Hong Kong Open 2006 FINALS (02/09)

Discussion in 'Korea Open / Hong Kong Open 2006' started by badMania, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    Yeah, as I said before. Zheng Bo should won something here. IMHO, he's one of the most talented double players, but has been wasted for so long. If he had not splited with Zhang Jie wen, there would be no such chaos in mixed double competition. :cool: If he had a good and stable partner in men's double, Cai/Fu would not be definitely the number 1 CHN md
     
  2. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    your last nite commentation was quite colorful;)
    you have good ears too:D
     
  3. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    hkg finals.

    ok lah. Malaysia boleh lah. At least a final; better than tak ada apa-apa. Its never easy beating the Chinese. Ayuh for the WC.
    rgds:D
     
  4. ksooi

    ksooi Regular Member

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    :D glad you enjoyed it..... :cool:
     
  5. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Agree with you. I think the camera work and lighting standard is similar to AE that's why it's visually so good. Other Asian Opens should learn from HKO in terms of making badminton telegenic.
    But I don't understand the disappointment with LCW expressed by some fans. His suspenseful comeback against CJ proves his worth as the World No. 1 and that it's not a fluke but CJ took a lot out of him as he took a lot out of CJ. He may have lost to LD cos he ran out of steam at the end (reflected in a string of errors) when LD's tactic was to go all out. But if you were to ask LD who is the one player he would not mind losing to, he will definitely acknowledge LCW because he knows LCW deserves it. So , patience , my friends. LCW looks good for WC.
    However , there's something absolutely deceitful about service judges in HKO. When their opponents asked for shuttle changes, in their matches, both CJ and Zheng Bo were not happy and told the respective service judges and the sj then did not or pretended to change the shuttle! China male players ,it seems ,are quite superstitious or thrifty about shuttle change.But if sj can go so low, I hope CJ and ZB realise that if you behave deceitful towards your opponents who are your fellowmen with common interest, then you deceive yourself and lose respect.They should learn from LD's mistake.
    The reason why TH never warms to LD is because LD toyed with PG over shuttle change in the past. That irks TH because TH believes you should treat your fellow players with utmost respect.If you observe TH's oncourt behaviour towards his opponents, he is ok with anything on their end and in this sense, TH is a role model and well respected by fellow players.LD himself has improved in his behaviour and LCW has trained him to ok shuttle change without resistance. Note how classy and respectful LCW gestures for shuttle change. You won't find LD saying no to PG's shuttle request anymore like in the past. LCW has influenced LD to behave better and I'm happy for LD and hopefully TH notice LD's progress in manners and move on.
    As for TH storming off in QF, HKBA got what they deserved. A lines judge who made a call before the shuttle landed is either inexperienced or 'ready to upset play'. If HKBA did not make provisions for the best lines judges and umpire to oversee TH's match against LD knowing TH's reputation and sensitivity,then it showed poor intelligence. (In tennis , after players complained about world no. 2 , Rafael Nadal's 'slow' play, they get the time-watching umpires to chair his matches).
    I applaud TH's behaviour because he has guts and is willing to face the consequences. Don't worry , no other players will behave like him. Rules are there to keep players in line.What are the rules for umpires and lines judges?What's an umpire's job? Just to keep score? Come on,it's to ensure fair play so that the players can concentrate on playing their best.That's what badmniton fans pay to see.IBF umpires only keep score that's why they earn little respect. The umpire is a joke. If a player is upset by a very bad call, it should be standard operating procedure to replace the lines judge for any player instead of when LD asked for it. IT should be SOP to replace the lines judge. Too bad HKO fans had to suffer for HKBA's lack of anticipation.
     
  6. zqloy

    zqloy Regular Member

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    Agreed. HK linesman is definitely a shame. During LD's quarterfinal, semifinals and finals match, there will be ridiculously bad line calls against the other player. Not sayin that LD doenst deserved the champion, he played well, but the linesmans really sucks. Even the usually good tempered LCW protested a bad line call during the 3rd set. I dont recall LCW did that b4 in the past matches, u can see how unfair they r.
    For my opinion, LD and LCW has high respect for each other. LD never refuses Lee's request for shuttle change.
     
  7. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    A bit off topic-Here we go again, just want to make a comment on this..

    pjswift, thanks for your input on this...If you haven't read, there's another thread on this issue, which you've probably have read or going to read..
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35765&page=13
    I'm going to kinda repeat what i wrote from that link:
    Sure Taufik or LCW or LD or KJ or any players have the right to be upset for all those "bad" calls..But actually that's not we're upset about-We fans have no qualms abt Taufik questioning the umpire/linejudges/referee, it's his right. But regarding the statement above which i've highlighted in bold, how do you know the linesjudge was either "inexperienced or 'ready to upset play'"??..If you don't know, our own red00ecstrat reported that he was at that match, sitting literally next to the court and he saw the shuttle landed "on the line", even "in"...Now, how would you call a shuttle that landed "on the line"??..in or out??out or in??..Put yourself in the linesjudge shoe??..It was a questionable call, and for one Taufik, how can he argue abt that call..Him trying to "blame" the linejudge over a questionable call will make it sound silly..
    What we're upset and the point of our displeasure was at Taufik's behavior towards the linejudge & his decision to just walk-off and concede a forfeit over what?? Is that how a WC and Olympic champs supposed to act?? And worst, if you haven't seen the pics of him acting in front of the linesjudge, how do you feel abt that?? And remember, it was very2 early in the game..with nothing much at stake..Why did he walk out and quit just like that??..
    And remember, KJ endured a similar thing also against his match vs. LD. Yet, even after the result, which was very crucial, he kept on playing. And not walking off like Taufik did.

    Re your comment abt being an umpire "being a joke & they only keep score", well, if you were in his shoe, how would you act or make that decision?? Would you overturn the linesjudge decision or keep it the same?? Did the umpire had the best angle on where that shuttle landed?? That's why he and the referee asked & conferred with the linesjudge for the confirmation. If the umpire over-ruled the linesjudge decision, WITHOUT having a solid and positive prove himself, then basically he's "hijacking" the game. Is that what you prefer?? Then where's the integrity of the game??..
    About them changin the linesjudges, if there's going to be a bad call in every match(which i'm sure there will be), then does that mean they have to replace the umpires, linejudges every single time there's one?? Don't you think it'll look silly??..:p
    BTW, re your comment abt them replacing "incompetent" linejudges, yes they did replace a linejudge in the KJ and LD match, but that was after another bad call. :rolleyes: :p
     
    #587 ctjcad, Sep 3, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  8. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Linejudging becoming the "scapegoat" of HK Open??..

    Hmm, so with this complaint, what actually changed from previous HK Open tourney's linejudging and umpiring?? ..Most of us thought that HK Open used to have one of the "fairest" and "neutral" linejudging in the circuit?? What does all of this criticisms of bad linejudging make of the HK Open now??..Is the HK Open becoming another "Korean Open", where HK linesmen are the "scapegoat"?? Has the quality of linejudges/linejudging drop considerably from last yr's HK Open edition??..:rolleyes: :p :(
     
    #588 ctjcad, Sep 3, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  9. tutu_h

    tutu_h Regular Member

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    the best is to follow the review of touch down as implemented in Tennis.
    this should be possible with proper lighting and angle of the cameras. the only question is, how much money r they willing to spend installing these cameras since the sponsorship is not as much as Tennis.
     
  10. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    A bit off topic-my opinion on this..

    You hit it on, just like another poster mentioned..;)
    sure they(IBF) can implement such technology to improve the quality of game-calling..I mean yah, it goes back to the finance issue..But then what if there are several calls that the players want to review, will they stop every so often and ask the umpire to review them??..And how often do they implement those special cameras to follow the shuttle's path??..:rolleyes: ;)
    sigh, seems like badminton is getting more and more technical unlike in the past..:p :(
     
    #590 ctjcad, Sep 3, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  11. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    i don't mind players protesting since the key point is: under NSS, every point counts where as before under OSS, u might just shrug it off and lose the serve and work harder to get the serve back. Under NSS, a point lost is a point gain to your opponent, u can't get it back.
    If ibf wants rally points like tennis, ibf shouldn't just stop at implementing the NSS. A cheap quick fix solution is incorporate 2 line judges per each sidelines instead of the current 1 per sideline.
     
    #591 cooler, Sep 3, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  12. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    oops, ignore my last statement, i think they use 2 linejudges per sideline already:D
     
    #592 cooler, Sep 3, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  13. event

    event Regular Member

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    This is an interesting theory but unfortunately it doesn't hold any water unless the Chinese team was trying to be devious without actually doing the math. In fact, by losing in the final, Zhang Ning ended up still as the world's #1 but only 102 points ahead of Xu Huaiwen. Xie did move up a little bit but the difference between 1st and 2nd in a 6* event is only 810 points but with this win she is still in the #5 spot about 700 points behind Pi Hongyan but still over two thousand points ahead of 6th place Mia Audina, who won't be at the WC anyway. Xie's points won't skyrocket because she loses the 4590 points from last year's HKO.
     
    #593 event, Sep 3, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  14. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    The linesman made the call BEFORE the shuttle landed and then changed his call AFTER, that's what I understood. To make a call BEFORE the shuttle landed indicates inexperience or a 'ready to upset play' frame of mind. If I were the umpire, I would replace the linesman as it indicates inability to judge under pressure.
    I think TH had to use sign language otherwise the linesman would not understand his Bahasa Indonesia. I read it simply as "you have vision problem? Maybe you should get glasses.' Others may be more imaginative in their interpretations.As you may be aware, TH is known for walking out when he perceives a less than savoury environment to play properly.He did this once to an umpire who could not make up her mind. Other players continue play regardless because they want to win or are afraid of the consequences;TH is in a class of his own.
    The umpire that was a joke was the one chairing the LCW vs LD match. Both commentators confirmed LCW's smash was in, TV viewers can see it was WAY in and the shot was on the near side of the umpire; the umpire chose not to overule (maybe he may not ever be invited back if he did) .I can just imagine the umpire sleeping or looking at the roof just before the shuttle landed! That was a VERY bad call and the line judge should be replaced because it suggested simply poor vision or poor frame of mind which meant he will not read properly. Any VERY bad call means effectively the victimised player loses two points instead of gaining two.
    The bad calls in the KJ vs LD match are 50/50 type, not as OBVIOUSLY bad as in the final. The linesman was changed at LD 's request , I believe, not on the umpire's initiative.( KJ should have made that request earlier; it would have eased his mind so he can play his usual steady game.) It's important to not assume the IF's scenario.: IF the SOP is to replace the linesman for every clearly bad call, then there might be a need for an army of linesman. You can see that in just those two matches,only three replacements are needed.The commentators felt sorry for the replaced linesman. How about feeling even more sorry for the player who should have been advantaged by two points instead of disadvantaged?
    BTW, pls enlighten me, do umpires have the final say on the shuttle change or the service judge?
     
  15. Jessica

    Jessica Regular Member

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    The umpire has the final say in the court...I am not agree with what you say that some players is afraid to leave the court when they are not happy...i think is not they scared or eager for win...They just showing respect to the competition,audiences and the opponent...Sometimes,as a player,they can't just leave the competiton as their wish and what i have to agree with you is,the linejudges are really unprofessional this time...I am not happy with the linejudge that just simply judge before the shuttle fall...
     
  16. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    They have final say on changing shuttles now, and line calls. The service judge has say on the service, and umpire on the receiver.

    IMO Taufik is within his rights to forfeit the game, and no charge can be laid on him with regards this action. However what he did was very un-sportmans like. It doesn't show any lack of respect for his opponent. He didn't want to play so he didn't.

    As with many sporting genius he is flawed. His temparament and emotional state is unstable. Nobody is perfect. Even Tony G lost!:D
     
  17. badMania

    badMania Regular Member

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    Just watched the last set of the MD Final between Kido/Hendra and Choong/Lee. It was another classic match full of heart-stopping rallies between the two pairs :eek: Kido/Hendra was 8-13 down before Markis Kido decided to put up a one-man show. He single-handedly levelled the scores to 13-13 with his jumping smashes.

    During the crunch moment when the score was 20-20, it was Kido's opportunistic shot which fortunately crossed the net and fell on the Malaysian's side of the court, unable to be returned by Choong Tan Fook. This changed the scoreline to 21-20 in favor of Kido/Hendra. Finally, Kido's return to the back of the court sealed the match 22-20. What a game...Kido's smashes are really deadly, despite of his height!
     
  18. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    A bit off topic..

    yes, basically that what was reported by Cheung or red00ecstrat in another thread(sorry have to do a search on that). That the linejudge changed it within 1/250th of a second, which means it was very2 quick..IMO, the shuttle landing "on the line", is a tough one, and i wouldn't say "it indicates inexperience or a 'ready to upset play'". Calling that particular shot slightly BEFORE the shuttle landed is understandable, let alone changing the call 1/250th of a second later..
    Here's a scenario:What would you do in that instance, say if the shuttle landed "on the line" or just say very close or near the line??..I'm sure you won't have a *definitive* call, right at that moment. Most likely you'll make one right after the shuttle had rest..Even then, another person from another spot could call it differently..:rolleyes: ;)
    Personally, after just that 1 call, and the first one, which you know already it was a questionable call, i wouldn't replace the linejudge..IF and if it happens again and again or like you brought up the example below on LD vs. LCW or LD vs. KJ match, then sure, i would consider replacing them..;)
    well, whatever his body and hand gestures were to the linejudge, it sure didn't look appropriate. Maybe he did it for communication purposes, but you or me or anyone else, and esp. the linejudge herself surely have our own perceived imaginations. You don't think the linejudge know what Taufik meant by his gestures??..
    On the statement i've highlighted in bold above, hmm, then what does that make of Taufik as a player/competitor??..Imagine if other players are like him(ie. Tony G. or ZN)??..:rolleyes: :p
    so, with these complaints, what does that make of the umpire, in the LCW vs. LD match to be specific??..does it show the umpire was being blatantly biased or just "inexperience"??..Personally i doubt it's the latter, cos being an umpire, one must have enough experiences before..;)
    well, exactly, as i've mentioned before..it would look quite "silly" doing so, won't it??..Abt "feeling sorry for the player who should have been advantaged by 2 pts instead of disadvantaged", well, i can understand that, only if the calls are "purely blatantly made" or done repeatedly...
    hmm, i believe jamesd20 had answered that..;)
     
  19. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    A bit off topic..

    hmm, then what about the IBF rules which was mentioned in this link by dropper??
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35765&page=13
    Don't tell us those rules are "just for the book"..;) ..
    He forfeited because of what??..just over 1 "questionable call", early in the match, which basically was 50-50??..:rolleyes: :confused:
    Sure nobody is perfect and every player, i'm sure, have their own temperament and emotional state, none excluded. But after becoming Olympic and World Champs and displaying we thought a "change in attitude" the last 2 yrs. or so, apparently it hasn't been so for Taufik..Tony G. lost, but i don't think he ever walk-off the court like what Taufik did, did he??..:rolleyes: ;)
     
  20. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    yes, tony lost but he gave a show to the crowd.
    agassi lost today too but he got a long standing ovation.
    In the eye of most badminton fans, taufik come closest to perfection because of his OC and WC titles but yet none of his much less perfect competitiors behave like that. Too bad i can't use 'nobody is perfect' excuse to get out of a speeding ticket.
     

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