Chinese Badminton

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by Justin L, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    There is just not enough fire power in ZN/HW pairing. Since HW got everyone's attention at the Chinese National Games 5 years ago, he has not improved much. I'd pair CB with ZN, if they do break up the current pairings.

    CB/HW pairing is here to stay. The big question is whether and when CB will get stronger mentally. With their recent successes, I hope that both will ride the wave and improve their games.
     
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    yes, it's often times painful to watch chai biao crack up, usually in the third game...

    if he can hold up throughout all 3 games, then this pair will be quite powerful
     
  3. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    For Zhang Nan, should he play both XD and MD ( with Fu Haifeng) for the Rio Olympic cycle? Can he cope and really do well in both disciplines? If not, anything less than an appearance in the finals for both events is considered a failure, will it be better for him to just stick to XD and let FHF quickly find another partner? In the latter case, who would be the best choice for FHF, assuming Cai Yun is already firmed up with Lu Kai as reported earlier?

    I'm thinking, Zheng Siwei and Huang Kaixiang are too young and inexperienced for Fu Haifeng,same goes for Li Jinhui and Liu Yuchen,all of whom are clearly a mismatch with FHF. Aside from Liu XL and Qiu ZH, assuming they also firm up as a pair, that leaves among the slightly older players than ZSW/HKX to choose from, say, Wang Yilv, Zhang Wen, Liu Cheng, Kang Jun,...can't think of anybody else.
     
  4. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    On another note, every time I look at Akane Yamaguchi and K Srikanth, I can't help but feel sorry for He Bingjiao and Xue Song. See where the two aforementioned are today, Akane and Srikanth, playing regularly at the senior circuit and after several hard knocks initially.

    I venture to say if both He BJ and Xue Song are given free rein, playing at least 10 to 15 tournaments a year at GPG and SS levels, they will achieve as much as if not more than the abovementioned, I've no doubt about it. Just imagine if they were non-CHN players...need I say more.

    I fully understand why CBA would much prefer to keep the younger talents for future use and not have too many CHN players 'killing' each other at the top. But considering the overall situation CBA is in now the last two years - where in MS they have to depend on the aging Lin Dan while Chen Long is vulnerable and there's no one else to call upon, and in WS, even LXR is not invulnerable while both WYH and WSX are just not reliable enough as evident of late - I'd unequivocally say if not now then when ?

    As is well known, CHN has proven herself to have no lack of budding, young talents year after year. Why not make the fullest and best use of what you have today and let the future take care of itself? Just look at CHN table tennis where of the top 10 players in MS and WS, CHN consistently occupies six of them respectively at any one time, not only the top three positions mostly but, in addition, practically any of their top 10 players are good enough to win any major championship in effect. Incidentally, the 17-year-old wonder boy, Fan Zhengdong, is now world number 3, was at number 2 briefly.

    In badminton, the fear of CHN dominance is overstated. It is common in almost any sport to be dominated by any nation, a natural development when you allow nature to take its own course rather than put obstacles in its path to artificially prevent it from happening. Whatever it is, we must always ensure a level playing field for all without discrimination to allow the best to be the best they can be. In any field, just because one nation is dominant does not mean the rest should lose interest and suffer for it. Do we see that happening in sports such as tennis, basketball,just to name two? In science and technology or medicine, for that matter, just because one nation is the undisputed leader, the rest of the world are worse off? As long as the leading nation(s) play by the rules and continuously contribute to raising the standard, the world as a whole will be better off.

    I simply fail to understand why it is always fairer and healthier only when we see different nations, the more the merrier, standing at the winners' podium instead of the best of the best, regardless of nation or personality, even if it is the same nation or person, doing so time after time. In professional sport, nobody admires a Nadal or Federer or Kobe Bryant the less for being so dominant in their respective fields of endeavour. Similarly, we shouldn't admire, say, American basketball, Chinese Table Tennis, the less.
     
  5. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    Breaking up a WR1 pairing as in XD is too much to give up. In doubles only break up a pair when it is clear that they have reached a "crossroad" ie they have tried in many tournaments and failed to win.
    Also its very demoralising to break up a pair that has shown good combination and understanding , especially when they have just started to show promise. Chns MD is beginning to show much improvement and credit should be given to whoever has made this possible. They have shown the existing top pairs in the world that they are no longer the whipping boys in MD. The new pairing, ZS and HK have shown great speed and attack, whilst existing pairings like CB/HW have great defence, speed and confidence..As for FHF and CY they have shown some good results with their current partners, so they should enjoy themselves. Launch them all onto the world stage in 2015 and may the best pairs appear.
    CHN' MS is the biggest disappointment in 2014. I am not blind to CL's success in the WC and SS finals. But that is only one person. One bad performance from him as in the T. cup and AG and the whole thing falls apart. Where is the depth? In the past you had BCL and CJ in the singles. NOW??
    So the current thinking in the Mens and WS is all wrong. There should be a second, third and even a fourth group being nurtured and exposed onto the real world as Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand have done.in their case numerous new names feature in all the smaller tournaments around the world. Well planned by their Badminton Associations
    Is it arrogance in China's case ie they have so many world class players so they can train at home. There have been many national champions in the Chn tournaments but they have failed in the "real"
    world. Nothing beats the experience gained in playing on the world stage. No point being only a national champion.
    Come on China. Lets get some exciting new players from your youth contingent onto the world stage. I am already looking forward to the new young Korean mens singles player who performed so well recently.
     
  6. Devendra

    Devendra Regular Member

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    Now that we have the Olympic Qualifying period up soon enough, does anyone have any insights into the strategies that Li Yongbo may opt for?
     
  7. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    By Li Yongbo's definition of 'World Champions' which refers to the WC proper, the Olympic gold, and winning the team championships, viz Thomas/Uber Cup and Sudirman Cup, and so far according to him he's produced 78 of his ultimate goal of 100 world champions - taking into consideration some of his proteges are multiple world champion titlists, just Lin Dan alone account for 17 world titles - I would estimate there are about 30 to 40 players making up LYB's WC list.

    Personally, I'd say it's a stretch to count all the members of a winning team event as 'World Champions' that included reserve players, such as Sun Yu and, to a lesser extent, Bao Yixin and Tang Jinhua who,iirc, actually lost both their WD matches in the last Uber Cup 2014 won by CHN - all three of them are the latest who made it to the LYB's WC list. Nevertheless,in fairness to BYX/TJH, I should point out that the pair achieved a remarkable winning streak of several SS and GPG titles in the previous year.

    Anyway, we are only talking about LYB's personal classification of world champions, whatever that means, the purpose it serves. For me, I prefer to count the number of players who won world titles rather than the number of world titles won as 'World Champions'. Simply put, to be specific, I'd count Lin Dan as one world champion instead of 17, irrespective of the number of world titles he's acquired. But that's just my opinion. Nonetheless, I've to admit the number of world titles won by LYB's charges during his long tenure as Head Coach has its significance too.
     
  9. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Has Sun Yu won any SS title before?
     
  10. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    A check on the BWF website revealed none. Her best results, apart from the Sudirman Cup last year, was winning two GPGs, one in Macau 2012 and another at the Bitburger open 2014. The closest she came to capturing a SS title was in the final of the SIN Open 2013 where she lost to Li Xuerui.
     
  11. scorpion1

    scorpion1 Regular Member

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    Sun Yu lost to Li xuerui in the semifinals of Singapore open 2013.
     
  12. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    Not quite. You have to play and win at least one match in a cup winning tournament to qualify. If the team failed to win the cup or you lost all your matches, you don't get to be a "WC". Still a stretch but more reasonable.

    Sun Yu is back to her hard-luck self to potentially face LXR in the 2nd round at AE. She is 0-1 against her first round opponent Jindapon.
     
  13. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

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    Now LYB's plan for the Olympic for WS is clear. LXR is a lock if she stays injury free. Players from other countries are not afraid of facing WYH and WSX. Other young Chinese WS players will have chances to prove themselves and grab the remaining spot. Sun Yu, it is your chance in this edition of All England.
     
  14. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    LYB can only send 2 girls in WS for Rio 2016.

    I think the qualification for Rio has already started for many Chinese girls.
     
  15. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I would favour WYH if she were to remain injury free.

    Still a year away to the Olympics. Many things can happen.
     
  16. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

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    There is no doubt WYH is the safer bet. I believe LYB would like assurance that if one of the top guns for some reason cannot attend the Olympic in top form, he will have a plan B or C. Given chances to develop in the world stage, those young players can beat anyone in the world. Minus the Chinese, there are not too many exceptional WS players at this moment. The only one that is above the others is TTY and she still have room to improve.
     
  17. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I'm afraid, after what happened to WYH yesterday vis-a-vis Saina, WYH is not a safe bet.

    I'd go so far as to say, the WYH of pre-LOG'12 days which I admire is no more, a thing of the past. I can only wish she proves me wrong soon, I don't know.
     
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Can't pass comment as I didn't see the match. Saina must have played well or adapted to the conditions much better (remember, new environment).
     
  19. Devendra

    Devendra Regular Member

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    The way I see it, the dominance of Chinese WS is coming to an end.

    Chinese WS players have been extremely dominant for close to 2 decades. Obviously they were really good competitors before, but starting from the time after Susi Susanti, they just owned Badminton. Very few players were able to make even a dent.

    But now, I see that we are in for a protracted (at least for 4 years) period where they won't dominate.

    Why?
    Let's see:

    1. They have 3 top tier players: Li Xuerui, Wang Yihan, Wang Shixian. None of these players are complete by themselves.
    LXR is clearly showing a finals problem. She gets nervous quick in finals. Also, with more finals that you screw up, it gets harder to come back, simply because you start doubting yourselves.
    Wang Shixian was never a winner. She was at best a companion. Many players, especially the attacking ones like Saina find it relatively easy to win against her. She has never been a champion. She has an awful attack.
    Wang Yihan, well she seems to be the black card here. No body knows exactly what's going on with her. In the match with Saina, for some time I was impressed with Wang. And then in Game 2 she just gave up.

    2. There is no one coming to fill the gap
    The players who can come include Sun Yu, Han Li, Liu Xin. None of these players are developed enough. Players the same as theirs in other countries like Ratchanok, Sindhu are much better. They don't seem to show the acumen.

    3. Other countries and regions are getting very good and they are many
    There are many players who are performing very well.
    These are the players:
    Saina Nehwal
    Ratchanok
    Tai Tzu Ying
    Carolina Marin
    PV Sindhu
    Sung Ji Hyun
    Bae Yeon Ju
    Nozomi Okuhara
    Akane Yamaguchi

    Not only this, sometimes you don't even know which one will fire. Also, among these Saina and Tai are envious form lately.

    Hence, the old guard of China is vanguishing, with no one to immediately take the reign.

    How did they come to this situation?

    1. Not sending players on regular tourneys
    Young players like Sun Yu and Liu Xin barely get to go out to play.

    2. Not concentrating on Junior players enough

    3. Over-reliance on Safe Bets and elder players.
     
  20. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    It's long overdue, high time for CHN to bite the bullet. LYB, Chen Jin, Zhang Ning, face the truth squarely, get to the root of the problem , do some soul searching, stop consoling yourselves and believe things aren't that bad, it is getting serious, actually.

    The last quarter of 2014 when LXR was out of competition due to injury, what happened? Those few SS tournaments that LXR were absent, namely French Open, CHN Open, HK Open and Dubai SSF, all went to the rest of the world; in the Dubai SSF, both WYH and WSX went out before the semifinals.

    As for LXR, she may be world number one and still the best bet for CHN to win Olympic gold, the fact that she faltered in self-destructive mode at the final hurdle of the world championships the last two years, is a cause for concern. It showed her vulnerabilities at crucial matches when under the pressure of expectations. Who is to know the same inexplicable mental collapse might not afflict her again at the Rio Olympics, widely regarded as the world's grandest stage,where every athlete dreams of standing at the winners podium, specifically to scoop the most-coveted, highest accolade, the gold medal.

    In past Olympics, CHN used to have at least three main contenders for OG gold as per the Olympic quota with all three players almost a class above and able to beat anyone in the rest of the world. For the Rio'16 Olympics, the rule has changed to maximum two per nation/NOC and yet it now appears that CHN has trouble finding two top contenders who are good enough to ensure victory for gold. For now, only Li Xuerui alone still qualifies as a safe or sure bet, if there's such a thing.

    There is no insurance, so to speak. What if she fails to deliver for her own reasons or due to unforeseen circumstances beyond her control? What then? What is to be done?
     

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