Chinese pair reprimanded for tanking

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by kwun, Aug 28, 2003.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    40,163
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    Chinese pair reprimanded for tanking

    LONDON: Chinese doubles duo Yang Wei and Zhang Jiewen have been reprimanded by the International Badminton Federation (IBF) after being found guilty of deliberately losing a quarter-final match at the World Championships in Birmingham earlier this month.

    Yang Wei and Zhang Jiewen were given a dressing down by the IBF disciplinary committee after they were adjudged not to have been trying in a last-eight tie against compatriots and eventual world champions Gao Ling and Huang Sui, an IBF statement said.

    Yang Wei and Zhang Jiewen were charged with bringing the game into disrepute under the players’ code of conduct for not trying against Gao Ling and Huang Sui, the world number one pairing.

    Gao Ling and Huang Sui won a tight first game 15-11, but concerns were raised about the second game, which the defending champions won easily 15-3 to book their place in the semi-finals. – AFP
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    40,163
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
  3. TOmike

    TOmike Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2002
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Toronto
    i've always wondered how you can prove someone is not trying ;)
     
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    40,163
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    reprimanded - basically a disapproval of their conduct. in other words, not really any penalty at all. i wonder if that's an appropriate action to deter similar future happenings. i remember previous cases has been fined,i wonder if IBF should've fined the Chinese pair just to warn that similar actions in the future will be punished.
     
  5. Hugo

    Hugo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    If a fine was to be issued, who should deserve it? The pairing or the person(s) that gave the command... cough cough... Li or another member of authority on national team staff?
     
  6. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    963
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Accountant / Coach
    Location:
    uk
    Maybe they should have been sentenced to acting classes by the chinese officials
     
  7. Iwan

    Iwan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,874
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Singapore
    A fine is just not good enough. I'd say suspension is the best course of action should a player do such misbehaviour in a world class tournament, accompanied with a fine that is.
     
  8. Mag

    Mag Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,347
    Likes Received:
    4
    Occupation:
    Graphic Designer
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Suspension is too harsh

    As much as we may dislike what the Chinese players/coaches did, there should still be a sense of justice. In other words, proof is needed. I'm actually quite surprised that they even got a reprimand.

    Remember we're talking about professional athletes here. Suspension is the hardest form of punishment for a professional athlete. I really don't think that this case calls for a suspension.
     
  9. blckknght

    blckknght Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2003
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Pastry Chef
    Location:
    Vermont, USA
    I say, hear hear to that mag
     
  10. badmad

    badmad Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    santa clara, CA & India
    mag..
    they should have been punished a bit harshly... firstly for the sake of game and secondly for the audience sake who spent their buck to see this sheer match-fixing... I support suspending them bcoz, then, they & their accomplice.. ;) .. would realise the fact.
     
  11. seven

    seven New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Computing Engineer
    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I'm not sure it's the players who should be punished...

    If their coach told them to act that way, they didn't have much choice.
    I think the coaches should maybe be punished somehow (but this would require proofs...).
     
  12. david14700

    david14700 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    reply

    I can't agree with the idea of suspending the players. I'm sure Yang and Zhang wanted more than anyone to prove they could beat Gao and Huang in a fair match (i.e. best of 3 games), but the coaches have this win first/win all policy for the team's sake.

    Yang and Zhang have already beaten Gao and Huang twice in the finals of other tournaments so they know they have the game, and it must be frustrating for them not to be able to play the match fully. I think to punish the players for a team policy is wrong.

    If the IBF was sure enough of match-fixing to reprimand the players, then surely the IBF should have had the courage to penalise the Chinese coaches as well. But this way, by reprimanding Yang and Zhang, the IBF placates those other national teams who have complained, and they don't do anything to anger the Chinese Bad Assoc. It just seems the IBF have taken the easy way out instead of trying to handle the real issue.
     
  13. nSmash

    nSmash Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Computer Engineer
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I think that the coach should have been reprimanded together with the
    players, and the responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen again be
    put on the coach.
     
  14. whizkelv

    whizkelv Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Yes, putting the blame solely on the players is simply not fair!:mad:
     
  15. ants

    ants Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    13,156
    Likes Received:
    24
    Occupation:
    Entrepreneur , Modern Nomad
    Location:
    Malaysian Citizen of the World
    I don't think it will be fair for the players as well.. the team or coach should be warned as well. Hmmm its like Formula 1 already.. team orders on who to win.
     
  16. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    40,163
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    technically, i think the players should be the ones who get fined as the WC is an individual event.

    however, if they do get fined, i think the money will not be coming out of the pocket of the players but instead out of the pocket of the BA behind the decision...

    i too think that suspension is a bit harsh as the violation concerned can be quite subjective and there can never be solid proof.

    i still think a fine (can be small or medium amount) is the most appropriate punishment here. and i am surprised that IBF didn't do that.

    i think suspension should be left for other more severe offense like drug taking that can be solidly proven.
     
  17. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,096
    Likes Received:
    14
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    I agree.

    "Not trying" can contain totally various issues:

    1. Strategy: like the rumors of chinese team, save the best pair for the next round

    2. Stamina: If a player is totally out of gas after 1st set, what can we do to push him/her still put on a fight?

    3. Mentally give up: Gong Rui Na uses 8 min to finish off her opponent in WC. Should we punish her opponent to not holding on for at least 15 min??? If u can argue with they have huge gap in skill, then, what about Zhang Ning aginst Carmilla and Mia? 11-0 on the 2nd set? Don't tell me these 2 could be 1000 steps behind Zhang, but simply they gave up mentally (maybe stamina as well). But how come no one cried out for that? At least, Yang/Zhang fought for 45 min, but Carmilla and Mia both gave up sooner than that. Should they be "fined" or "suspended" according to some posters here? Oh, no, they won't. Just because they are NOT in the chinese national team? So, we don't care about whether they "already fight to the bones" or "easily give up after there's no hope"??? Plz...

    To me, punish someone for "not trying", is just ridiculous. No rulez are perfect, and if u can't find solid proof, u can't just "imagine" then issue punishment. Same thing applied for law, and any other sports.

    Yeah, some times things might be just "obvious" (especially for the later opponent who lost). But, too bad. A true winner should just care about his/her own skill, but never complain other nations get a "pool" of good prospect. Put this way, Susi and Carmilla (back then) can fight through the huge chinese lady army. Never heard they complain about, hey blah blah blah save a little bit more stamina in the early round. Please... should I say that's "sour grape"???

    In the recently American Basketball Olympic qualification game, CAN pulled their starters on bench when against USA (even when CAN was leading). The reason is simple, they can't win against NBA players, why not save the best for other opponents? I agree the coach's idea, "we are not coming here to do a surprise upset for US, we are here to qualify Olympics!!!". Same thing can apply for chinese team, "we not not here to prove who's the best pair in china, we are here to get a gold medal for the nation!!!"
     
    #17 LazyBuddy, Aug 29, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2003
  18. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,096
    Likes Received:
    14
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    Sorry, double post.
     
  19. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,096
    Likes Received:
    14
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    Oh yeah???

    Put this way, if 2 players of ur favorite team ever met in early round, and one lose the game with fairly large gap in the 2nd set. Will u ask IBF to punish them? Just because we think "blah blah blah"???

    Is that fair for we judge player's performance just by "hey, they got 3 pts in 2nd set, but being able to get more in 1st"??? plz...

    It's more like, we can sentence someone "intentional murder" without any solid proof, but just we know these 2 don't get along with each other, and use to get into a fight.
     
  20. Hugo

    Hugo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Very good arguments LB. I agree with you. I think IBF decided on their reprimand after they saw that Zhang/Yang won S'Pore Open gold. Then they think why can't the two do that at WC. Shuttlers will be on and off at different times. It's not like a lamp where one can just turn it on and off at command.

    Also, does it really matter who won between Gao/Huang and Zhang/Yang? In the end, the gold medal still went to China as did silver. Even if Zhang/Yang did play their absolute best and won that match against Gao/Huang, the gold medal still and silver still would have went to China.
     

Share This Page