Footwork to return a flat, straight lift.

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by DarkHiatus, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    This one sounds straightforward, but recently I've been struggling.

    The scenario is where both players are standing in a central base position, and my opponent hits it flat over my head (straight in the centre). It's hit with a low trajectory, but high enough that getting a downward angle with any sort of power is difficult as I find myself leaning backwards.

    On the backhand side and forehand side this isn't normally an issue as I feel I have the time to intercept it, but the straight lift leads to me leaning back, almost looking at the ceiling.

    The current footwork starts with my ready position with right foot ahead of left, shoulder width. I then pivot on my left foot to bring the right foot back, and then have to scissor backwards at this point or else I won't reach the shuttle in time.

    An alternative footwork I can imagine is to chasse back after the pivot, similar to the forehand corner footwork.

    Perhaps my initial pivot step needs to pull me further back? Currently i use it to set the direction before I make the next step, so it tends to be quite a small step.

    An example of one point is at 12:14 in the video. The example is slightly weak as normally the trouble shot is slightly lower than this one - in this example I could probably take 3 steps to get behind the shuttle better, but I was being lazy. Edit: I'm in yellow

     
    #1 DarkHiatus, Dec 8, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    you are the guy in black?

    If so,

    A) your crouch and split step isn't very active - need to get fast muscle fibres working
    B) Bring your right foot back - OK
    C) raise your racquet hand to prepare the racquet for the stroke - big issue with this. You raise it and the racquet stays in front of the body. It should be behind the shoulder and simultaneous as action B
    D) need to chasse backwards


    Besides the footwork, what happens is when a low fast lift comes at you, usually you don't have enough time to pull the racquet back further, and thus, when the racquet goes forward, you cannot to get the correct hitting point. With high clears, you feel more comfortable because there is more time on the shot to pull the racquet back and then make the forward stroke be it a clear, smash or drop.

    If you go to 13.34 for comparison, the shuttle makes a high arc and you have more time to make the smash. In fact, for that shot, it's very plain to see that when you move backwards, your racquet points to the floor as you go backwards.

    A person playing you just has to drop and play attacking clears and you will be under a lot of pressure.

    BTW, need better badminton shoes.
     
  3. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Ah, good point. I'm the Chinese guy in black/yellow. The attacking clears/drops is indeed quite effective against him, especially in his forehand corner! Lost this match though, I was focusing a bolt on footwork and my drops/smashes were too loose overall.
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Ok..I will look again when I get home. But do have a think about what I posted and see if you have the same issues. It is pretty common across many players.

    The other thing is if you can set the camera a bit higher for filming, it won't feel so difficult to watch.
     
  5. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Agreed on the above points - thanks for the feedback. I've been working on my racquet carriage quite a bit in conjunction with keepy left arm in a position that doesn't hinder me.

    As for the footage - this was his setup, but I should definitely take my own at a higher position.
     
    #5 DarkHiatus, Dec 8, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  6. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Hitting clears directly over your opponents head is quite a common tactic and presents a lot of problems for most players - especially against taller players who will really struggle (if you haven't tried it, then give it a go!).

    Playing a clear directly passing over the opponents head often leads to a shot that is taken 1. late and 2. slightly "cramped" for space.

    There are two things to consider here as Cheung has already said:
    1. Footwork
    2. Racket prep

    Lets discuss footwork:
    In my view, the turn you take when you pivot doesn't actually rotate far enough - I would want to see you turn your body even more so that your movement goes further towards the backhand corner. This will mean that you are not travelling in exactly the same direction as the shuttle, but it will get the shuttle more on the forehand side of you, rather than directly over your head. I think this will really help you as it makes the shots much more comfortable if you simply move out the way of the shuttle path, and then hit it slightly further to the side of you (which you already know is more comfortable!).

    That being said, the turn is a little bit slow. You could improve the footwork in one of two ways:
    1. rotate your body quickly (as described above) and then chasse quickly to get right behind the shuttle.
    2. rather than increasing the number of steps, increase the distance of the step and perform more of a standing shot than a full jumping scissor kick. Watch this video:

    And see how Tony Gunawan (in purple) move to his round the head corner but doesn't jump too much. In particular, watch the rally at 2:05 - tony serves and then moves round the head for a smash on the third shot. I think this movement pattern would serve you well - they key is not to jump too much which has the potential of ruining your balance. You can see him do this movement regularly through the video (he uses others patterns too when there is time!) including a great smash in the first rally.

    Racket prep:
    Your current "ready to hit" position doesn't really bring the racket up high enough as Cheung correctly pointed out. This will ultimately lead to a shot that is relatively slow to execute - meaning the swing gets too long and you are not able to take the shuttle as early as possible. I would advise you work on this "ready to hit" positioning with the racket higher so that your overhead swing becomes smaller. I am a great fan of Kowi Chandra's videos as they are so very simple! Take a look and see if you can copy him!


    Good luck! Please ask if you have questions!
     
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  7. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    Looking at the footage it's clear to me that you have much better technique than the guy in long jogging pants, and should be able to beat this guy no problem. Your main issue is unforced errors/simple mistakes.

    He is beating you because he is more consistent than you (probably because he has played longer than you but without proper coaching). He seems to play quite freely which also helps.

    I think if you stick to the first two rules of badminton (1. Over and 2. In) with every shot you play, you will beat this guy even without having to improve your technique at all. Obviously improving your technique will help you overall but I can't see any reason why you couldn't beat him.

    But going back to your original question, it seems you are not turning your body enough or fast enough. If you can turn well enough, and taking the other points above into consideration, you will be able to move back a lot quicker.
     
  8. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Ah, thanks for the perfect video as always. Of course I should've looked at some XD videos for some flat lifts!

    I found the rally at 4:10 quite useful - demonstrates that even on a relatively central clear that would've gone over Tony's head, he moved significantly into his backhand corner to give him more space. The rally you highlighted at 2:05 shows the same technique, but I wasn't sure because it's more clear a lift to the backhand corner - my footwork is more pronounced for that kind of flat lift and is closer to the footwork Tony does, perhaps because I feel like I have to cut it off, whereas for a straight lift over my head I feel like I'm already in a good position.

    I see what you mean by the more 'standing' rather than jumping motion. Gollum referred to it as almost gliding (for the forehand chasse jump), and I think I need to get in my head that i should be trying to get behind the shuttle, rather than getting over/on top of it.

    As I replied to Cheung, I'm working a lot on racquet carriage. My coach has been instructing me to keep my racquet higher and also more closer in as my elbow is quite far back, meaning that although I don't have a big back swing, it takes longer than I need to to actually get any shot. With a higher/more compact carriage I should be able to play jumpout smashes/drives more effectively.

    Thanks for the feedback. He's got a very unconventional style and I personally feel that he's probably at the peak of what he can do, even if he practises for 100s of hours. I've only recently started being coached, so I'm breaking down a few habits of my own - in this game I'm intentionally slowing down my recovery to get a solid split step, and trying to accelerate into my returns as previously I'd rush my recovery and be slow in retrieval. Hopefully, once I ingrain the right footwork patterns down and get used to where I want to be on the court for a shot, i should be able to just focus on accelerating off the split step, but right now it's a bit slow because I'm not sure where I want to be!
     
    #8 DarkHiatus, Dec 8, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
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  9. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    This is a very good observation - that rally shows, exactly as you said, how tony rotates into his backhand corner, even though the shuttle is coming directly over his head, and it means that the shot he plays is comfortably on the forehand. It also highlights how you can use the same footwork patterns to lots of different places - something I am a fan of as it keeps footwork so much simpler!

    Good luck!
     
  10. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Hi there DarkHiatus!

    What you want for this corner is called the 'Step out', which can then be turned into a 'China jump' if you find yourself with extra breathing room.

    What you're going to do is:
    1) Split step, bring your racket foot slightly back
    2) Shuffle/chasses turning your racket foot towards the corner
    3) Cross your non-racket foot behind your racket foot
    4) 'Step out' into the corner with your racket foot, toes still pointing towards that corner
    5) As you strike the shuttle, turn your racket foot towards your opinion, and shift your body weight as if you were doing a kick through

    Now the other option, when you have a bit of time to take the offensive, is to use a non-scissor jump where you focus more on body rotation than leg rotation/kicking through. This can usually be done just after your cross. You may have micro adjustments or small adjustment steps to line yourself up for this.

    Check out this video:


    The first segment is highly relevant to you.

    The step out footwork is defensive. If you covert it to a China jump, it can be offensive. You are much more likely to play a flat or slow drop, clear, or maybe even a drive from this position, you are unlikely to produce big smashes with this footwork.

    I almost forgot, essentially this behaves like a lunge where you turn your feet to face your opponents as you strike. Unlike a lunge, however, try to keep good body posture. Keep your back nice and tall, you don't want to be leaning down to take the shuttle from this position.
     
  11. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    See, this is the forehand side rear footwork which is the opposite of what Matt recommends, and is exactly the source of my troubles.

    I'm perfectly fine on my understanding of rear backhand corner and rear forehand corner, and all of the variations.

    My trouble is actually if they lift it flat directly over my head, to the middle rear of the court! There comes an assumption that if you can do the long diagonals, then the short straight should he easy, right? Wrong in my case - as Matt points out, I feel cramped.

    Matt's suggestion is I move further into my backhand side, such that I can contact the shuttle on my forehand, rather than over my head which makes sense.

    For me, a step out backwards is what I thought I should do before. But that leads to me being cramped as the shuttle will be taken over my head, and across my body, especially if I rotate lots to step out into my backhand corner with forehand footwork.

    I had a go at trying out Matt's suggestion yesterday, and it's definitely helping - by moving further away from the shuttle I'm less cramped, and pronate properly. If I'm too close, I end up flicking my wrist and getting poor power.

    The biggest difference I found was to really push off on the non racquet leg step as per Kowi Chandra's video to get behind the shuttle i.e. take bigger steps. Feels like a lot more initial effort, but the recovery is easier. Funny how lots of these bands habits just come from laziness :(
     
    #11 DarkHiatus, Dec 9, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  12. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Ok I'm sorry I misunderstood! I do still have an answer for you though! You'll notice this for pro players on the backhand side especially, so bear with me here.

    I agree that biasing yourself more towards the backhand side can help. I also agree that when it's straight over you, a step out is not the best choice of shots. You see it sometimes in doubles - but never really in singles. So why is this?

    The simple answer is, that we're taught almost exclusively to use chasses, cross steps, hitches, all of these pretty efficient moves for covering diagonals. What you actually want when it goes straight over your head really simple - running steps. Refrain from leaning back when you take backwards running steps. Make the running steps quite short, you don't want to feel like you're stretching. If you make the steps too long, you'll be too slow, and because you're going in relatively blind, you are more likely to create timing window errors by either not taking enough steps quickly enough or by moving too far.

    I'm gonna take a hunt for it, but this is notably used by Kento Momota when he's pushed onto his backhand side at the net, and then the backhand rear court. Rather than chasseing he prefers to run back. You sometimes see similar moves from Lin Dan.

    When you're covering long corners it's very efficient to use your crosses, chasses, hitches, and jumps, but moving directly backwards is almost always easier with running steps.

    Of course, this depends on the quality of the lift. Sometimes you'll need to do a jump backwards to just catch it and repel it back with a clear if it's particularly high quality (like just above your racket reach quality). But in general, this should work for covering directly behind you.
     
  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    OK, I had a look again. You serve and then move to the slight round the head shot.

    The racquet arms needs to go back more.
    You need the flying step '飛步' when your right leg goes back.

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...tice-footwork-but-how-to-apply-it.8685/page-1

    (oh man, I wrote that 13 years ago!)
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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  15. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I'd like to see a better example of where you have the problem. Asides from the footwork issue, I suspect your choice of shot may not be the optimal one. Rather than going for power, go for a clip down shot/stick smash where steepness is proritised.
     
  16. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Two examples, one including the chasse, and one including running steps from KM.
     
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  17. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Good examples - I find myself using running steps in these kind of situations too. It is especially notable for most mens singles players who run to the back of the court having played a net shot to go back and execute a jump smash.
     
  18. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    I've seen the variations before, but the pros don't tend to play low lifts to the centre. The typical scenarios I found are when Wei Nan is moving from backhand net to backhand rear, and he takes running steps, whilst committing himself to contact the shot in a very round the head manner. The other scenario is forehand net to backhand corner.

    I find the Momota example of running steps not so useful as it's a high lift - these I am fine with taking the 3 running steps back instead of chasseing. Useful videos linked though, as the example of chasses step + jump out/step out is clearly on his forehand side (not going over his head) when he chooses to do this, even if he's moving relatively straight bakwards.

    It confirms that on a shot going directly over my head, I need to be doing some backhand corner footwork.

    The flying step is exactly what I gleaned from the Kowi Chandra video Matt linked. I tried it out yesterday, and found myself much more behind the shuttle, able to play with more options. I thought this would mean I'd be pushing all my momentum backward, and I am, but the scissor converts it into moving forward for recovery. What I was doing before meant all my backward momentum went into my left leg after scissoring, anchoring me for a slow recovery and also meaning less forward momentum for the stroke itself.

    Shot choice...yes, I probably shouldn't be forcing a smash when the shuttle is on top of me, but the cramped shot made me feel that something else was off - why should I be limited in my shot selection on a flat lift directly over my head? If I have the smash option on my backhand and forehand corner, then I thought there must be something wrong on my straight backward movement.

    I think my take away is that I need to incorporate the flying step, and rotate more so I take it over my forehand side rather than over my head.
     
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  19. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    For sure, as I said in my earlier post, if you try and chasse back because you're almost blind to where the shuttle is it's very difficult to get yourself in the correct position. Using a lot of steps, backwards smaller, faster steps, lets you be a little more precise. This kind of movement would be exhausting and ineffective for the whole court, but it's good for this situation.
     
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