Fault receiver?

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by visor, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    I've never seen so many (3!) fault receiver calls by an umpire in a match, as in yesterday's SF of Hoon/Tan vs Cai/Chai at the Victor China Open yesterday.

    At 0:50 (after the 1st rally!), 13:46 and 33:20.

    Is the umpire correct in her calls?

    Imho, Hoon/Tan were just doing the split step and the feet haven't even come off the ground. :confused:

    What do you think?

    [video=youtube;VTp9xgaRz54]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTp9xgaRz54#t=50[/video]
     
    #1 visor, Nov 16, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  2. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Vid was removed :/
     
  3. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    3:46
    17:20
    39:00

    All 3 times on Hoon. Poor guy... he's already weight challenged, now he's not even allowed to split step... :p

    [video=youtube;XG_bdhGK0IM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG_bdhGK0IM&list=PLIxA99cXcK2EU7wZVRAl0N57 gRcTKxBrd[/video]
     
  4. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    [MENTION=37986]CantSmashThis[/MENTION] [MENTION=93307]|_Footwork_|[/MENTION]
     
  5. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    @craigandy

    OK, since you're on a roll there with my service thread... :p
    What do you make of this? :D
     
  6. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Ahh, Lynn is the umpire :p I would like to see what other members think before I put down my 2 cents
     
  7. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    I can't see anything wrong from the receiver
     
  8. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Oh right... she's from America, where you must know her. ;)

    Never before was I called on this until visiting another club by one particular player when he served. I don't know how he was able to tell my feet had shifted when he's supposed to be concentrating on his serve. :rolleyes:
     
  9. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    That's why I was wondering too. All he did was split step.
     
  10. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    346 service.PNG
    screen grab from the 3m46 one, way after the shuttle has been delivered. His right foot had stationary contact and his left foot he turned his heel on the spot. For this to happen the exact centre of the pivot of the heel is stationary on the ground so no fault even at this late stage.



    1720serve.PNG
    this is the 17m20 one. He rolled over towards his ankle as delivery happened. Some point must have stayed stationary again on the pivot so no fault

    Last one(39m) server is hiding the shuttle from our view completely so no way of telling. Although looks like he pulled his whole left foot back(no part of left remained stationary) in that one so depending on the timing of the delivery which we can't see maybe could be fault.(but I doubt it)
     
    #10 craigandy, Nov 18, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  11. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Just to cover my bases.. Of course we can't see if he is just outright standing on the service court boundary (white) line to receive. If he is doing that then fault receiver all 3.
     
  12. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    @craigandy @CantSmashThis

    Didn't realize there's a side view slow mo of the third one at 39:17.
    So obvious from that one that this ump has a different sense of time than normal people. :rolleyes:

    Call it once if you're unsure is ok, but to call it wrong three times is a little bit excessive...
    Fortunate it didn't cost the players the game...
     
    #12 visor, Nov 18, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  13. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Oh yeah just had a look at the slow mo. pause/play/pause/play back again:D definately no fault, at least one part of both feet remained stationary untill delivery was complete.

    Can't have been this Rule and he wasn't standing on the line...... Maybe he was pulling faces and shouting something??:D
     
  14. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Yeah, right?

    I wonder if the upcoming player challenge system can include umpire-called faults like this or like hitting over the net on a net kill... ;)
     
  15. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    There's a slomo on the second one,too.
    Imho, the calls are ridiculous.

    Rushing is of course a big concern in todays badminton, as the first 3 strokes are so important nowadays.
    But making such close (and imho bad!!) calls can't really be the solution...
     
  16. uselessmail

    uselessmail Regular Member

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    Can't the players complain about such downright stupid decisions to the referee? Even if its done after the match, is there any recourse for the players in such situations?
     
  17. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    One remark:
    If she thinks his move in these scenes is against the rules (which i don't think!), then she shall call him EVERY time, because he's doing the exact same thing at EVERY return...
     
  18. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Well, if you look closely that is not entirely true.
    In the first example he rotates his left foot on his heel during servers delivery.
    In the second example he roles over towards his ankle on the pad just below the small toe on the left foot
    In the last example he skids his whole foot flat backwards.
    Even in these 3 examples alone he does a different thing every time.
    Given that I think it is this left foot movement that I believe the umpire must be questioning.
     
  19. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    ok, i've gone through 2 and 3 again, in slomo, frame by frame.
    he always has some initial movement before the opponent's stroke, that's probably what she calls him for. but i don't believe it's against the rules. i think he leaves a part of his foot stationary in both scenes.
    anyway, we can watch 100 replays, she has to take a decision at real time. for her, it might look like a small step, therefore (contrary to my first opinion) i somehow understand her calls (though i still think they're not correct...).

    as a sidenote: how good would this guy be if he was in better shape...
     
  20. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    @CantSmashThis would be interesting to hear your 2 cents as an umpire, how you would have called this.

    Seems a bit strange that these calls were made, is there backroom disscusions between umpires/bwf (pre games) where reviews have been made which outlines things to watch out for with certain players who have been riding the line with rules previously?(maybe from payer complaints) Seems like they were trying to teach him a lesson or something.
     

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