category is to Singapore's advantage, it was Chinese Taipeh which captured three out of four available titles.

As the SBA is charged with developing the game in Singapore, I think it is commendable that they organized this special tournament for so many youth categories during this school holiday season to keep interest alive - players', officials' and spectators' alike.

The final results of the teams' standings on the number of events won are:

1. Singapore (6) U15 GS, U17 GS, U19 BS, U13 GS, U15 GD, U17 GD.
2. Chinese Taipeh (3) U119 GS, U19 GD, U19 BD.
3. Indonesia (2) U13 BS, U17 BD.
3. Malaysia (2) U15 BS, U17 BS.
5. Thailand (1) U15 BD.

Five events went the full distance of three games:

1. U15 BS: Teo Kok Siang (MAS) bt Widianto Ricky (INA) 8-15, 15-7, 15-5.
2. U17 GS: Xing Aiying (SIN) bt Sari Shinta Mulya (SIN) 9-11, 11-1, 11-8.
3. U19 GS: Liu Siao Jo (TPE) bt Chang Kuei Chin (TPE) 13-10, 3-11, 11-1.
4. U13 BS: Kusuma Seto Danu (INA) by Febriyan (INA) 15-3, 13-15, 15-5.
5. U15 BD: Lertpanyaroj Pawin & Saensomboonsuk Tanongsak (THA) bt
Mak Hee Chun & Teo Kok Siang (MAS) 15-8, 8-15, 15-4.

Will try to post some pics tomorrow morning.

Yes, I think this post should fall under 'Tournaments'. Sorry for the oversight.

 

[jug8man]

There is no under-18 category probably because the age gap between each category is two years and therefore U-19 seems to be logical after U-17. It also gives these older youths a chance to get together in congenial surroundings and test their skills. Such youths may not have a chance before this or they may not be eligible for the World Junior Championships held recently. Contrary to what some might think that this U-19 category is to Singapore's advantage, it was Chinese Taipeh which captured three out of four available titles.

As the SBA is charged with developing the game in Singapore, I think it is commendable that they organized this special tournament for so many youth categories during this school holiday season to keep interest alive - players', officials' and spectators' alike.

i see. makes more sense but still feels a little wierd.

let me explain. this is because age-groups in malaysia are normally classified in 2 possible orders:
i) under 12, under 14, under 16, and under 18. or
ii) under 12, under 15, and under 18.
this is normally done (imho) because after age 18 an individual will no longer be classified as a minor (as in law and etc.) and were under normal circumstances matured physically and mentally. so there wasnt a point of having an 'age-group' category after age 18.


but since this 'under 13, 15, 17, & 19' format is a norm (in singapore) i suppose my assumptions are sadly unfounded.


my sincere apologies for any offence and thank you for the excelent coverage.


jug

 

[tcstay]

thanks Loh, for your dedicated effort!

actually, i wanted to make the trip down to watch but there's plenty of tasks for me to do at home.... haiz.

btw, can tell me who are the taiwanese and thais in those photos? i only recognise the malaysians, the finnish and the singaporeans...

and haha! there's this thread which is looking for green racquets and there we are, spotting one that one of the malayisa teen is using...

think xing aiying will make it big in the near future....

 

[johnps]

is it normal for hosting under 19 (ie age 19 and below) age group? im not aware that this is a normal practice... why not just under 18. if this is not a common practice, then it would give me an impression that singapore is molly coddling their over-age talent by trying to give them yet another protected age group to shine in. which i feel serves no purpose but publicity.


cheers.

jug

Nowadays, it is quite common that under 19 is the age limit for youth and junior tournaments. Notable examples are the World Junior, Asian Junior and the recently concluded Commonwealth Youth Games whereby Malaysia won the gold for badminton and Singapore came in 4th.



IMO, your unsubstantiated sweeping remarks about "molly coddling", "age group protection" and "publicity" is a tad off tangent.

 

[anylo]

i see. makes more sense but still feels a little wierd.

let me explain. this is because age-groups in malaysia are normally classified in 2 possible orders:
i) under 12, under 14, under 16, and under 18. or
ii) under 12, under 15, and under 18.
this is normally done (imho) because after age 18 an individual will no longer be classified as a minor (as in law and etc.) and were under normal circumstances matured physically and mentally. so there wasnt a point of having an 'age-group' category after age 18.


but since this 'under 13, 15, 17, & 19' format is a norm (in singapore) i suppose my assumptions are sadly unfounded.


my sincere apologies for any offence and thank you for the excelent coverage.


jug

Hi,

playing under those categories in junior classes isn't just a norm in singapore but commonly used also in europe. World junior championships are also U-19.

 

[jug8man]

Nowadays, it is quite common that under 19 is the age limit for youth and junior tournaments. Notable examples are the World Junior, Asian Junior and the recently concluded Commonwealth Youth Games whereby Malaysia won the gold for badminton and Singapore came in 4th.



IMO, your unsubstantiated sweeping remarks about "molly coddling", "age group protection" and "publicity" is a tad off tangent.

ok. perhaps there is a terminology confusion here.

1)in malaysia, under-18 is defined as= age 18 and below @ below age 19 in calender year.

2)the problem now is i do not know the definition of singapore's (cheers youth tournament) under-19. actually im afraid this confusion could be a worlwide phenomenon.
is it...
i) age 19 years and below, or
ii) age 19 and below.

3) according to definition #1 the world junior championships is regarded as under-18. article #8.1 eligibility to compete in the said tournaments regulation states "Players are eligible provided they remain under 19 years of age throughout the calendar year in which the World Junior Championships are held."
for reference pls check out this link: http://www.intbadfed.org/Portal/documents/wldjunio.pdf

so unless u mean that the world champs is an age 18 and below tournament (ie definition #1) then your point on the world champs being an under 19 tournament is sadly mistaken.

further proof being no player born before 1986 (1986= 18 years old) played in the tournament. yes... i did check.

4) i prefer to confirm the standard of terminology before i continue on the 'age group' discussion.

5) i have already retracted my previous statement. thank you for reading

6) sorry for being such a smart-ass. God knows i can be quite good at it.

that's all for now.


jug

p.s. i hope BF comes up with a standard terminology for the age groups that we can use in future discusions.

 

[jug8man]

2)the problem now is i do not know the definition of singapore's (cheers youth tournament) under-19. actually im afraid this confusion could be a worlwide phenomenon.
is it...
i) age 19 years and below, or
ii) age 19 and below.

correction!
i) age 18 years and below, or
ii) age 19 and below.


jug

 

[hcyong]

There is no confusion. Under-19 has to mean below the age of 19. That means age 18 and below. Under-19 is not inclusive of 19.

However, the age-eligibility rule for the world junior champs does exclude some players who are still 18+ at the time of the tournament. (If you hold the tournament at the beginning of the year, then a lot of players who are still 18+ is not eligible). Also, I think that the World Juniors should be held every year instead of 2 years. There are big differences in level of improvement between the ages 17, 18 and 19.

ok. perhaps there is a terminology confusion here.

1)in malaysia, under-18 is defined as= age 18 and below @ below age 19 in calender year.

2)the problem now is i do not know the definition of singapore's (cheers youth tournament) under-19. actually im afraid this confusion could be a worlwide phenomenon.
is it...
i) age 19 years and below, or
ii) age 19 and below.

3) according to definition #1 the world junior championships is regarded as under-18. article #8.1 eligibility to compete in the said tournaments regulation states "Players are eligible provided they remain under 19 years of age throughout the calendar year in which the World Junior Championships are held."
for reference pls check out this link: http://www.intbadfed.org/Portal/documents/wldjunio.pdf

so unless u mean that the world champs is an age 18 and below tournament (ie definition #1) then your point on the world champs being an under 19 tournament is sadly mistaken.

further proof being no player born before 1986 (1986= 18 years old) played in the tournament. yes... i did check.

4) i prefer to confirm the standard of terminology before i continue on the 'age group' discussion.

5) i have already retracted my previous statement. thank you for reading

6) sorry for being such a smart-ass. God knows i can be quite good at it.

that's all for now.


jug

p.s. i hope BF comes up with a standard terminology for the age groups that we can use in future discusions.

 

[hcyong]

I see a lot of foreign-born names among the Singaporean finalists, mainly from China and the rest from Indonesia. I only saw one Singaporean name there (a runner-up in boys' singles). I would have thought that by now, with the sports school up and running, there would be more Singaporean-born players taking control, but it seems foreign-born players still take the top spots at every age group.

 

[Loh]

As promised, I now post some pics taken during the Finals.

By the way, on the question of the legal age, this differs from country to country. In Singapore you are still considered a minor, legally speaking, if you are below 21 years of age. The implication is that you cannot vote and engage in financial and contractual obligations. Some have argued that perhaps the limit should be lowered to 18 years as our male youths have to serve National Service, meaning literally they are trained to defend their country and give of their lives if necessary. But what about the ladies who do not have to serve NS? So the debate goes on...

As for the age classifications for badminton tournaments, this may also differ depending on circumstances. For the less official tournaments, the organizers can relax the rules by specifying that the age should not exceed such and such number of years at the date of the tournament. Some organizers may insist on the cut-off date as the first day of the current year or January 1st.

Incidentally, the rest of the winners for this tournament, apart from the 5 that I have listed in my previous post are:

1. U15 GS: Fu Mingtian (SIN) bt Yao Lei (SIN) 11-4, 13-11.
2. U17 BS: Abdul Latif Mahd Ariff (MAS) bt Chan Kwong Beng (MAS) 15-13, 15-3.
3. U19 BS: Djohan Erwin (SIN) bt Chew Swee Hau (SIN) 15-13, 15-9.
4. U13 GS: Sheng Ying (SIN) bt Taerattanachai Sapsiree (THA) 11-4, 11-7.
5. U15 GD: Fu Mingtian & Zhang Beiwen (SIN) bt Cheng Wan Hui & Peng Hsiao Chu (TPE) 15-11, 17-14.
6. U19 GD: Hsieh Pei Chen & Tsai Pei Ling (TPE) bt Liu Chia Chi & Liu Hsiao Jo (TPE) 15-7, 15-8.
7. U19 BD: Lee Sheng Mu & Liao Wei Cheng (TPE) bt Farhad & Fauzi Adnan (INA) 15-8, 15-2.
8. U17 GD: Sari Shinta Mulya & Xing Aiying (SIN) bt Akarakulchai Kewalin & Patpal Chirapha (THA) 15-3, 15-11.
9. U17 BD: Kurniawan Rizki & Okvana Viki Indra (INA) bt Abdul Latif Mohd Ariff & Mawan Vountus Indra (MAS) 15-11, 12-15, 15-12. (I missed mentioning this very exciting 3-gamer in my previous post.)

I will start off with attaching pics of the officials, line judges, Singapore's women's coach Chen, our elderly masseur from China, the clown who entertained many children with his cartoon balloons, the prize giving ceremonies for U15 BS, U15 GS, U17 BS, U17 GS, U19 BS, U19 GS, U13 BS, U13 GS, U15 BD, U15 GD, U17 BD, U17 GD and U19 GD (I missed the last 2 events, U19 BD and U17 GD), before proceeding to show the action on the courts for the various categories. Enjoy

 

[jug8man]

There is no confusion. Under-19 has to mean below the age of 19. That means age 18 and below. Under-19 is not inclusive of 19

thanks but...

1) u dont sound very confident of your satement by using the word 'has' in it.

2) oh but there is a confusion.
as i have said in malaysia under 18 refers to age 18 and below. means inclusive of age 18 and 18+ in the calender year as long as you are not 19 in that said year.
if according to your definition then in singapore under 18 would be not beinclusive of age 18.

However, the age-eligibility rule for the world junior champs does exclude some players who are still 18+ at the time of the tournament. (If you hold the tournament at the beginning of the year, then a lot of players who are still 18+ is not eligible). Also, I think that the World Juniors should be held every year instead of 2 years. There are big differences in level of improvement between the ages 17, 18 and 19.

hmmm more confusion

what i meant is no one born before the year 1986 was eligible to play in the just concluded world junior champs.

and as i have quoted from ibf regulations "Players are eligible provided they remain under 19 years of age throughout the calendar year in which the World Junior Championships are held."

so when i said age 18... i meant age 18+ is still 18. i didnt think i needed to specify that detail. perhaps that was my weakness in judgement.

There are big differences in level of improvement between the ages 17, 18 and 19.

not so in the last two World Jr champs.
Chen Jin won it twice. when he was age 16 2 years ago and now age 18. GWJ this years runner up is only 17 tho.


also i asked someone in the canada by means of pm that in canada under 19 is inclusive of age 19 (also 19+ just to specify to your standard of detail ) and below. this standard is same as the practice in malaysia and not according to your description of the age group terminologies.


cheers

jug

 

[Loh]

I see a lot of foreign-born names among the Singaporean finalists, mainly from China and the rest from Indonesia. I only saw one Singaporean name there (a runner-up in boys' singles). I would have thought that by now, with the sports school up and running, there would be more Singaporean-born players taking control, but it seems foreign-born players still take the top spots at every age group.

Yes the SBA has brought in quite a number of 12 to 14 year olds, mainly girls, all from China earlier this year to train and represent Singapore. I can still see many of them around and they seem to be acquitting themselves quite well to Singaporean culture and to this championship as well. These new girls won the following titles: U13 GS, U15 GS, U15 GD. Of course the two older girls who must have been here for at least 2 years now, Xing Aiying originally from China and her doubles partner, Sari Shinta Mulya from Indonesia, captured the U17 GS and GD as well.

I understand that all our foreign imports are given English lessons to help them assimilate faster into our society. The younger batch of teenagers are now housed in the Sports School to take advantage of the excellent facilities there and in the process the local badminton students in the Sport School will have a chance to interact with them and hopefully improve their own badminton skills in the process.

You may be aware that the Sports School started about a year ago with Secondary One classes mainly. The local 12 year olds are still new and to expect them to be able to compete with the China imports in this tournament may be expecting too much. I think the Sports School badminton trainees will need at least 3 to 4 years' training before they are ready to match their foreign counterparts.

Meanwhile, I think the SBA is doing the right thing by continuing to seek out regional talents who wish to live in and represent Singapore and train them. These talents, hopefully like Li Li and Ronald, will become citizens eventually and contribute to raising the local standards. I think the adult imports come and go depending on circumstances and so far quite a few Indonesian and China imports have departed but new ones will arrive to replace them. Recent ones include two 18 year-olds, one from China and Djohan Erwin from Indonesia. Erwin obviously benefitted from his few months' training here as he was able to beat some of his countrymen in this tournament and emerge the U19 BS champion. The likes of Chew Swee Hau, who lost to Erwin in the final, will only benefit from sparring with him.

 

[hcyong]

thanks but...

1) u dont sound very confident of your satement by using the word 'has' in it.

2) oh but there is a confusion.
as i have said in malaysia under 18 refers to age 18 and below. means inclusive of age 18 and 18+ in the calender year as long as you are not 19 in that said year.
if according to your definition then in singapore under 18 would be not beinclusive of age 18.

1) I meant to say it in a confident sort of way

2) I've seen terms like "18 and below" etc. That should be the correct term. Under-18 should mean 17 and below. Perhaps the Malaysian organisers have misused the term. For instance I've seen tournaments where the Malay term "umur 18 ke bawah" and "Under-18" are used side-by-side.

hmmm more confusion

what i meant is no one born before the year 1986 was eligible to play in the just concluded world junior champs.

and as i have quoted from ibf regulations "Players are eligible provided they remain under 19 years of age throughout the calendar year in which the World Junior Championships are held."

so when i said age 18... i meant age 18+ is still 18. i didnt think i needed to specify that detail. perhaps that was my weakness in judgement.

I was on another topic there. I understood perfectly what you meant. I was just saying that the world champs is not strictly under-19 because some players who are not 19 yet (at the time of the tournament), are not eligible. It's as if they use the whole of the calendar year as the period of the tournament.

not so in the last two World Jr champs.
Chen Jin won it twice. when he was age 16 2 years ago and now age 18. GWJ this years runner up is only 17 tho.

But he did improve a lot between the two championships, didn't he? One example does not make a fact. How many can say that they have won two world junior champs? Chen Jin is one special case (also Chan Chong Ming). Not only in badminton but in other sports as well. For instance, Nicol David's two junior titles in squash is considered an exceptional feat. But there are others who may have missed out because they were born in an odd year.

GWJ will never win a junior title. If Junior Champs were held in different years, Chen Jin would have won just one (assuming he isn't good enough at 15) and GWJ may win it next year.

 

[jug8man]

1) I meant to say it in a confident sort of way

2) I've seen terms like "18 and below" etc. That should be the correct term. Under-18 should mean 17 and below. Perhaps the Malaysian organisers have misused the term. For instance I've seen tournaments where the Malay term "umur 18 ke bawah" and "Under-18" are used side-by-side.

which is the exact cause of the confusion. but never the less that 'seems' to be the standard term. how are we going to change an entire worlds / communities perception. write a letter to the ibf? how much good will that do?

I was on another topic there. I understood perfectly what you meant. I was just saying that the world champs is not strictly under-19 because some players who are not 19 yet (at the time of the tournament), are not eligible. It's as if they use the whole of the calendar year as the period of the tournament.

i repeat:
"Players are eligible provided they remain under 19 years of age throughout the calendar year in which the World Junior Championships are held."

its just a standard to reduce clerical work (and errors) and get on with the tournament.

But he did improve a lot between the two championships, didn't he? One example does not make a fact. How many can say that they have won two world junior champs? Chen Jin is one special case (also Chan Chong Ming). Not only in badminton but in other sports as well. For instance, Nicol David's two junior titles in squash is considered an exceptional feat. But there are others who may have missed out because they were born in an odd year.

GWJ will never win a junior title. If Junior Champs were held in different years, Chen Jin would have won just one (assuming he isn't good enough at 15) and GWJ may win it next year.

correction. latest news being the world jr champs are going to be held annually. so GWJ might have a chance to win 1 after all.... unless someone else can stand in his way.


cheers

jug