Help with Stroke Please!!

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Mason, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I would advise concentrating on the hip and Kinetic chain. Your friend is well intentioned but if you haven't got the hip better, it will look difficult to get more relaxed.

    Throwing tennis balls or shuttlecocks against the wall might be able to help train your hip and Kinetic chain better. If you always have a racquet in your hand with practice swings, there might be too many things going on to really concentrate on the hip movement.
     
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  2. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Good idea !!
     
  3. rulebavaria

    rulebavaria Regular Member

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    The player in the video keeps his upper body straight and core tight even while following through properly. In your video you are completely out of balance after each stroke. In a game situation this would be a huge disadvantage since you wouldn't have time to get ready for the next shot (provided the opponent's shot is half-decent). Following through properly is indeed important, but keeping your balance at all times is at least just as important. In addition to the advice you already got from @Cheung and @speCulatius maybe you should try to focus on technique rather than strength while smashing. 80% or half-smashes are often better than full-power smashes anyway and it would help you improve your technique.
     
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  4. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I 100% agree with your post. I have so many things to try to remember while I practice that I end up not doing them all properly. I have to go back to working on one or two things at a time. So I’ll still work on my scissor jump with a focus on hips moving first and then a relaxed swing
     
  5. magnusce

    magnusce Regular Member

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    it sounds like you are on the right track, but i would still suggest learing to smash (or clear) without scissor jump or foot movement, but focus on the hip and upper body and get the feeling of power coming from the kinetic chain.

    like the drop training video you uploaded, but without the movement forward but just have somebody feed shuttles to you standing at the rear court ready for the shuttle

    you know the saying, you have to learn to walk before you start to run.

    learn the basics, start without using a racket like @Cheung suggested with throwing shuttles
    i would suggest not scissor jumping or jumping in general, as it much harder to control the body, and when landing you come out of balance
     
  6. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Yes I have practiced that many times ( standing clears smashes and drops) and I feel like I do them with the proper kinetic chain. everything falls apart once I add in footwork which is why I am working on that now
     
  7. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    You approach it from the wrong side. Footwork is the foundation.

    Here's a little test: kneel down at the backline, somewhat sideway to the net. Let someone else feed you some shuttle and try to play a clear. Where will the shuttle land, how much power do you need. Compare this to a standing/moving clear. The lower body adds a lot of power to your shots, even if it is not obviously at first.

    See it as a pure movement pattern you need to practise.
    Split step -> step backward -> scissor -> step forward -> split step.
    It is crucial, that you minimize or better remove the break after the scissor. The scissor redirects the movement of your body and you will need some energy to do this. If you can't utilize this energy to move forward in a fluid motion, you can't use it either to increase the power in your smash.

    My personal rating of a succesful scissor is:

    bad: You are not able to stop the backward motion, even after you execute the scissor, you still need a little hop backward to stabilise (deadly in singles). You need additional energy to neutralize useful energy.

    neutral: You do a scissor, but you are not able to utilize its power. It is like jumping in the air and rotating your hip.

    good: The energy you generate by pushing your legs into the ground is transfered to hip->core->shoulder->arm. You are able to use the energy by "throwing" your shoulder/arm forward to initiate your forward movement. It help to let your body fall a little bit forward and drop it into a crouchlike forward movement to preload your leg muscle, much like a directed split step or a sprinter's start motion, to quickly move back to your base position.
    Later on a portion of this energy flow will be channeled off into your smash/clear.
     
    #627 Ballschubser, Aug 9, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  8. Obito

    Obito Regular Member

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    trying to understand all the fundamental such as how to generate power into shot and etc. You add too much unnecessary follow through into your shot. Work on your footwork more. With your built and experience try to hit the clear with just grip tightening without no arm swing. You would be surprised that you could play forehand clear easily [ keep in mind that you are in the right position and try it ]. Now what you been doing is like trying to hit the bird and perform a follow through forcely. Keep in mind stay relax not too stiff and compact. Also, quit trying to jump for now. Most of your shot you tend to jump backward and switch your leg in the air hitting while your momentum traveling backward. Keep in mind that jumping smash is jumping off two feet slightly toward and hit the bird while your momentum going to the frontward not back. If I were you, I will try to get a hang of basic shot on ground first because you may get injure soon.

    Trying to move around the court with correct footwork will step up your game a lot. Try adding rope skipping into your practice. It would help you to be less stiff.
     
    #628 Obito, Aug 9, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  9. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    So this is exactly what I have been TRYING to do. I would say based on your three levels here I mostly am in the “neutral” category. Sometimes I feel like might be In the “good” category On a handful of shots throughout a night of me playing and also in the “bad” on some shots. I have been working on my footwork doing 4 corner drills. I doing a good amount of random shadow drills. The hardest part is , like I’ve mentioned in the last is trying to improve without a coach so the progress is super slow and it’s not in real time. So I only work on 1 - 2 things at most when I practice and then hope that a percentage of what I work on gets implemented in my games. I generally notice progress each week. Yes the progress is small but the reason I record and post my games and shots is so that I can look back 1 month, 2 months or however long and see that yes I’ve made some progress.

    I am also a very competitive player by nature so when I’m in a game i tend to play at 100% intensity. But I also realize when I do that, my form and technique is sacrificed. Hence why you see me jumping when perhaps I shouldn’t be or not being as relaxed as I should be. So I am trying to continue to improve but also in the end trying to have fun as this is recreational for me. My goal will be to have a decent enough muscle memory in my footwork and my stroke so that when I do play a game, I can utilize the proper form at full intensity. I know that I am not there yet but I keep trying to get better and improving.

    So because I can only work on one thing , I’ll still be working mostly on my scissor jump as my main focus. It appears from the video that I am still not far enough behind the shuttle when I scissor so I will try to do that which I hope helps transfer the power from the ground to the shuttle. If you have any practical suggestions/tips or cues that can help with this immediate goal, those seem to be the most helpful. The principles of what most of you talk about is understand, but how to implement them , that’s another story. So the more simple and practical the suggestion, the better I can try to focus.

    Thanks again for everyone’s feedback !
     
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  10. Obito

    Obito Regular Member

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    I totally understand you, but If I pointed out point by point would you be able to sacrifice for it or not. Some coach may suggest you to even change your hand from using right to left to wipe out all of the bad habit. Like you said you like to give it all 100% in games even though it slows down your progression. The more you play, the slower and harder for you to improve because your muscle keeps getting used to to the bad habits.

    1. Would you be able to stop playing for a month? just show up at the court and train on your footwork without racket. For example, there are few type of footwork. Pick the one that easy to you first after that you could try another type. Mine is simply slide. Lets say you try to move from centre to forehand corner at the net. I do spilt step then right >drag left > right then hit. If I wanna go back to forehand back corner, I just do split step right >drag left> right
    2. When you get a hang of it, grab your racket then train on your footwork with it. Keep in mind your ready to hit position need to be behind the shuttle. Now you when you try to hit a forehand clear, you play it too late. You need to be ready before the shuttle drop and hit just like you already standing there and wait for it.
    3. Try throwing shuttles by hand to get a hang of how to move each part of your body coordinately.
    4. Get used to with shuttle by bouncing it on your racket on forehand side and backhand side or even try to pick up a shuttle using racket.
    5. Get into a game and forget about the point. Try to play each shot correctly [ you will lose a lot at this point, but trust me it will get better eventually] but this part is quite hard for you because you need to play with the other threes with proper technique. If you insists to play with beginners, most of the shot that return to you would be low quality and it will be hard for you to execute basic shot such as smash cuz most of the lift might be too low for smashing.
    Meanwhile, do rope skipping a lot. I mean a really lot. You need to bounce around a court like it is a trampoline.

    For example, before trying to jump smash or add any fancy shot. Try to play like these guys first. They play pretty causal. They are no where close to your physique. They are older. You are built with muscle. Look at how they play each shot. They barely generate any kinetic chain especially the old guys, but they can move around to each shot smoothly because they got footwork and they have good shot placement.

     
    #630 Obito, Aug 9, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    A good video just out today.

    I would also add that you should concentrate on getting a clean effortless technique first at 70% power at a standing smash (no scissor kick) before trying to hit hard at 100%, otherwise you'll incorporate wrong habits unintentionally.

    Additionally I would recommend making use of your non racket arm to rotate your chest more.

    And also using more finger power when you want to hit harder. My cue for finger power is to lead the stroke with the butt of the racket for that 1-2 ft around your head while allowing some space to develop between the racket and your hypothenar palm muscles. Then as you're about to extend your arm into the shot, you want to quickly tighten your grip during your pronation into the strike. The feeling you want is a sudden acceleration/whip of the racket head from behind you into the shot.

    Practice this at 70% power until you can get the sequence and timing effortless, then increase gradually with repetition to 100%. But always back down the power if you don't feel right because the kinetic chain cannot be forced.



    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
    #631 visor, Aug 12, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  12. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I did a hundred garage swings today. Also because there was no wind at all, I threw some shuttles in the air and practiced that way. Some were better than others.
     
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  13. Obito

    Obito Regular Member

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    looking good
     
  14. SimonCarter

    SimonCarter Regular Member

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    Looking better
    What I would like to see is you getting perfectly balanced at the end of each stroke.
    A lot of time you look like you have all your weight on one leg only at the end of the stroke. This should be avoided.
    It feels like you are missing the 'step' through it would be better if your weight is more on the right leg at the end. You don't need to overdo it. A step is enough. What you do at 1.24 is good. At 1.31 your weight stays on the left leg.

    Aside that point you stroke looks good I feel like the main thing is balance now.
     
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  15. magnusce

    magnusce Regular Member

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    good to see you practicing like this, good job!

    but like simon carter says, your "problem" lies in your footwork/balance,
    like ive said before, the power in a stroke truly comes from the footwork and hip.
    again fixing this is hard, while trying to strike a shuttle,

    take a look at this video:

    @23:22 (i know its a clear shot, but its still the same footwork concept)

    he might be over exaggerating it a little bit, but it shows the concept well, notice how he "preload" hes body before striking.

    he has all hes body weight on hes right foot pointing outwards, hes body is completely sideways to the net, the shuttle comes and he bends down in hes right knee and then he really push off the ground with hes right leg and throws his hip forward, and the rest of the upper body follows along and he makes hes arm swing, using the whole body and kinetic chain as the power source.

    the push off with the right foot is really key, and i feel that might be what your missing,
    make sure you got all your balance on the right leg, and then bend down in your right leg as you "preload" the shot, push off hard and throw your hip foward, land on your left leg and step forward with the right leg going forward,

    i would like to see you make a video of you trying to add just a little movement like the guy in this video, without trying to hit a shuttle but just swinging the air, try and do it continuously with a rhythm and flow. dont worry its really hard in the beginning and its hard to keep it going, especially when focusing on so many things.
    start out slowly one step at a time

    but there was alot of good things in the video you posted, i could see the hip movement was correct on many of them. keep it up! ;)
     
  16. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    I need to see more left arm motion to initiate trunk rotation to throw the right shoulder forward. This will automatically help to step through and transfer your weight forward at strike.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I attempted to do what you said here( see 1:42-2:15 of the video below)

    Along with that I did some other rear court footwork drills for around 10 minutes today. Tomorrow I’ll go to the club early and do some more footwork and also some training with a partner with shuttles
    I clearly have not been doing enough footwork training over the last Month or so because I regressed a bit. My forehand side chasse steps are too quick ( I think )
    I seemed to improve a bit as I got more reps in. Either way I’ve got a lot of work to do and I’m hoping that I continue to make consistent progress. I can’t expect great progress without a coach but I’ll keep working at it
    :confused:
     
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    You're still practicing bad habits in that footwork video. You *HAVE* to rotate your trunk, starting with the right shoulder at the back rotating at least 90° to the front just before strike. Get this part right please!!

    Edit: ok I see that you corrected this later in video. But your left arm needs to lead the trunk rotation to make that rotation effective in the kinetic chain. Otherwise it's just wasted energy...

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  19. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Ok can you show me an example of the left arm leading the rotation ? I’m not 100% sure I know what you mean
     
  20. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
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