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Discussion in 'Hong Kong Open / China Open 2011' started by 2cents, Nov 27, 2011.
so tell me, are you hating yourself very much right now? since the day you were born??
I'm not a hater. I hate haters. I'm just stating the truth.
Whatever you think, people still think USA is a heaven, because they can get what they see as freedom. You can't get as much freedom in China as in western countries. Like it or not, that's what most people believes. Of all the top oversea students in western countries, at least 3/4 of them won't come back.
The Chinese government is a totalarian government. The government itselfs admit that. It may be a good government form, but this form is very easy to get hated.
While about taxpayers' money, high-speed rail and space program may actually seems useful, but sports (to those people) seems totally useless, because normal people or non-sports lovers can get nothing from it. Every day on major forums, there are heated debates one whether the country should subsidize athletes. And some famous medias consider it a shame for Chinese people because "only China is doing this".
You have no idea how severe the population problem is in China.
I sense you don't agree with them on their view of this country. I do not either.
I am just describing to you what I hear and what I see.
The problem about government form and the problem about national sports policies are very big and realistic issues. At least 100 million people are still in poverty by interantional standard, so people just don't really like rich people, especially those they consider not having contributed anything, like atheletes. That's why there are so many national team haters.
Do you think any malaysian will hate LCW because they hate the malaysian government? It's weird, right? But in China it may be the right thing to do.
they didnt hate lcw
they look down on lcw
Lucida, try to focus on the sport individual(s) and sport-related matters instead of knocking any country or nation, which isn't nice! A country or nation is definitely beyond any individual! As this is a sport or badminton forum in particular, i think any further discussion into other realm is inappropriate here (though i'm more than willing to have a friendly discussion with you upon it, esp. as i notice you've very shaped views).
I do not know what you mean. I am at Shanghai and I am native Chinese. I am not a hater and I have argued with haters on many Chinese forums. I tell you about their viewpoints. Why do you think I have shaped views?
In the first post I was just trying to tell you why LD was upset, because normally he wouldn't be. It's you who asked me to further state my opinion with a rather long post, and you think it's not nice now?
Are you Chinese or do you care about China very much? If not, I don't think you will be very persuasive.
Thank Lucida and Kelana both for your discussion. I fully understand both of you.
I think all views are shaped, all views are the reflection of his or her personal cultural sediment. Any statements, made by anyone, are the facts shaped by his analysis of relationship, pattern and risk taking.
Lucida has been clear on distinguish the facts, he presented from his view, and his personal standing. I see very valid reason for "haters" to "hate", although I don't think haters is the appropriate term for them. I don't think "haters" agreed others call them "haters".
Most misunderstanding comes with over generalization. This generalization could be made by the writer or by the reader.
For writers: For example, Here are the rules to write:
1) It should be ok to write: "Lin Dan is handsome". or "Taufik is cute"
2) It might be ok too to write: "Chinese are beautiful" or "Indonesians are pretty"
3) It's still fine to write: "Lin Dan is ugly" or "Taufik is ugly"
4) But it's NOT right to write "Chinese are ugly" or "Indonesians are ugly"
I never hate any people. It's not healthy to claim "I hate Lin Dan" or "I hate Taufik", but it's ok legally.
If someone claims "I hate Chinese" or "I hate Indonesians", then it's a crime; based on the #4 rule above.
It's important for writes to write right, and then readers have to interpret right too. Here are the rules to read:
1) "Chinese are beautiful" can be derived to "Wang YH is beautiful. That's ok.
2) It's fine to interpret that "Wang YH is beautiful" as "Chinese are beautiful", although it may not correct logically, it's fine legitimately.
3) But it's NOT right to draw your conclusion "Chinese are ugly" based on the statement "Lin Dan is ugly". That's not right.
One live example here:
Once I wrote I didn't like Taufik's on court behaviour, then huangkwokhau concluded that I hate all Indonesia players. This is an example huangkwokhau violated the readers' rule #3.
Once I wrote that I found Indonesia local organization did terrible job, then huangkwokhau accused me of hating all Indonesia people. That's a serious violation of his side on reading my writing.
Summary, both writers and readers have to obey the rules, and respect each other. I fully respect the people who either love Lin Dan or hate Lin Dan. I see both sides strong legitimate points. When I sit inside stadium watching LD vs LCW, I could "Jia You" for either one of them. 99% chance I will "Jia You" the one who's falling behind, as many friends suggested here.
By the way, I think mod/admin should kindly give huangkwokhau yellow card or/and red card for his continuous violations.
No wonder, no wonder, a typical Shanghainese.
As a Chinese currently working in US, who has spent more than 7 years here, I am wondering is that, USA is a heaven, Shanghainese view of points? As Shanghai being a modern and international metropolitan, this opinion still sounds short-sighted, very, very much. It sounds more like a 90-year old men who never steps out his own house.
Yes, many Chinese remain in US after studying. But are you blind for the trend? Comparing those who went to US in 1990's and those did in 2000's, what are the ratios and what is the trend?
And, if you ask Chinese what they need most in today's society. Guess how many would answer "freedom". At least my families in China won't answer this. They will say: more good food, more good clothes, cheaper price, etc. lol
And I am curious how many guests have you asked why they booed LD and they answered they were hating Chinese government. I've heard many reasons: wishing to see an excellent match, showing support to the one who loses, disliking cocky LD, disliking cocky LYB, but your idea is something quite new to me. Again as a native Chinese, active on many major Chinese forums, this is really retard. I remember you mention you are also active in many forum, I would guess they are primarily NanFangXi, aren't they? blinking, blinking
Great! Look at your previous thread....please do not twist the words...regarding INA Open..you knew you did wrong...you ACCUSED INA Open organizer done terrible and unprofessional before finding whats happening...Basically you accused PBSI and others favors INA Players and you did not find it.and it turned out INA Open is one of the best tournament....so you have violated beyond rule #4....see how many threads you have been locked....
Moderators should have warned you....
To be fair to CBA...as far as I know they do not use Government or tax money...CBA has secured enough sponsorships to fund the badminton players...FYI..LI NING's contract with CBA in 2009, it is about US$ 6 million then Fed-ex/DOW, etc..
You should inform your chinese forums that CBA did not use Tax money..may be during Olympic's program..
Being athlete is not easy...may be 1 out of 10000 can earn the living and many do not go to school and very much dedicate to the sport ( I am not talking about Chinese players only but mostly for Asian players) and they bring country's name...seriously..no reason to hate them..unless you do not like their behaviours ( thats another thing)
Half of the Li Na fans may boo LD because of this (though I doubt many of them will go to the court). Since the success of Li Na in Frech Open, she has become a symbol of "really professional" sportsman/sportswoman, and LD on the other hand, a symbol of "government subsidized" sportsman. I didn't exclude your reasons when I say "just enough", but those who don't like him because of the symbolization I mentioned is the most annoying, they will never like him no matte what he does. Why do you think I am "retard"? There is one big forum called Tianya, that's enough for you to know the situation.
I want to stress again, I'm not Shanghainese and that's not my view. It's some people I met here that gived those opinion.
Of course. That's what I believe! Of all the badminton associations, CBA is the only one that has four major sponsors. The sponsorship in 2007 is already at least 15 million, and certainly much higher now. But those "dissidents" still don't believe it. They will still comment under LD's and Li Na's news about the money problem. Along with the problem of walkovers, Lin Dan has formed an image of mere political propagandist in some people's eyes. There was a HUGE debate on four biggest web portals about whether the Olympic medals are important. Surprisingly, most anticipaters thought the country should spend most of the sports fund on exercises of masses rather than professional sports.
So there are people who look down upon all kinds of national teams because they competed "unfairly". With those fixed matches and walkovers, the badminton team just seems more "unfair". When some "dissidents" who boast themselves of taxpaying see this unfairness, you can understand how they don't like the team.
Then how about ping pong? Also it is so called "government subsidized", and I will laugh that LD become the symbol of "government subsidized sportsman".
I am a frequent visitor to tianya. Tell me where is that post. Don't tell me it is Tianyazatan.
I don't say you are retard. I just say those who hate LD just b/c they hate chinese government are losers and retard
PS, i am also sort of a fan of LI Na, as we both come from Wuhan, lol.
Same reason I love QIAO Hong, CHEN Jing in Pingpong, HAN Jingna, GAO Ling in badminton.
PPS: I remember one time LYB was kinda jealous about LI Na and said something disrespectful. I don't like LYB but I still think LD is great. Those who got pissed by this shouldn't target LD.
PPPS: been to Shanghai many times for my visa and flight connection, I would skip my impression obeying the rules of this forum. But one thing I should say is many people there are just !@#$%^(being so nice to foreigners but very disrespectful to Chinese from other cities)
There are people always wishing the Chinese ping-pong team to lose. Their first reason is of course it is too dominent. But when others ask them why they don't want the USA basketball team to lose, they will most likely respond with "well, they compete fair because they are real professional team".
I know "hater" is not the right thing to use. I want denote those whose wish someone to lose, which means something like LD-opponent-supporter.