Don't buy rackets with known grommet sinking issues from e78.

[Thang Nghiem]

I got a JS10 from e78. Strung it up at 27 lbs and grommets #5 & 6 on both sides instantly started sinking (see attached pic). I replaced those individual grommets with connected ones to no avail. I am in the US, and I understand that it's counter-productive to ship the racket back to Hong Kong for warranty claim. However I wanted to talk about e78 as a business. After contacting them several times, they completely IGNORED my issue. Not even a single acknowledgement. To be fair, out of dozens of rackets from e78 that I bought in the past, none had any issues and were all smooth sailing. I just would like to call out this one time. They are supposed to be a highly reputable shop, until issues arise...

Take what you want away from this post. I just wanted to share my experience.

 

[LD rules!]

I got a JS10 from e78. Strung it up at 27 lbs and grommets #5 & 6 on both sides instantly started sinking (see attached pic). I replaced those individual grommets with connected ones to no avail. I am in the US, and I understand that it's counter-productive to ship the racket back to Hong Kong for warranty claim. However I wanted to talk about e78 as a business. After contacting them several times, they completely IGNORED my issue. Not even a single acknowledgement. To be fair, out of dozens of rackets from e78 that I bought in the past, none had any issues and were all smooth sailing. I just would like to call out this one time. They are supposed to be a highly reputable shop, until issues arise...

Take what you want away from this post. I just wanted to share my experience.

Can I ask what exactly you wanted e78 to do in this situation? To claim warranty, the racket must always be returned to the shop for them to proceed with the dispute. It is not e78's fault that Victor have provided them a substandard product and you yourself admit that the racket was not strung by e78. Onus is on you to return the racket to e78 (you have already suggested that this is counter productive and did not actually say whether your contact was to arrange the return of racket) and at end of the day, the final decision will be taken by Victor.

Thread should be titled: "Don't buy rackets with known grommet issues full stop"

Caveat emptor.

 

[Thang Nghiem]

Can I ask what exactly you wanted e78 to do in this situation? To claim warranty, the racket must always be returned to the shop for them to proceed with the dispute. It is not e78's fault that Victor have provided them a substandard product and you yourself admit that the racket was not strung by e78. Onus is on you to return the racket to e78 (you have already suggested that this is counter productive and did not actually say whether your contact was to arrange the return of racket) and at end of the day, the final decision will be taken by Victor.

Thread should be titled: "Don't buy rackets with known grommet issues full stop"

Caveat emptor.

I understand there may be not much they can do about this situation in terms of warranty claim because the racket is overseas. But for a high volume shop to completely ignore their customers' issues with a product that they should also stand behind (other than Victor), you don't see anything wrong with that? In case you don't notice, customer services have come a long way, even with notoriously crappy customer service Chinese outfits. Most retailers these days fully refund or replace a defective product without a single question asked. e78: no nothing, not even an acknowledgement. Is that how you would run a business too?

To be honest, I wouldn't even be upset if they just simply reply to me saying there is not much they can do. But snubbing their customers is what they chose to do.

 

[Thang Nghiem]

All I'm saying is, customer service and aftercare are sorely lacking in the badminton world. They don't give a crap about us customers after how much money they made off of us. Countless stories of large brands like Victor and Yonex doing basically all they can to avoid warranty claims. Yes, Yonex USA wanted me to pay for shipping both ways, and would not restring my strung racket upon an approved warranty claim. This needs to change, and we all need to voice ourselves.

 

[kwun]

I assume you are buying from e78 instead of a local authorized dealer in the US because e78 is cheaper.

For the cheaper price, what you have forgone is any customer support. I am afraid that's the reality. e78 isn't a "big" retailer, probably just a mom and pop store with a tiny store front in HK. They sell rackets with much smaller margin than the US retailers, and thus cannot afford to pay for the extra time to respond to customer and definitely will not be able to afford a loss by sending customer a replacement racket.

If you demand those type of service, you might be better off paying "full price" in from a US retailer.

 

[Thang Nghiem]

I assume you are buying from e78 instead of a local authorized dealer in the US because e78 is cheaper.

For the cheaper price, what you have forgone is any customer support. I am afraid that's the reality. e78 isn't a "big" retailer, probably just a mom and pop store with a tiny store front in HK. They sell rackets with much smaller margin than the US retailers, and thus cannot afford to pay for the extra time to respond to customer and definitely will not be able to afford a loss by sending customer a replacement racket.

If you demand those type of service, you might be better off paying "full price" in from a US retailer.

Yes, because it is cheaper. I have considered the risks, in particular before buying the JS10, because it is a rather unique racket, and everyone else in the US wanted basically double the price of e78. Now I don't really expect e78 to just send me a replacement racket, but not even a courtesy acknowledgement? And I wouldn't call e78 tiny. They are one of the 4-5 online retailers that show up on basically every thread about online retailers for badminton equipment. They probably move hundreds of rackets or more a month. And ironically, they were able to respond to all other questions I had, just not the one about a broken racket. FWIW, I spent $1,700 USD here since last year.

 

[kwun]

I think it is a matter of expectation. I do agree that they should at least acknowledge as a courtesy, but in reality, there isn't much they will do beyond that.

the online store front is very different than actual one. I have been to the physical e78. it maybe at most 400 sq ft total area.

 

[xZhongCheng]

I had the JS10 for a few years. They and the JS12s have been known to have the sinking grommet problem.

 

[Cheung]

Now I don't really expect e78 to just send me a replacement racket, but not even a courtesy acknowledgement?

Whilst standards have improved, this doesn’t surprise me in the least. HK style courtesy can lack empathy especially when using english as a second language.

 

[SSSSNT]

To be honest if I am e78, I would snub you too on this issue. There is absolutely no advantage of me saying, "yeah we know your problem but we ain't gonna do anything about it." You can then post my reply for the world to see and it might even be misunderstood as 'e78 won't do anything if anything is wrong'. By snubbing, it is more advantageous because I have some plausible deniability while hoping you'd just go away and realize that buying cheap stuff from HK from overseas means that you bear some risk.

 

[puttguy]

I would like to add that unlike many US & EU retailers HK do not have a 30 day return policy. In many cases you have a 7 day return to store if there is a problem, after this then the product goes back to manufacturer.
The issue with badminton racquets is that poor stringing practices & or stringing at a higher tension than supported is difficult to verify if the racquet hasn't been strung in the store.
I've had 4 JS12's from e78 all which have lasted me at least 3 years before the grommets sink from my thin string and high tension.

Sent from my SM-N9750 using Tapatalk

 

[Thang Nghiem]

I would like to add that unlike many US & EU retailers HK do not have a 30 day return policy. In many cases you have a 7 day return to store if there is a problem, after this then the product goes back to manufacturer.
The issue with badminton racquets is that poor stringing practices & or stringing at a higher tension than supported is difficult to verify if the racquet hasn't been strung in the store.
I've had 4 JS12's from e78 all which have lasted me at least 3 years before the grommets sink from my thin string and high tension.

Sent from my SM-N9750 using Tapatalk

I get your point. Anecdotally, I am an experienced stringer with hundreds of rackets under my belt, up to 33 lbs and not a single issue ever. I've ordered over a dozen rackets from e78 also with no issues. The JS10 has been reported to have sinking frame from as low as 24 lbs. This post isn't about the JS10, as the issue has long been established. This post is about me being disappointed as a customer spending $1,700 USD last year alone at e78, and they wouldn't even give me a single response.

 

[LD rules!]

I get your point. Anecdotally, I am an experienced stringer with hundreds of rackets under my belt, up to 33 lbs and not a single issue ever. I've ordered over a dozen rackets from e78 also with no issues. The JS10 has been reported to have sinking frame from as low as 24 lbs. This post isn't about the JS10, as the issue has long been established. This post is about me being disappointed as a customer spending $1,700 USD last year alone at e78, and they wouldn't even give me a single response.

Why do you think it should make a difference whether you spend $1,700 or $17? You bought a racket with a long established issue knowing it would probably have such an issue, and then want e78 to do what exactly? Say sorry for your issue that you knew was likely to occur?

Maybe in future... just choose a different racket?

 

[Thang Nghiem]

Why do you think it should make a difference whether you spend $1,700 or $17? You bought a racket with a long established issue knowing it would probably have such an issue, and then want e78 to do what exactly? Say sorry for your issue that you knew was likely to occur?

Maybe in future... just choose a different racket?

Stop commenting if you aren't understanding the point. The point was never about this particular racket. It's about how e78 is not giving a **** about their customers, even the ones spending a good amount of money. Got it?

 

[Thang Nghiem]

Why do you think it should make a difference whether you spend $1,700 or $17? You bought a racket with a long established issue knowing it would probably have such an issue, and then want e78 to do what exactly? Say sorry for your issue that you knew was likely to occur?

Maybe in future... just choose a different racket?

And to your point, on the flip side, since the racket has a long established issue, why doesn't e78 choose not to sell this racket? Or at least acknowledge that a percentage of these rackets suffer this issue, and do something about it? Like "hey, this issue is common, would you like to get a discount credit for the next one?", or "sorry this happened, but not much we can do about it"? Do you understand how common courtesy works? It doesn't take much to make an upset customer be happy again, but a small personal touch. But they chose to do nothing. That speaks volumes about anything that may go wrong in the future, not just this one time, understand?

 

[EastDevil]

And to your point, on the flip side, since the racket has a long established issue, why doesn't e78 choose not to sell this racket? Or at least acknowledge that a percentage of these rackets suffer this issue, and do something about it? Like "hey, this issue is common, would you like to get a discount credit for the next one?", or "sorry this happened, but not much we can do about it"? Do you understand how common courtesy works? It doesn't take much to make an upset customer be happy again, but a small personal touch. But they chose to do nothing. That speaks volumes about anything that may go wrong in the future, not just this one time, understand?

I suspect:
1) The shop doesn't check their e-mails that often or doesn't have much time to be bothered. After all, fulfilling new orders are more important than pacifying some e-mail complaints.

2) They are too small to provide the full online experience. Many famous badminton online stores aren't that big. Even Shuttle House is relatively small and no Uniqlo. I called them before and the staff that speaks English left for the day. That says a lot.

3) Since no products are perfect, going by your logic, the shop would have nothing to sell and it will be very difficult to do business since they will need to perform detailed analysis of every single product they sell before selling. As somebody has said, they are just a very small mom and pop store that happen to provide online international shipping.

One thing is, let's not get carried away with some online shops being more famous online and equate them to Amazon. It just so happens that some stores offer a English-language website and handles international shipping. That probably made them more famous.

As you said, you are just temporarily "traumatised" that they are not there to make attempts to "comfort" you over this experience. With so many rackets handled under your belt and having spent thousands on rackets, you should very easily get over it just fine. I believe an adult wouldn't react to dropping his ice-cream as severely as a child dropping his ice-cream. Relax a little.

 

[Thang Nghiem]

I suspect:
1) The shop doesn't check their e-mails that often or doesn't have much time to be bothered. After all, fulfilling new orders are more important than pacifying some e-mail complaints.

2) They are too small to provide the full online experience. Many famous badminton online stores aren't that big. Even Shuttle House is relatively small and no Uniqlo. I called them before and the staff that speaks English left for the day. That says a lot.

3) Since no products are perfect, going by your logic, the shop would have nothing to sell and it will be very difficult to do business since they will need to perform detailed analysis of every single product they sell before selling. As somebody has said, they are just a very small mom and pop store that happen to provide online international shipping.

One thing is, let's not get carried away with some online shops being more famous online and equate them to Amazon. It just so happens that some stores offer a English-language website and handles international shipping. That probably made them more famous.

As you said, you are just temporarily "traumatised" that they are not there to make attempts to "comfort" you over this experience. With so many rackets handled under your belt and having spent thousands on rackets, you should very easily get over it just fine. I believe an adult wouldn't react to dropping his ice-cream as severely as a child dropping his ice-cream. Relax a little.

I suggest you do a better job at suspecting:

1. I don't accuse people lightly. How do I know? You contact e78 by Facebook Messenger. FB has that function where you can tell if someone read your message. I sent them messages TWICE, and they read it TWICE, with no response. Hence the complaint. And ironically, they were able to answer all other questions. Funny don't you think? STOP making excuses for them.

2. Too small to provide the full online experience. I have no idea what this means. All I can say is a well-run, courteous business doesn't have the excuse of being "too small" to not make their customers as happy as can be. It doesn't take much effort to do this. Business 101.

3. This was a direct response to the other guy who told me just to not buy a certain racket. Again, if they are diligent, they would know what racket carries a negative connotation and would try to do something about it. If you run a great business, you would do this.

I am perfectly fine. I'm not even really upset about this. You think I'd lose sleep over a $100 racket? Sorry buddy but common courtesy means a whole lot more to me than $100. I don't need comforting either. I just want them to do their job well. This post isn't even supposed to be an effort to crap on e78. I will continue to buy stuff from them. I just think commerce and customer services have come far too long for us to not voice about issues like these.

Guess what: after years of complaints from US and Western buyers about poor customer services, the overwhelming majority of overseas merchants learned, and have stellar customer services now. Perhaps the rest of the world, and especially those in the badminton community get with the time? You don't need to be Amazon to be a business with great customer service. You bump someone's shoulder on the train, wouldn't you stop and say sorry instead of keep walking away? Don't be an apologist for those with poor business practices.

 

[Woesi]

As someone living in Germany (a country where the rights of the buyer are extremely important and guarantee is an important part of both online and physical purchases) I can completely understand your frustration.
I am also somewhat shocked by the reactions some of the other people have posted in this thread...

But then again: different cultures, different mentalities.

I don't know how Victor handles these cases in other countries but in my experience (experiences from club mates to be more precise) they seem to behave fair and accommodating towards the customer replacing defects on the rackets.

On the other side I have to agree with the statements about buying a product with known sinking problems from overseas with returns (which you probably expected when buying the rackets in the first place) being more problematic than for domestic purchases.
You could try contacting Victor US (or Victor HK?) and explaining the situation to them, this might lead to a solution...

 

[Thang Nghiem]

As someone living in Germany (a country where the rights of the buyer are extremely important and guarantee is an important part of both online and physical purchases) I can completely understand your frustration.
I am also somewhat shocked by the reactions some of the other people have posted in this thread...

But then again: different cultures, different mentalities.

I don't know how Victor handles these cases in other countries but in my experience (experiences from club mates to be more precise) they seem to behave fair and accommodating towards the customer replacing defects on the rackets.

On the other side I have to agree with the statements about buying a product with known sinking problems from overseas with returns (which you probably expected when buying the rackets in the first place) being more problematic than for domestic purchases.
You could try contacting Victor US (or Victor HK?) and explaining the situation to them, this might lead to a solution...

I very much considered the risk before buying. I’ve heard from here and elsewhere that Victor (and Yonex for that matter) tries their best to weasel out of racket warranty claims so I really don’t care about contacting them, especially when I didn’t go through the “proper channel” which is buying from authorized dealers in the US (who all want around $200 USD or more for a racket). My point wasn’t about looking for a solution for this racket, as I considered it a done deal, just tossing it in the trash. I just want sellers to have a better attitude about doing business and taking care of customers a bit better. Apparently some of the people here just want to roll over and accept it, or even be the business’s apologist,

 

[Budi]

But then again: different cultures, different mentalities.

this is what we all need to understand.
I agree, i want seller be more responsive, be more responsible to their stuff but as much as i hate to admit it, this is the reality of the world. Nothing is perfect & something we tought is right not always right in other eye. Again culture, mentallity, situation, & many more makes thing different. World are not just black or white, its full of color.