Chinese Badminton

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by Justin L, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. Accordaz

    Accordaz Regular Member

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    CY wants to go to Rio with Lu Kai?
    I thought the main target to partner CY with Lu Kai and FHF with Zhang Nan is to train other and younger MD players.
    But if both, CY and FHF, will play until Rio, why won't the play together? Too old to play together?
     
  2. Devendra

    Devendra Regular Member

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    Totally true, Justin.

    It is very very important that the juniors get, not only international exposure, but much more importantly personal attention of decent coaches, motivation, and encouragement. People often talk about competition, but there is one downside to competition. When you are training with a very good team, like say Song Xue or Tian Houwei, with the likes of Chen Long, Lin Dan, Chen Jin, Zhang Nan, and their female compatriots, you start questioning yourselves, start losing your motivation. You also don't get the required attention from coaches, are always in the shadows of those players, and no encouragement.

    I have seen the above thing first hand for my studies of course. In India you have this coaching system for preparation to take exams for top-notch colleges in India (the Indian Institute of Technology or as famously known as the IITs.) There are some big big coaching institutes in Kota(a city which is known for its education industry in India). What they do is that they group students by batches according to their strength. What happens is that when you are the mediocre student of the batch, even if it is itself the highest, you become overwhelmed. Receive no "importance" or positive motivation and lose your zeal. I have seen that happening to so many brilliant students in Kota, that sometimes training with better students becomes harmful. It degrades confidence. Some of the students of my batches finally performed worse than those of low batches, or even worse, the students who didn't come to Kota at all.

    So for example you have say Song Xue and Srikanth. Srikanth gets a lot of personal attention and motivation. Whatever he does, he can only get encouragement from the coaches. He also gets a lot of personal time, and of course international exposure. Not the same with Song.

    Someone before was remarking here, that why does Chinese player need international exposure when they are so good internally, akin to USA for Basketball. It is a totally wrong analogy.
    Why?

    Because:
    1. China is not as dominant in Badminton as US is in Basketball. There is almost no chance in hell for any country to win any major from a US Basketball team. Not the case with Badminton. Table tennis and Diving may perhaps equal the domination of US in basketball for china.

    2. The exact place where you are supposed to perform matters the most for experience. In Basketball, it is the NBA, the US internal tournament that is the mecca of basketball. THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO WIN. And hence, you don't need to waste time doing rounds across the globe. It is rather US players who already have an advantage at home, and the foreign players coming in must adjust to THEIR conditions.

    Here, it is exactly the opposite. The prime place to perform is the international circuit and the Olympics. It doesn't matter how good you are, but you have to have a dress rehearsal many times of the exact situations. It makes a lot of difference. As my analogy with my college entrance will go, it is akin to the many hundreds of test that I gave during my time in the same format, timings and conditions of the JEE (the college entrance exam of the IITs).

    I rather feel pity for the Chinese second stringers, and youngsters that they don't get the same exposure, and support.

    What I would suggest is to assign a separate coach to second stringers like Tian Houwei, Song xue (1 for 2) and the coach's task would be to get these players coming. They should be trained separately from the seniors. So in essence there should be small mini-task force. These players should fight against the seniors. The coach and the players should be given handsome remuneration and promoted to the main team if they are successful. And this is not akin to the China B-team I am talking. Slightly different.
     
  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I want a 'Like' button for Devendra's post.
     
  4. SibugiChai

    SibugiChai Regular Member

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    I LIKE it too... however, i must point out USA basketball has lost few times, the most notable one is with Big NBA players in 2004 olympic & few times in world championship.
     
  5. Devendra

    Devendra Regular Member

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    Thanks.

    And that is what I'm saying. The biggest stage in basketball is NOT olympics but the NBA.
    No body cares about olympics much.
     
  6. SibugiChai

    SibugiChai Regular Member

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    yes, most of the NBA players doesnt even bother the International stages.

    NBA is where the $$$$ is... Olympic & etc just like a sense of duty to the nation

    Badminton can happen like this too, if lets say, China league offer more $$$ consistently, some players will focus on the league, after all badminton is not a game for them, its their job
     
  7. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I beg to differ. Badminton for these top professionals is more than (just) a job, it's their passion without which they cannot excel in their beloved sport. The same goes for any high achievers in any endeavour, be it sport, music, art, literature, acting, painting, science or cookery, handicraft, flower arrangement, gardening, pottery, the list goes on.
     
  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Once again,Team China's performance leaves much to be desired, that on homeground at Fuzhou, CHN Open'14. Yet another wake-up call. The overall situation is deteriorating at an alarming rate when the elite players like Chen Long, WYH and WSX faltered even before the semifinals. Stop the rot, CBA.
     
  9. SibugiChai

    SibugiChai Regular Member

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    yes, u r right, these professional are bill gates, warren buffer or badminton...

    passion without pay = hobby

    passion with pay still a job, just that they do it passionately, failure to excel will likely end with no pay
     
  10. Mr. Epic

    Mr. Epic Regular Member

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    China stars determined to make amends for flop

    Forget the failure at the China Open, it was just a blip … Chinese women shuttlers are still the dominant force in the world, says their coach Chen Jin.

    No mainlander reached the women's singles badminton final on Sunday in the US$700,000 event in Fuzhou, won by India's Saina Nehwal over Akane Yamaguchi of Japan.

    "It was just an accident in the China Open," said Chen after watching his charge, top seed Wang Shixian, easily beat Eriko Hirose of Japan 21-9, 21-13 in the first round of the Yonex-Sunrise Hong Kong Open women's singles at the Coliseum in Hung Hom on Wednesday.

    In general, Chinese women still stand firmly at the world's highest level, although we are facing more challenges from other countries now CHEN JIN, COACH OF CHINA'S WOMEN BADMINTON TEAM
    "It was the first time in 11 Superseries that we did not make the final. But in general, Chinese women still stand firmly at the world's highest level, although we are facing more challenges from other countries now."

    Chinese women have recorded an impressive gold medal haul in the Superseries so far this year, winning nine out 11, with the Hong Kong leg to be decided before the finals in Qatar.

    World No 1 Li Xuerui, who pulled out of the China Open due to injury, has four titles, followed by Wang with three, while Wang Yihan has won twice. Nehwal has won two events.

    Chen, who won the men's singles title at the Hong Kong Open in 2008, admitted there was now more pressure on the Chinese women. "We are always the team to beat while the opponents have nothing to lose when playing against us," said Chen, who took over the coaching job from twice former Olympic champion Zhang Ning in January.

    With many top women from other nations adopting the playing style of leading male competitors, Chen said the Chinese women also needed to make changes. "I was assigned the job because the head coach wants to instil a different approach for the women's team, so that we can maintain our winning edge by adding more elements of the men's game."

    Wang, who was ousted by Yamaguchi in the second round of the China Open, said the defeat was nothing to worry about.

    "We are approaching the end of the season and the legs are sore," said Wang, who won the All England, India and French Open titles. "Other players always play 110 per cent against Chinese players, making life difficult for us. But I don't feel the pressure too much because if we can perform to our best, we are still the much better side."

    In the men's singles on Wednesday, Kidambi Srikanth of India, who defeated China's Lin Dan in the China Open final, continued his winning run by overcoming Chou Tien-chen of Taiwan, the French Open champion. The Indian won the first-round tie 18-21, 22-20, 21-16 while top seed Chen Long of China beat India's Ajay Jayaram 21-13, 21-7.

    Source - http://www.scmp.com/sport/hong-kong/article/1644019/china-stars-determined-make-amends-flop
     
  11. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    It's a no win situation for the Chinese team. The criticism will come if they sweep the gold medals. And the critics get even more charged up if they don't sweep the gold medals, with the exception of the MD gold medal.
     
  12. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    And now Wang Yihan is bundled out in R2 of the HK Open by MAS Tee Jing Yi. I can understand Chen Jin's desire to steady the ship by some encouraging words and motivational talk but I think he's being a bit too optimistic. Past glories is no guarantee of future success, and the downward trend is not coming to a halt, it seems.

    For me, I'm much more heartened by the CHN juniors' performance at the moment, esp Zeng Siwei/Chen Qingchen, Li Junhui/Liu Yuchen and He Bingjiao. They are showing a lot of drive, motivation and hunger for success and are proving it on the senior international stage. I very much hope CBA don't artificially hold them back to keep them for future use but allow them to progress naturally according to their abilities by offering them sufficient opportunities in the senior international circuit. Exceptions should be made for the truly outstanding ones with prodigious talents.
     
  13. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    The way I see it now, the fear of CHN dominance is overblown these two years after the London OG clean sweep. I'm sure Li Yongbo would consider 2013 and 2014 the two worst years for Team CHN in the last one or two decades; this year alone, CHN lost two major championships in the Thomas Cup and the Asian Games Men's Team Gold, not to mention the big flop in the CHN Open PSS on home soil.

    Let's not kid ourselves that the rest of the world is catching up with CHN mainly in one or two disciplines, namely MD and MS (with the sole exception of Lin Dan). Team CHN is actually besieged from all sides in every discipline, except WD to a lesser extent.
     
  14. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    As for Tian Houwei, he's suffering a crisis of confidence, the number of times he came close to victory only to have it snatched from him is debilitating, sapping his inner belief. He has to start winning to believe in himself again or he's going to waste away as time goes by.
     
  15. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    I sometimes feel from observation that all the young Players appear to be going through a total change in their playing technique. They appear to be learning a deceptive strokeplay technique with a lot of patience. THW, G.Huan, XS and WZM had very attacking smashes in their younger days when they burst on the scene. I first saw WZM play against KT in an Indian tournament. KT attacked almost all the time in that match But WZM outsmashed him everytime with interest. Later in all the tournaments after that WZM was playing like an older Lin Dan and rarely smashed. The same happened to THW, XS and GH.
    I think this technique that they are adopting develops patience, great footwork, good temperament and deception. It saves energy. Once they get through this period and can play with confidence and belief that they have got it they begin the aggressive play. The young players that have achieved a higher level are now showing that they can attack. WZM is a good example. He is faster and attacks at the right time. GHuan has also shown that he has reached a good level and nearly beat WKWong at the Macau open. Lastly XS is now showing that he also js getting there. If you look at XS's physique at the end of the game against WKW yesterday you can see he has toned his body ala LCW and LD. Thats why he took off his shirt!! Only THW hasnt gone back to his old attacking ways ie when he played LCW in Australia.
    This is my observation.
     
  16. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    More from Chen Jin http://sports.qq.com/a/20141128/015985.htm dated 28th Nov (just the highlights):

    Li Xuerui is still recovering from her leg injury and was absent from some of the training. Regarding LXR's loss to Marin at the Copenhagen WC, CJ felt it was accidental:" If they were to meet again, LXR to be sure wouldn't lose." For fitness/stamina problem you can rectify it by training, the mental aspect it's not easy at all. After that loss, LXR was devastated, her confidence took a big hit, more than once she bemoaned to CJ:" Chen Sir, I really don't wish to train anymore, but there's nothing I can do about it, I have to carry on training and continue to shoulder the responsibility." Hearing this, on the one hand CJ was moved, on the other hand he and Li Yongbo and the other coaches are doing their best to help LXR emerge from her WC desolation as soon as possible.

    What about Wang Yihan and Wang Shixian's dismal performances in the last two SS events, the CHN Open and the HK Open? Regarding WYH, CJ did not criticize but instead praise her:" She's sick, but after defeat she didn't explain it to the reporters or withdraw from the tournaments, such a spirit and determination deserves to be encouraged."

    As for WSX's defeats to Akane Y and Liu Xin, CJ expressed:"WSX is just too tired, Open tournaments aren't the same as the big event World Championships where you could do your best to mobilize your level of excitement, in the open tournaments you just have to slack off a little, your opponent snatches a few points and you quickly come a cropper."

    With regard to the newly emerging WS opponents, CJ analyzed the situation thus:" Foreign players face no pressure playing us, on the contrary, they are very excited and easily play above themselves, but they are unable to persist at a high level all the time. Frequently, after being eliminated in one or two rounds,they have time to do some practice on-site, but our players often have to compete to the finals and after that rush to the next tournament whilst for our opponents they have enough rest and thereby find it easier to perform. Moreover, it doesn't matter for them to lose six or seven events, so long as they win one event, whereas our players are demanded to win every one of them."

    Talking about the Rio Olympics,CJ didn't actually see it as having to choose two out of three, namely the Trio, LXR, WSX and WYH. His view:" Three choose two is what the outside world thinks, I don't see it that way. To us,the more competition we have in the Olympic selection is the more reasonable. Just like the previous London Olympics or even the Beijing Olympics, we actually have about six players vying for the spots. In this way, team members realizing the intensity of the contention will themselves put in more effort and train harder. If there are only three to fight for the two places, the demands they make of themselves at training will be reduced."

    For the sake of creating more intense competition internally,CJ beginning next year intends to nurture Liu Xin, Sun Yu ,these few players. He added:" In reality,they are not bad during normal training and have wins and losses versus LXR, WYH and WSX. It's just that these three senior members already assumed roles at the previous Olympic cycle, in terms of competition experience and results, they are better than the other two; therefore, from now on, I will let these two members (LX and SY) play in more competitions and garner more ranking points."

    After all is said and done, only two will get to go to the Olympics. As to which two, CJ said he wouldn't just consider their individual status and world ranking, but after receiving the Olympic qualification application, he will look at each of their overall results against foreign players and their respective forms.

    CJ is fully aware of the undertaking of WS in the national team's assumed responsibilities -- WD, WS, XD,the quest for golds appear the most stable , seemingly least likely to fail, but CJ also understands:"If I were to rank the team's standings, WD is the most reliable, right on top,but you saw the WD also flopped at the Asian Games. So you see, in fact,we don't have absolute certainty of success in any discipline, crisis exists everywhere. As such, for the Olympics we have to produce two truly strong players, our target of course is the championship, however, for me, not only that,but to have both of them able to meet in the final in Rio."
     
  17. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    By right, Chen Jin's decision to give Liu Xin and Sun Yu chances at having a go at the Rio Olympics by giving them more playing opportunities to garner ranking points is very good news for them.

    But I'm not too hopeful of Liu Xin's prospects, having seen her a number of times reduced to passivity and forced to react to the strong attacking game of certain opponents and unable to seize the initiative most of the time, viz. Sung JH, Saina , Tai TY. I'd place Liu Xin's style somewhere between WYH and WSX, a bit more towards the latter. At age 24 now, I feel Liu Xin's level is more or less at or near her full potential, I doubt she can raise her game another level, but I'd be most happy if she can prove me wrong.

    Regarding Sun Yu, I'm more positive but for the time being there are obvious weaknesses and shortcomings in her game to work on. IMHO, her attacking play is still not strong enough, lacking in sudden injection of pace, so much so some of the opponents with superb defence are able to retrieve her offensive shots, sometimes with interest and wearing her down. If I may say so, I noticed her making big but measured steps in her movement instead of quicker steps to take the shots as early as possible with more options to execute more threatening shots.

    Of course, the ability to read the opponent's game better helps her to move faster in anticipation but this can only come from experience and the more intelligent she is the faster she learns to think for herself a few steps ahead. That's why it's essential for Sun Yu to play many more tournaments, take a few hard knocks and come out the wiser. As for Sun Yu's mental strength, I've no idea as she was never really tested on the big stage though she played once in the last Uber Cup albeit against weak opposition.

    As it is, against Akane, Sun Yu admitted being amazed at her young opponent's retrieving ability, the same thing happened to her from Kim Hyo Min who was able to throw almost everything back at SY to dent her attacks. In addition, I still suspect Sun Yu's fitness/stamina leaves much room for improvement as supreme fitness is demanded of offensive players, more so than defensive ones.
     
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I am not too hopeful of Liu Xin nor Sun Yu either.

    Liu Xin has the tenacity but doesn't have the free flowing nature of a single players.

    Sun Yu is still raw. Compared to PV Sindhu of comparable height, Sun Yu's movements look slow.

    Barring injury, it looks like Wang Shi Xian and Liu Xue Rui for me.

    Wang Yi Han's strapping can't protect those knees for another 2 years!
     
  19. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    With only two spots to Rio for the top three players in the world, the Chinese team does not need more competitions. Liu Xin is an insurance policy and Sun Yu is a shot in the dark. Neither is expected to go to Rio, unless some dramatic developments take place between now and then.

    Given their height, the comparison between Sun Yu and Sindu is inevitable. At this point on the development curve, Sindu is way ahead with two World Championship medals to show for.

    Although both are tall, their body types are quite different. They will develop and play differently. Sun Yu will always be slower than Sindu, but may get stronger than Sindu. Another issue is the log jam in WS on the Chinese team. While Sindu can play whenever she likes, Sun Yu has often been out of competition for extended periods by the team's decision.

    Still at age 20, there is still a lot of development left for Sun Yu. We shall see after the Rio Olympics when she will have to show the world what a player she really is.
     
  20. zhuangcorp

    zhuangcorp Regular Member

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    Clearly ZN/FHF and CB/HW are the top 2 MD pairs for China at the moment. But within these pairs, it seems to me that ZN and HW are the strongest player of each team. I'd love to see these 2 play together!

    I wonder if LYB has given any thought to that.
     

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