How do I tell someone they aren't welcome in my circle?

[MarketWizard]

I understand this might be a bit sensitive... and to some people, I might be coming off rather abrasive or like an ass, so I'm prepared to take the snarky comments, but I'm sure some people have experienced something similar to this at one point or another so I'm seeking advice from people who were successful. And a little disclaimer... YES, I get that this sounds a bit high schoolish. I know, I know... but seriously I want to play with people who I want to play with and I tried to send signals in both a subtle way and a mean way and nothing gets through to this guy. So here goes.

The only badminton around me is open play badminton. For the past couple of months, there's one guy (let's call him F) who keeps inviting himself in my group of badminton buddies. His skill level is not as good as ours and he slows down our doubles games considerably with his poor shot quality. And I guess I could tolerate that to some extent if he was really trying to improve and I could see him get better, but he has very bad badminton etiquette so I dislike him as a player and as a person too. I'm sure people are wondering what I mean so an explanation is deserved.

He's extremely stingy with shuttles. He'll try and find used feather shuttles in the practice shuttle bin and pass it off as one of his when it's his turn to contribute. The shuttles he does have are of lower quality as well. But in addition to that, he's very apprehensive about using them. And when he does take a shuttle of his tube, he makes a point sometimes to announce he's contributing like he's being generous. When he misses a shot and it hits the net, he won't even bother flicking the shuttle back to his opponent and makes someone else get it. I have to stand there and point to the shuttle most of the times.

I've been trying to distance myself from him and emit a vibe of "leave me alone" but he just doesn't get the message because he's socially awkward. And this continuous "inviting himself in" today set me over the edge and I think I displayed pretty strong vibes that he's not welcome but he still doesn't get it.

So anyways me and one of the guys I'm relatively close to (let's call him A) were the last 2 people to leave the hall today because we were playing singles pretty late. As I'm wrapping up my stuff, A asks me "so I wanted to ask you, why do you dislike F so much? Your face was very expressive about how much you dislike him today. "

I was very hesitant to say because if I answer like this: 1) he's stingy with shuttles 2) he doesn't flick the shuttle back after he misses 3) he's not at our skill level... It makes me look a bit petty... Because I get it.. F does petty things and if I retaliate and be petty, then I'm just as immature one could argue... So I kinda just beat around the bush a bit...

But then A starts telling me some stories that makes F look way more weird and dislikeable than I could have imagined him to be, and A tells me they F is getting in his nerves too.

A told me that F said I'm not better than F. I played one single game today with F just to shut him up because he keeps asking, and I was up 14-4 at one point and just didn't play seriously after that. I let him catch up a bit but beat him 21-15 in the end. But F told A that he could have beat me by 10 points but he's just not giving it his full effort. What the hell? I'm not mad that he's hurting my badminton ego. I'm mad that he's saying some blatant lie, and A even said how stupid and childish he sounds. A knows how bad F is.

In addition to the last weird story, A also went on to further tell me another one. A said that F messaged him on Whatsapp last Wednesday to ask A if he's going to play that day. A replied he's going to play and was on his way to the badminton hall, but didn't specify that A was specifically going there to play singles against me. So F wanted to play too, but we kinda just ignored him when he was watching us, and we kept rotating sides after each game so that it wouldn't give F a chance to join in. F eventually played doubles with some other people that day, but the funny thing is, A told me that F complained to A because he specifically stopped eating his dinner and rushed over to the hall but he didn't get a chance to play.

There's a few more stories A told me but that would just make this post too long, but I did want to say one more thing A told me. F was bragging to A that he has some inside hookup to the factory that manufactures Yonex shuttles and that his unbranded shuttles are actually Yonex shuttles. Like WTF, what a weirdo. Who does these kind of things? 8 year old pathological liars? and who cares what the freaking brand is as long as the flight is good, but no, the shuttle feeling is far from Yonex standards.

I seriously feel like ripping my hair when I heard all that crap A said. The only reason why I probably never heard this crap was because I distance myself from F because he weirds me out, but A is a bit of a softy in some ways and doesn't want to be direct like me.

So anyways, in summary, nobody in my group likes him, he's socially awkward, he doesn't get the cues I'm giving him. And while me and A were in the parking lot, we both agreed that it's really difficult to tell him to piss off because that makes us look petty and immature. F didn't do anything that crossed the line in a major way, so telling him to take a hike will make the atmosphere weird and it'll be hard to interact with other people who we mutually know because he'll be there etc etc etc. So what do I do? Just bite the bullet and tell him to find someone else to play with, or is there a tactical way to get through to some of these people who are socially awkward that can't take the hint?

And just playing games and continously rotating probably won't work. He'll most definitely ask to join after we finish a game, and I don't think anyone has it in them to say "No".

 

[SnowWhite]

Who runs the sessions? What are the rules about who plays where and with whom? Are there any rules about shuttles?

That he is stingy with shuttles is a legitimate reason to not play with someone. You just have to tell him to bring good shuttles and contribute when it's his turn. If he doesn't, you have every right to decline his offer to play with you. He will no doubt argue about it, but as long as the consensus among your group is that his shuttles are bad, it doesn't matter what he thinks. You don't have to convince him, you just have to convince everyone else. And if you are being reasonable and he isn't, that shouldn't be too difficult.

Explain the situation (about the shuttles) to whoever runs the session. If they are a regular player, they should sympathize with your situation.

Unless it's clear to everyone that this guy is obnoxious, don't bring up all the other stuff. It will just make it seem the shuttle issue is an excuse to get him out.

Again, you don't need to get through to him, you just need most of the other players to agree with you.

 

[Budi]

Reading your post makes me laught hard. Not coz its funny but i find it similar to my experience. Bad skill, stingy shuttle contribute, & all talk.

From your story, maybe im close to "A". I know that this one (let use the same "F" as you) are bad skilled & stingy. I let that happen for quite a while. As the others are fine with that then im OK with it.
But after quite while he kinda like very anoying. For someone that talk big, he always avoid playing with the good player & he only play with beginner. Everytime he score a point he talk big, making insulting face as if he say "looser". Even when my beginner friend ask me to play with & i happen to be this F opponent, he will talk so big when he manage to score on me. he didnt even realize im not even serious or sweating at all. Im still let this go & just smile.
Later on he act as if he pay the court fully. He dont want to sit down & give the other chance to play. This time it start feel like a toxic to the group. Majority of people there dislike him but just dont have the gut to confront him. For this, its bad for the group so i cant just ignore this & start my quest.
Everytime he play, i will join as his opponent. When he start his big talk, i will get serious & beat him badly. I would say thank you when he makes bad return. Purposely give him high lift to let him smash it till he is depleted & say "what... Need a drink? Not enough sleep? Where the deadly smash". After the games end, if he dont want to sit, i will also stay & say "want more challange?". But i guest he is a stone head or something. He still join in & become annoyance to everyone.
The final is when he play & smash a totally beginner girl on her forehead. He still makes cocky act & didnt even say sorry. I tell the girl to sit & im smash his head in return when im manage to force him to makes bad return at the net. He get angry at that time to me.
I return the shout to him "she is a girl & totally beginner yet you smash it like that on her. We all had an issue with your attitude. Here are an open club, everyone are welcome to join. Go to court1 for challange game or court2 for fun games, feel free to choose. But before joining learn to respect the others. Fix your attitude & come back here.
He is leaving & never come back. We all play happily like forever. So if he start to become toxic to the group, the choice is to remove the poison or the club itself dieing. Someone had to make an act. But if its only you who had a problem, well i guest i just personal issue that need to be solved by both you & him.

 

[mclarge]

You're going to have to push back on his indiscretions. You should've done that from day one.
Every time he contributes a used or poor quality shuttle, tell him off. Every time he doesn't return the shuttle to the opponents properly, tell him that shows a lack of respect.
I assume that he only hangs around your crew and not others is because you guys have put up with it. You can set reasonable boundaries and if he breaks them you have every right to tell him to go away.
You've been leading him on and that's unfair. Excluding him from playing by using that rotation tactic is childish. Be straight with him.

 

[MarketWizard]

Who runs the sessions? What are the rules about who plays where and with whom? Are there any rules about shuttles?

You just have to tell him to bring good shuttles and contribute when it's his turn. If he doesn't, you have every right to decline his offer to play with you.

Nobody runs the group persay but I kinda coordinate and rally people on Whatsapp to find time to play.

If I force him to buy proper speed shuttles I have a feeling he will and we'll be back to square one with less "bargaining power", lol.

Everytime he score a point he talk big, making insulting face as if he say "looser". Even when my beginner friend ask me to play with & i happen to be this F opponent, he will talk so big when he manage to score on me. he didnt even realize im not even serious or sweating at all. Im still let this go & just smile.
Later on he act as if he pay the court fully. He dont want to sit down & give the other chance to play.
Everytime he play, i will join as his opponent. When he start his big talk, i will get serious & beat him badly. I would say thank you when he makes bad return. Purposely give him high lift to let him smash it till he is depleted & say "what... Need a drink? Not enough sleep? Where the deadly smash". After the games end, if he dont want to sit, i will also stay & say "want more challange?". But i guest he is a stone head or something. He still join in & become annoyance to everyone.
The final is when he play & smash a totally beginner girl on her forehead. He still makes cocky act & didnt even say sorry. I tell the girl to sit & im smash his head in return when im manage to force him to makes bad return at the net. He get angry at that time to me.

Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on my perspective, he's not THIS bad. If he were this bad, me and others would have zero hesitancy to tell him to leave. It's just him treading the line very closely which makes this situation so difficult
. But I'm glad you got your situation sorted out. Sounds like that's a big weight off everyone's shoulder.

You're going to have to push back on his indiscretions. You should've done that from day one.
Every time he contributes a used or poor quality shuttle, tell him off. Every time he doesn't return the shuttle to the opponents properly, tell him that shows a lack of respect.
I assume that he only hangs around your crew and not others is because you guys have put up with it. You can set reasonable boundaries and if he breaks them you have every right to tell him to go away.
You've been leading him on and that's unfair. Excluding him from playing by using that rotation tactic is childish. Be straight with him.

Yea I did tell him off for the shuttle thing. And was very unpleasant towards him hoping that he'll find my nastiness enough reason to not come around me but he just doesn't get it. And in retrospect it makes me look immature and accomplished nothing. YAY!

I think he just wants to play with people that are one level better than him but not too far off his level. Probably in his warped way of thinking, he still believes he's better than all of us and uses mental gymnastics to justify it. He'd rather not play with people that are the same level because he wants more of a challenge and sees them inferior. That's what I'm guessing.... But I guess as you've said, the only thing at this point that can be done is just tell him to go away. I'll have to figure out the most optimal way to do so. I'm open to any suggestions, but it might be difficult for people to offer their ideas seeing how I can only communicate by text to you all and the context of the whole situation and his actions/mannerisms, etc is really what determines the delivery method of how to tell him to go away.

 

[Cheung]

If you have arranged specific games with a certain person(a) for singles, or doubles , can’t you say you have arranged the game between yourselves?. Therefore, it’s a private arrangement.

As for the shuttle issue, I would say to the guy, the shuttles you have aren’t up to standard, we can use our own but he has to pay for the shuttle.

 

[MarketWizard]

That sounds like the softest way of explaining it to him. Yea it looks like it has come down to that and I'll have to do that and endure his cringy crybaby attitude. Hopefully he'll get the message and we won't have 5 people anytime soon and have to come up with another reason why we don't include him in the rotation.

I'll use your suggestion and report back .

 

[LuckyR]

I don't know where you are located but around here, we are lucky enough to have enough total players to switch courts awsy from a player you want to avoid but few enough players where everyone doesn't want to alienate a player since we want to build numbers.

Good luck.

 

[SSSSNT]

This happens to one of my badminton group. There's this one guy who's socially awkward and a beginner always asking to join but nobody seem to like him. When he ask to join we just say ask our leader and our leader always say to him our group is full (even though he blatantly let new people in including me). If the guy enters the court we tell him he can warm up with us but he can't play cause our friend wants to play. We play with him only if it's early and we don't have enough people. He plays with another group in the court beside ours now that's more to his skill level. I'm kinda new to this group so I don't know the full backstory but I think this is a similar situation.

 

[John Xina]

A simple and stern "Hey, you're not the right fit for our group, so we won't be playing with you moving forward" is the right move. If they ask why, just reiterate that they're not a good fit and that it's best for the group if he found a new circle. Stand firm and don't let him drag on the conversation any further, otherwise he could try to drag you down to his level and start an argument.

 

[Ballschubser]

How to mob someone without being guilty of mobbing someone ?

If you have arranged specific games with a certain person(a) for singles, or doubles , can’t you say you have arranged the game between yourselves?. Therefore, it’s a private arrangement.

I think this is the most effective and still nice way to avoid such games.

But honestly, try to be more tolerant. In my club are several people who get 'nasty' when playing doubles, e.g. they start to blame you when you make misstakes, one other start to cheat by adding some more points to his scoreboard once he got behind. But outside of the court they are really nice. I was accused to not returning the shuttle in a nice way too, and yes, I never thought about it being an issue, so I changed my behaviour. Just telling him some rules/ettiquette , you as group follow, may help all of you. E.g. the side on which the shuttles drops defines the player/team who needs to pick it up. At the start of a game each player needs to put one new/equal quality shuttle to the sideline, check the shuttle (speed check) before or ask if it is okay to continue with an used, but almost new shuttle.

 

[Cheung]

But honestly, try to be more tolerant.

This is not the way. It only builds up more personal resentment and is not solving the problem.

I took my daughter to an adult session last night. She’s capable of playing with adults. They are very nice to her and she got some good playing experience. She was balanced with the other ladies in the group.

They asked me to join in. Well, I am older, haven’t practiced for a while and basically know my limitations when I have practiced. The other men players were easily very good and powerful. Competitive players in Malaysia are pretty good. The organiser asked me a couple of times and I declined. I explained three good guys with one poor player like me is unenjoyable. Explaining further, I have been in the similar situation as the good player and and having a not very good player regularly coming in - it’s very unpleasant. For those people who have taken the effort to drive out maybe for long distances for their once / twice a week game well, it’s wasting their time. A few years ago, I would have jumped in as I felt I could keep up but almost every night I am busy with driving my kid back from training and it’s impossible to play enough to keep my standard up at present time. Honestly, I think I got more respect when I said I used to play tournaments but haven’t been able to keep up training and therefore should sit out. There were no weak players at this session. Lol.

If a person is socially unaware of the etiquette, my opinion is after a few sessions of assessment, a decision has to be made. The situation doesn’t need to go on regularly. Clear communication is good. After all, a private party is a private party and gate crashers don’t need to be tolerated.

That sounds like the softest way of explaining it to him. Yea it looks like it has come down to that and I'll have to do that and endure his cringy crybaby attitude. Hopefully he'll get the message and we won't have 5 people anytime soon and have to come up with another reason why we don't include him in the rotation.

I'll use your suggestion and report back .

what happened in the end? You shouldn’t fall for the trap of him saying “I could have beaten the other guy easy”.

 

[UkPlayer]

I explained three good guys with one poor player like me is unenjoyable. Explaining further, I have been in the similar situation as the good player and and having a not very good player regularly coming in - it’s very unpleasant. For those people who have taken the effort to drive out maybe for long distances for their once / twice a week game well, it’s wasting their time.

If only everyone had this awareness. Usually people's ego makes them think they're good enough and of course they always want to play with the better players and prove themselves.

 

[dnewguy]

If only everyone had this awareness. Usually people's ego makes them think they're good enough and of course they always want to play with the better players and prove themselves.

A few days back a familiar face kept barging in every alternate game (MD).
I asked my partner to Target this guy. We made him move front & back. Taping his serves and smashing at him varying speed & angles.
He couldn't make a single point and got out of breath soon and understood (I'm assuming) when we won by more than 10 points easily.
He didn't return on our side of the court that day & we happily continued amongst ourselves.