How many challenges per game/match should there be?

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by pcll99, Jan 20, 2018.

?

How many hawk-eye challenges per game/match should there be?

  1. There should be three challenges per match

    16.7%
  2. There should be two challenges per match

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. There should be two challenges per game

    66.7%
  4. There should be one challenge per game

    8.3%
  5. None of the above (please specify)

    8.3%
  1. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,732
    Likes Received:
    630
    Occupation:
    Cylon
    Location:
    N/A
    Is two hawk-eye challenges per game too much? How many challenges per game or match should there be?

    I think BWF should allow only one challenge per game.

    Some players are simply using the challenges for tactical purposes (eg, breather).

    If there is only one challenge per game, players will only ask for challenge if he or she thinks the line call was really wrong.

    What do you think?
     
  2. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    Surabaya
    There should be 2 challenges allowed for straight sets games, but an extra challenge is allowed in the 3rd set.
    Also, max number of challenges in any game is 2. So u only hv 2 challenges even if u hvn't used any by the 3rd set

    Also, the linesman's pay is to be deducted if the challenge is succesful.. Ha..ha..ha... just kidding....:D:D:D
     
    #2 sautom88, Jan 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  3. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    730
    Location:
    Germany
    Isn't this a technical problem? Once HawkEye is fully automated, there's no reason why it should take more than a second. If for some strange reason it takes longer, more and/or better hardware could solve the problem. I'm not sure how the user interface for the umpire looks at the moment; is the review started by a button press or by a human seeing the raised left hand?

    I think 2 failed challenges per game of 21 is fine; for the audience it's much more important that a computer confirms the line judges than a small unnecessary pause in between.
     
  4. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,497
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next world tour tournament
    2 per game is the right amount. with 1 you leave it up to the line judges too much, especially when the shuttle in md & xd can be very fast. if there were 3 or more it would start to feel like humans are a waste of space.
     
    #4 samkool, Jan 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  5. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,497
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next world tour tournament
    you can't take something from nothing.

    not kidding. :D
     
    Cheung likes this.
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,856
    Likes Received:
    4,820
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Over a three set match, it works out to be 6 challenges per match for each player and so then potentially twelve overall. That is quite an interruption over a long match. And is one of the reasons we have been seeing longer televised matches on show courts.

    I think maximum four challenges by one player over a whole match whether it is two or three games (maximum two failed challenges per game) will be very very interesting.
     
  7. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    730
    Location:
    Germany
    That rule would be quite the bookkeeping challenge and hard to explain to players though, wouldn't it? "No, you have one challenge left, but not in this game, only in the next one".
     
    samkool likes this.
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,856
    Likes Received:
    4,820
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Don't know.... Are you saying umpires have difficulty communicating? :D
     
  9. Fidget

    Fidget Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    330
    Location:
    Canada
    Another vote for 3 challenges per match. (not limited to one per game). Make it a valuable commodity to be used carefully.

    And to counter the strategy of using a challenge to break an opponent's momentum or just to get a towel-down, the players should have to stay on court.
    --- ---- ---- ---- ----
    I must say I don't have the same tolerance to watch matches anymore because of all the delays. The "long walks" between points; conferring with coaches; barely seeking permission from the ump while walking off the court to get a drink.....
     
    stanleyfm and Cheung like this.
  10. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    Surabaya
    In Asia they do get paid, either full time or free-lance when they r being used for tournaments. I hv a friend who does that as a free-lancer, his father is an official @ PBSI, Indonesia's Badminton Association. He gets paid abt US $30-50 per day for international tournaments, here in Surabaya.
     
    pcll99 likes this.
  11. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,856
    Likes Received:
    4,820
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    I think the linesman get around usd30 per day in Hong Kong Open. That really is a lot of love and good will for these big tournaments.
     
    Fidget and sautom88 like this.
  12. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    59
    Location:
    Germany
    2 per game is just fine
    players can check their eyes out once and the second one should be taken very thoughtfully

    correct line calls/decisions make the game fairer which is great, also it takes away frustration if players/fans feel betrayed, very important for me


    I agree with Fidget, I start noticing that i lose patience watching a game because of all the delays. BUT Hawkeye has nothing to do with it!
     
    stanleyfm and Fidget like this.
  13. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    Here
    I'd say make it unlimited challenge. But if you're wrong, you lose 2 points.
     
    samkool and pcll99 like this.
  14. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,732
    Likes Received:
    630
    Occupation:
    Cylon
    Location:
    N/A
    That's an interesting idea.

    After 2 failed challenges, i think it's a good idea to still allow challenges. But if your challenge is unsuccessful, you would lose a point (or two).
     
  15. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    730
    Location:
    Germany
    In an entertainment league like the Indian PBL or Purple League, sure, go ahead (although you probably want to add an additional point to the opponent, lest you end up with negative scores).

    In a serious sport, as long as the number of incorrect line calls is non-negligible, you'd punish players who are honestly challenging because they thought the result was in. Isn't that the majority of challenges?
     
  16. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    313
    Location:
    Norway
    I wish there was a way to make IRS so that every suspicious line call would be checked quickly and perhaps even without the player's intervention. I think the technology is already there, is it not?

    That way we could avoid it been used for delay tactics and also prevent the situation like with Lin Dan in the... Olympic (I think?) when at the crucial point of the match he was out of challenges as a result of high quality game with so many tight line decisions...
     
  17. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,497
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next world tour tournament
    during this malaysia s500 the time it took from hand raised by umpire to irs video was 12 seconds or less.

    the avg. time from end of point to the next serve is 25 seconds.
     
    phihag and Fidget like this.
  18. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    313
    Location:
    Norway
    Yes, I meant "quickly checked" as in "right away without need for the challenge"...
     
  19. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,497
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next world tour tournament
    they could set up an audible system like tennis does for serving... It beeps if the serve is out. Badminton could do it for every rally.
     
  20. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    Here
    by losing 2 point, I meant opponents gain 2 points instead of the usual 1 point. Thought that was clear.

    We give players unlimited opportunity to challenge, with risk. If they don't want to take the risk, no one's forcing them to. The risk itself can be adjusted. We can make it half a point so opponent only gain 2 points after two unsuccessful challenges.
     

Share This Page