Gideon Marcus Fernaldi / Kevin Sanjaya Sukamuljo

rhoder said:
Marcus is a real weird one. Had nothing to do so watched back the 2016-2017 matches. It’s really like day and night the difference, he actually had respectable net skills and was fast back then. And he could live with Kevin’s pace back then. Jeez idk what happened but that decline in 2018 was huge and sudden. Nowadays he’s static at the net, and physically not in that good a shape anymore. Why did you think the decline happen so quickly? Now he has to relearn his net skills which he possessed last time, that’s bizzare
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That is indeed a mystery. It baffled me too. The only reason/cause I could guess was that wedding break after AE 2018, which was quite ridiculous to think because it was only a month. How could someone lose it all after a month break.. I have no idea.
He is well known to be very hardworking and never skip any training from what I heard ( he even trained more). But it might have changed his training program since he got married and then having a baby?
 
Well in other sports, the few players who are able to sustain a longer career than the expected average year are usually the taller and stronger athletes. It's not uncommon to see shorter athletes phase out of their primes within a span of months, you see this usually in basketball and football. I think it has to do with the fact that shorter athletes rely more on explosiveness more than the taller ones, and once you hit a certain age and lose even half a step, it hurts them a lot more than some taller dudes like Hendra or Zhang Nan. Losing half a step doesn't mean much for these guys in comparison, since they require less strides to move the same distance as someone like Gideon or Sukamuljo
 
yuquall said:
That is indeed a mystery. It baffled me too. The only reason/cause I could guess was that wedding break after AE 2018, which was quite ridiculous to think because it was only a month. How could someone lose it all after a month break.. I have no idea.
He is well known to be very hardworking and never skip any training from what I heard ( he even trained more). But it might have changed his training program since he got married and then having a baby?
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I feel like he lost it physically in the middle of Dubai 2017 and AE18. At AE18 I could see his smashes getting flatter and losing a bit of sting, and him jumping less high for his smashes. But it was still good enough to plow through their opponents at that time. Over 2018, opponents started dealing with their slower pace (compared to 2017) and Marcus started losing confidence and being less willing to take risks.
 
rhoder said:
I feel like he lost it physically in the middle of Dubai 2017 and AE18. At AE18 I could see his smashes getting flatter and losing a bit of sting, and him jumping less high for his smashes. But it was still good enough to plow through their opponents at that time. Over 2018, opponents started dealing with their slower pace (compared to 2017) and Marcus started losing confidence and being less willing to take risks.
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Yes the neck injury he sustained in Dubai 2017 probably had something to do with his weaker smashes too beside that it was a slow hall there. Since then, his struggle in slow halls had become so apparent.

I could see he was still being proactive and willing to take a bit of risk during FO 2018 but becoming less and less so after their loss in the final. Especially in G3 final, he couldn't keep up with the pace of the match any longer.
Ever since, he had adopted his much less positive attitude playing in slow halls in particular to the point that he became too frustrated by himself and it affected all other aspects of his game.
 
ChocoChipWaffle said:
And Sukamuljo is a much better player now than compared to 2017, so any dip in Gideon's form is sort of equalized
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You think so? Sukamuljo became a better all rounder I agree, but back in 2017 no one could match him on speed, and he’s now forced to slow down his pace a little if not Gideon can’t catch up. A dip in Gideon relative to Sukamuljo means that opponents can now target Gideon indiscriminately, not a good thing for a partnership... one needs to have similar capabilities for both players, you can’t really say one player’s improvement “balances” another’s weaknesses. There’s a reason why their dominance has dropped, in terms of the way they’re winning their matches, being challenged a lot more while back in 17 they were just steamrolling everybody. But still credit to them to be able to capture as many titles as they did last year.
 
I mean even now, nobody can really match his speed other than watanabe, so that hasn't really changed. But his flat game has gotten much more solid, and he has a lot more range to his backcourt play
 
In other words, Kevin being a much better player now, if Marcus could regain what he had lost (just what he has displayed in AE final), they could raise back to the top?
Just when I thought things are getting more exciting, and now we are in a very long vacuum.:(

I wonder if they keep on their training nowadays. Is there any lock down in Indonesia?
 
Six Best Men's Doubles of All Time According To Herry Iman Pierngadi

JawaPos.com-Undoubtedly, Herry Iman Pierngadi is one of the best and biggest men's doubles coaches in the world today. Since 1993 (had briefly left the national training camp in 2008-2011), Herry gave birth to a lot of elite men's doubles and took turns conquering the world's biggest tournaments.

To Javanese journalist Ainur Rohman, Herry chose the six biggest men's doubles of all time according to his version. Five are from Indonesia, while one is a Chinese pair.

Below are the six pairs. The order of mention of these pairs is not based on the best ranking in the version. But, it is done randomly.

1. Marcus Fernaldi Gideon / Kevin Sanjaya Sukamuljo

(Phenomenal achievement: Holders of the world's longest number one record in world men's doubles history. Record holder of the most men's doubles title for BWF World Tour in a season. Back-to-back champions of All England 2017 and 2018).

Of course Gideon / Kevin will be on my list. For me, besides their good performance, Gideon / Kevin is a phenomenal pair. Especially in the past two years. They are very stable.

Moreover, Kevin has skills above average. What I like about Gideon / Kevin is their different and unique ways to play. They have the speed, the anticipation is good, and certainly their abilities are above the average of other men's doubles in the world today.

In addition, Gideon / Kevin plays very attractive. They also have a lot of fans right?

2. Hendra Setiawan / Mohammad Ahsan

(2013, 2015, 2019 world champion. Hendra himself was a 2007 world champion and 2008 Beijing Olympics gold medalist with Markis Kido).

What is special about Hendra / Ahsan now is their calmness. In the past, they were fast too. But now, their advantage is their calmness. And another one is their rotation. Hendra and Ahsan's rotation for me is very good. Hendra can play equally well from either position. same thing with Ahsan.

Besides, their shot quality are good. The accuracy is also good. And what is also special is their mentality, which is quite strong. That's probably because they are a senior and experienced pair.

3. Ricky Subagja / Rexy Mainaky

(1996 Atlanta Atlanta Olympic Gold, 1995 world champion, 1993 World Cup champion, 1995, 1997).

To me, they are a phenomenal, extraordinary and revolutionary couple. Good playing style. Attack and have power. But the most important of Ricky / Rexy in my opinion, they are the foundation of modern men's doubles in the history of Indonesian badminton.

After Eddy Hartono / Rudy Gunawan, Ricky / Rexy is not only important in the context of changing world men's doubles. However, they also changed people's views about men's doubles.

In the past, men's doubles played more defense, waited, and then attacked. While Ricky / Rexy continues to attack. In addition, Ricky / Rexy can shift the perspective of many people.

In the past, those idols were always single players. There is a stigma that double is under single category. That was indeed the case among the teenage players at the club. There is no feeling (young players) who immediately want to become a double player. All want single. And double, only the second option.

Well, this Ricky / Rexy phenomenon is changing the views of Indonesians about men's doubles. Many young players then became interested in becoming a double player.

4. Cai Yun / Fu Haifeng

(Gold 2012 London Olympics, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011 world champions)

I really like the way Cai Yun / Fu Haifeng play. They play an attacking style. And they are indeed phenomenal. Both the game and achievement.

Attacking style suits me well. Because my training method is to attack.

In this world, almost all champions (men's doubles) big events are attacking players. The types of defending in men's doubles are rarely able to perform very high. For example there is now (Hiroyuki) Endo / (Yuta) Watanabe who likes to play defense. However, I don't think they will last long.

5. Candra Wijaya / Tony Gunawan

(2000 Sydney Olympic Gold, 1999 All England Champion)

The first reason why Candra / Tony is on the best version of my version is their type of play is attack. In addition, their mental quality is indeed extraordinary. There is no word of surrender in their thinking. There is no fear. There is no panic.

Probably the only one who was somewhat panicked during the Sydney 2000 Olympics. At that time in the semifinals and finals, they defeated two strong South Korean doubles (defeating Kim Dong-moon / Ha Tae-kwon in the semifinals and Lee Dong-soo / Yoo Yong-sung in the final, Red).

In fact, previously in All England 2000, Candra / Tony lost in the semifinals. Then the All England final at that time was an all Korean match (Kim Dong-moon / Ha Tae-kwon defeated Lee Dong-soo / Yoo Yong-sung). But in the Olympics, Candra / Tony can beat the two Koreas to win the gold medal.

6. Candra Wijaya / Sigit Budiarto

(1997 World Champion, 2003 All England Champion)

This Candra / Sigit is interesting to me because they are a pair with two very different characters. However, they can be one. Candra is an ambitious, passionate and fiery player. While Sigit is a rather slow and calm player.

Candra's type is similar to Gideon / Kevin now.

They can unite because of good communication and approach from the coach team. Because not infrequently, they have differences of opinion when competing.

In terms of playing, Sigit is very complete. can attack, can defense. This Candra doesn't want defense. Just keep attacking! Ha ha ha..

What is also interesting, I think Kevin is now a combination of three players namely Candra, Tony, and Sigit. Candra has a few elements, a little Tony, and a little Sigit. Everything is in Kevin.

In essence, for me Candra / Sigit is a complete pair. Candra is passionate and doesn't want to lose. While Sigit has skills and techniques that are above average.

Source: https://www.jawapos.com/sports/08/0...ik-sepanjang-masa-versi-herry-iman-pierngadi/
 
“For example there is now (Hiroyuki) Endo / (Yuta) Watanabe who likes to play defense. However, I don't think they will last long.”

Ouch, wonder if he thinks so due to them intrinsically being a defensive pair? Or because Endo is being old?
 
What he means is defensive pair cannot win title regularly..

EndoW is good but playing defensive there is highly likely of bad day more than not.. Their path to the AE Final is easy. They lost GuangZhou Final.. & in HK whom did they lost to was it ChoiSeo after beating Minions..

There was high chance they will have win FranceOpen but got outplayed by ShettyRR.

Its easy to see some1 imperfection but i dont think Gideon has reduced. Badminton is a tournament to tournament process.. The reasons they are winning titles are because consistency.
 
rhoder said:
“For example there is now (Hiroyuki) Endo / (Yuta) Watanabe who likes to play defense. However, I don't think they will last long.”

Ouch, wonder if he thinks so due to them intrinsically being a defensive pair? Or because Endo is being old?
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They are alrounders but their defense is more dominant in their play.
But after seeing their dominance against kevin/ marcus, I could say that they will win more titles in the near future.
They won their last 6 meetings . This itself proves their superiority.
 
They need to find a younger, preferably back court doubles partner for watanabe after endo decides to call it a career, which I assume might be coming in a couple years? Endo's focus always comes and goes, very talented player, but not the type of player who can win tournament after tournament with consistency.
 
Baddyforall said:
They are alrounders but their defense is more dominant in their play.
But after seeing their dominance against kevin/ marcus, I could say that they will win more titles in the near future.
They won their last 6 meetings . This itself proves their superiority.
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Just being dominant against one certain pair/player means one is superior to everyone else? Yes they had constantly defeated minions in their last 6 meetings but I don't remember they won any title beside AE. They are in most advantage when they play in slow halls with almost no drift with their defensive play especially against the shorter pairs who can't attack in steeper angles. That's why their defensive play is so effective to use against minions because Marcus can't get the angle with his attacks from the back. His smashes are too easy to return and to counter attack.
 
INA team will begin an isolated training program next week for about 2 months focused on physical training. Then they will begin a more intensive one in June to prepare for the tournaments in August when resumed. I suppose they have TUC in their mind.
All members will be staying in the camp for the whole time during the sessions for better management and control against the virus pandemic. No players will be allowed to go home to their residence.
 
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