Help with Stroke Please!!

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Mason, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    Germany
    I think, that your partner should slow down the pace of the execise. There's not a lot of time for recovery and you are just pressed on to hurry to the next shuttle. You're not even allowed to leave the front court most of the time.

    If you want to focus on technique first a slower pace would be beneficial, e.g. the pace in this video, maybe even slower if you need to cover the whole front court.

     
    Cheung likes this.
  2. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    Here i have been doing the last 6 weeks for my weight training. I’ve had to cut my volume down considerably because of badminton. My goal is to maintain overall strength with compound movements and also improve on my weighted carries the weighted carries will aid in strengthening my core and grip which should keep my shoulders , elbow and lower back healthy
     
    ralphz likes this.
  3. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    One if my doubles games from sat
    Any suggestions would be appreciated.
     
  4. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    Germany
    Looks good sofar, I think, that you need stronger opponents who are able to put you under pressure. Once you get under more pressure your weak spots will be revealed.
     
  5. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    the opponents are both better than me......
     
  6. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    Germany
    That might be true, but your partner counterbalanced it. He has a lot of potential, thought he looked bored later on and clearly started to play more careless. A good partner conceals your weak spots.

    When I play singles my game range from "wow, I'm in total control of the rallies (vs weak opponent)" to "what the heck is going on, completely hecktic, chaotic, headless running around the court hitting bad shots all the time (vs strong opponent)". When I watch these games, I can clearly see, that the opponents often do not make direct points (they have mercy;)), but the increased pressure let me make a lot more misstakes. A good opponent will search for your weak spots and he will exploit them.

    If you want to improve, you need to look for these weak spots and learn to improve them.
     
    #746 Ballschubser, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  7. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    114
    Location:
    london
    I'm no expert.. but..

    So you're the white shorts ..

    Your partner, mr blue shorts, when in the front position creeps back and is too near you and not positioned well for covering the front area. You're doing quite well at the back under circumstances.like this image (partner too far back). I'd be wary my partner would suddenly come back when he shouldn't and i'd be put off by my partner being out of position. A player that is good at the net helps the player at the back to look play goods shots. Your partner Mr blue shorts is quite quick.

    [​IMG]

    Also I don't see any net shots by any player here.

    And your partner is probably positioned wrongly when you return serve, ... so if you were to play a net shot for your return of serve then he's not behind you ready for if they lift it.

    I have heard different things regarding how far back the partner should be when you receive serve, but I think maybe(and perhaps others can confirm, as i'm not sure), your partner is too far forward here so you wouldn't gain much from a net shot, Though nobody in this game does net shots! But if you did one as your return serve, and they lifted it then you wouldn't get much advantage from it and you may even be disadvantaged by it, because your partner is so far forward.

    Most people i've spoken to have said that when receiving serve, the partner should be behind you and near the centre line. I have seen some people look somewhere in between that and side by side. But I haven't spoken a lot with people that do this so I don't really know what their thinking or footwork would be. Or if they're right in any way to do that. I don't know exactly how/if that changes depending on how far back the receiver is from the service line.. I have watched some more doubles videos and it definitely looks wrong where your partner is.

    [​IMG]

    Also at 3:29, and other times, I notice that when you receive serve from the right hand side, then every time you hit it to your left. That might be because every time on that side you are using a forehand grip (though i'm not great at spotting grips from a distance).. Whereas if when there you had a backhand grip on that side then it'd be easier to hit it more to the right where the server isn't.or to lift it to their backhand side. But you are still catching them very well with it.


    Look where you are standing when your partner is receiving serve, I think that is where you are meant to be. That's where most people i've spoken to have said one should be when partner is receiving serve.

    I went to one club and a guy there invited me to play with some of his friends. Of the 8 there only 1 knew to stand there!

    [​IMG]

    I wish more players at clubs were more like you and understood positioning like you do. But since you understand positioning maybe you should tell your partner what he's meant to be doing re basic positioning.'cos you know and he doesn't. Have you had a coach show you positions and he hasn't? He is quite nifty with his racket so maybe he has had some coaching but has he done more singles or at least not been coached doubles?

    I know some people have natural talent and pick things up maybe those guys are the ones that have no clue re doubles positioning?

    And I think a partner's positioning matters , partly because it affects what shots you can play.
     
    Ballschubser likes this.
  8. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    Germany
    I think, that standing near the center position when your partner received the shuttle, only works, if you pay enough attention to the serve. Most of the players in my club stand close to the center, but when my opponent play a quick flick or drive serve along the center line, I got really irritated by my partner standing so close to where I need to take the serve. When I see this position I often try to play a quick drive serve along the center line too.

    I think, that the defensive position is more beginner friendly or for double pairs who don't play together very often, the attack position is more advanced.
     
    #748 Ballschubser, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
    DarkHiatus likes this.
  9. rulebavaria

    rulebavaria Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    Germany
    At my club the "quick drive serve along the center line" you're referring to is considered very rude and frowned upon during training and social games. If we're caught doing these serves by the coach we're in for a good scolding. :confused:
     
  10. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    Germany
    Very interesting, because I think, that they are really annoying myself. Still I have been confronted with this kind of serve serveral times. There are several other kind of service types which are kind of annoying, so is there some kind of service etiquette ?
     
  11. rulebavaria

    rulebavaria Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    Germany
    I don't think there is some kind of service etiquette when it comes to competitive games and probably not even for social clubs in many games. Still, even in competitive games I have seen players get angry when the opponent uses these fast flat serves directet at the body of the receiver.

    I think our coach's logic is that we should train to perfect the "regular" serves (short serves, flick serves) first before trying anything fancy. The point of the training games being to improve our basic shots and tactics and not to score a point as fast as we can.
     
  12. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    767
    Location:
    'round here....
    I strongly disagree. While "Mr. Blue Shorts" looks too relaxed to be ready for any shot, his positioning is good. That's where he should stand awaiting his partner's strong smash and, considering they're playing with plastics, even for a mediocre smash.
     
  13. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    2,514
    Location:
    Germany
    Just to make sure - is it common understanding, that this is ideed the correct and optimal positioning when Mr. Blueshorts is receiving the serve?
     
    #753 s_mair, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  14. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    What do you mean “playing with plastics” ?
     
  15. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    When I watch most professionals play, they are standing behind their partner who is receiving the serve which seems to be a very “balanced “ formation. So I then in turn try to imitate the professionals formation. Most people in my club just stand side by side when their partner is receiving a serve which seems to be wrong and puts them out of position for the 4th shot.
     
    ralphz likes this.
  16. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    114
    Location:
    london
    From the short service line to the long service line is 388cm

    [​IMG]


    Here is where Peter Gade is standing (approximately)
    And one area where I haven't got it quite right is I haven't taken into account the length of his foot but it's approximate. You can see it's nowhere near the middle of the 388cm. He is not standing 388/2=194cm back! The front of his foot is less than 100cm back from the short service line.

    [​IMG]


    Mr Blue Shorts is standing closer to half of the 388cm distance.

    upload_2019-9-19_16-1-59.png


    Mr Blue shorts should be further forward. Like Peter Gade is.

    And notice where Mason/white shorts stands.when the opponents lift the shuttle to the back. Mason/white shorts, gets it right.

    [​IMG]

    I may be wrong but those are my calculations, you can probably do better, but unless you can show where i'm wrong, it looks like Mr Blue shorts is way too far back when at the front. You can use Peter Gade as the example for where is right.
     
  17. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    114
    Location:
    london
    I don't think where he stands should be used as an example of optimal..Also for where a person stands to receive serve, it's individual

    The pro men stand with the front of their foot on(touching or as close to touching as possible, i'm not sure, but one of those two - not sure if foot touching/on it is legal or illegal?), the short service line. So a pro would stand further forward than mr blue shorts. But Pros react and move very fast.

    Blue shorts doesn't tend to look that prepared, but he moves pretty fast sometimes.. Some people would have to be a bit further back than he is. With some practise maybe he could return serves well standing from there.

    Professional men are further forward than he is. That would be optimal..but one needs to be able to react very fast to do that.

    Also blue shorts doesn't move back well when returning serve As I understand it, if they flick serve you then you shouldn't need to take it on the backhand.

    Assuming you can move well and react fast, then you should stand where the pros do. But you won't be reacting fast enough and moving well enough to stand where pros do if you are asking where to stand when receiving serve!
     
    #757 ralphz, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  18. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    2,514
    Location:
    Germany
    I didn't mean Mr. Blueshorts himself, but the position of @Mason while his partner was receiving the serve.
     
  19. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    The guy in the blue shorts is a young kid only 18 or 19 years old. He has been trained as a Jr at an international level and has moved to Buffalo NY for collage so is no longer being coached. He is however generally a lazy and arrogant player , relying on his backhand a lot and doesn’t play seriously most of the time.
     
  20. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    Here are some of my warmup shots doing drives defense and then before i left for the day I did clears.
    Clears start at 3:48 mark
    I need to work on being lighter in my feet for the drives. If you notice anything else please let me know
     

Share This Page