How to politely tell people to shut the f*ck up?

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by cuius, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    700
    Location:
    Germany
    Your partner does not want to improve her defense?

    When I train with a partner, we'll do exercises for both of us, but always the same one, switching in between sets. This has multiple advantages:
    • While you're resting (in this case throwing / attacking), your brain has time to process how to do the shot, so the second and third sets are often significantly better.
    • Both partners can look at each other's technique and learn from it correct it.
    • There's no discussion about fairness - we both have about the same training.
     
    cuius likes this.
  2. InvincibleAjay

    InvincibleAjay Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    83
    Occupation:
    Badminton Coach
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Unfortunately, this is quite common and yes I agree with the others, it happens more because you are a girl. It shouldn't matter but it does.

    I think the other factor is you are an improving player and you have said yourself that you are not concerned about winning the rally, moreso on the aspect it is enjoyable interms or skill and variety or play. I suppose the 'alpha' males that want to win cannot help but give advice to you.

    I'm a coach in UK and I notice this happened quite often. Even in my own club I find some of club members like to give advice to girls somewhere along the lines... "stay at the front, get the net shots, I will do the rest". These are all guys as you mentioned are not perfect players themselves and also make lots of mistakes but because they are better than the person they are giving advise too, they believe they can do this. This is stupid and ridiculous on many levels. First how will that person improve if they are not challenged at the back and also put under pressure. Teaching a girl player to stay at the front does not improve her overall game. I have often stepped in and explained what would be a better alternative and also intervened when they are talking complete BS. They often shut up as they know I am a coach.

    Kindest regards,

    -Ajay-

    Quote of the Day
    When I was a kid my parents moved a lot, but I always found them.
     
    cuius, skeksis, Rob3rt and 1 other person like this.
  3. eiji

    eiji Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Singapore
    Everyone has their own reasons and objectives when playing the game. OP has her own opinion on how she wants to enjoy her game, we have to respect that. On her playing partners, all I can say is, you can and should speak out about your feelings, if they arent respecting you then simply dont play with them. Life is too short and time that can be spent playing badminton is too precious to have to waste with people you dont enjoy playing with.
     
    cuius likes this.
  4. badmintony

    badmintony Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,370
    Likes Received:
    273
    Location:
    San Andreas
    That's precisely the answer you're looking for. Never mind the game, at least you have better peace of mind and assertion of yourself on some d.....bags:D Just look for another partner who wouldn't bother you as much.

    Sometimes, the best solution to some issues is not something technical or by the rule, but going out of the box and still holding your reputation good.;)
     
    cuius likes this.
  5. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    72
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    Got it. I agree with you. I do that myself in my own "fun"/practice games as well. We all need to have chances to work on different aspects from different positions. Simply mandating partners to only cover a certain area is bad taste, unless of course there is an agreement for, say, a serious match (tournament?), or you're working towards that goal. Overall, playing with varieties, and different tactics is a good idea. Enough in competitive situation, winning is often time not the best goal (even though we all want it). This is an outcome goal. Better is to set performance goal (e.g. I could do very tight serve with minimal errors, something I practice a lot; I could intercept in some of my 3rd shot, when I'm the server; etc.)

    Cheating in points is not good. Arguing about marginal line calls is also unnecessarily. They say, if it's close enough, give your opponents benefit of a doubt. If it becomes important, line judges may be needed.
     
  6. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    72
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    In case you don't already know, in addition to high underarm lift (which actually could be difficult if your opponent's smash is fast), you could also do underarm drive, straight or cross. Your short defense (I take it they're blocks), could also be straight or cross, depending on your front opponent's position. You could also hit it deeper into the mid court (keep it flat). These shots with pace would make it more difficult for front player to kill easily (esp. when you've the other variations), without giving smasher another chance to smash.
     
    cuius likes this.
  7. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    72
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    You could also practice hitting against the wall. The speed is under your own control. Work on minimizing your arm swing, e.g.
     
  8. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    72
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    Coming back to playing at the front. It doesn't have to be as bored as you say. Perhaps you need to look into it to see if you play it properly.

    There're net situations - are you positioning yourself correct, e.g. follow the shots on the correct side. Are you able to play variety of shots to challenge front player, play mid-court to confuse both of them, be vicious when a loose net is played, or even killing tight net making front player unable to compete with you at net. Are you able to help your partner by cutting off flat drives, cutting off flat lift in the 3rd shot designed to trouble your partner. Are you able to anticipate general direction of your opponents' reply? Do you back up from the net when they lift, and remember to move back closer to the net when your partner drop. Are you able to trick them with straight/cross net shot, with a hold?

    Player at the front doesn't translate to stuck at the T on the service line. It could actually be very dynamic. It's not uncommon for even International level players to have front-specialists.
     
  9. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Germany
    Well I wanna give another perspective here. We have not heard the opinion of the Men.

    OP wants to have fun games with no care about winning and without exploiting weaknesses.

    I think tactical (and to some degree even techniqual) advise therefore is of no sense. Tactics is all about exploiting weaknesses of your opponents. So why worry about that if you just want to play some nice rallies.
    Tell your partner in a friendly manner that you want to play level doubles and not mixed or whatever.

    In General:
    Unfortunately women cannot compete with man physically. So to play a sport together we are blessed we can do so in Badminton. Not many sports offer that. Though to have a good game, there must be tactical adjustments which are made the usual Mixed tactics.


    To be honest, i am often bored if we play with women. The Woman would have to have very much higher standards than the Man on court to play a good level double. Otherwise i will be bored, especially if the girl is on the other side of the court (if I play with a girl than its at least a challenge and i can go allout).
    Now girls who actually ARE that good would never ask to play with me. They rather play with there teampartners who are way better than me (and them obv.).

    So im sometimes not amused of what girls can allow. Always play with better people whereas I have to play with worse players and can only hope to get a game with better players if I ask kindly and get lucky.

    Pretty unfair in my opinion. A lot of wailing from girls nonetheless.

    Also I feel like very good female players enjoy a good mixed game, but for that the standards of all players must be reasonably high.
    It sounds like OP will not get so far because the winning mentality is not existing (which is completely fine, but one should also be fond of other attitudes)


    PS: We never just say "go to the net" to anybody. No matter how big the skildifference. I have never experienced that in my club. I ask my female partners if they wanna play mixed or doubles before the game. Pretty much ALWAYS they will answer doubles so nobody is getting directed to the net all the time.
     
    opikbidin and Rob3rt like this.
  10. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    59
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    I think I must see the situation first before passing judgement.

    My thing is...many people don't know when to do front back position and when to do side by side, and also how to change from one formation to another, both man and woman.

    At the front, they don't help the rear player
    At the back, they always play a loose shot and can't cover.
     
  11. badmintony

    badmintony Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,370
    Likes Received:
    273
    Location:
    San Andreas
    What we usually do is to simply agree before a match on how we'd like our game to proceed. If I'm partnering with a stronger player, on a sort of handicapped match, I would ask the stronger player if he would like me to stay at the front most of the time and take care of the opponents' drop shots and net plays that would be inaccessible to him during a rally, or we play as normal, boxing out whenever necessary. We almost always do an "I" position whenever the rally gets tough and I set him up for some good opportunity smashed shots. But very seldom would any of my partner coach me, maybe because I make it known to my partner also where I got my moves wrong.
     
  12. cuius

    cuius New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Earth
    So many new replies O_O

    It depends on the skill level of my opponents but I'm usually not sleeping or hiding at the net ;) Of course there is always stuff I can practice when I'm at the net. But I just don't really enjoy it that much. Also, more often than not, I don't see that our game improves if I stay only at the net. So I just don't understand why we should play like that.

    I'm sorry to hear that! I think the problem is that there are far more good guys than good girls in badminton. So the girls may have an advantage in choosing with whom they want to play. In my group, we have a lot of people with a similar skill level, and we also have quite a few good girls, which is why I don't think that the guys are in a disadvantage in our group.

    I don't think that this is the reason in my case. My footwork is quite good, and it is definitely better than the footwork of the guys who tell me to play only at the net. THEIR footwork usually is terrible.
     
    phihag likes this.
  13. colekwok

    colekwok Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    5
    Occupation:
    Fixing people
    Location:
    London/HongKong
    I can see your pain. I run a local club just for fun (although I am not a coach myself). We do have loads of beginners and of course, girls as well, like some of the people here had said, we tend to mix the weakest with the strongest to make things even. Tactically speaking, there are always some aggressive players who always smash at the female players either intentionally or subconsciously, which I think is not a gentleman thing to do. I think your attitude is right, tell them back their own weaknesses or faults, whether they like it or not. If it is not a competitive game, it should be for the fun of it. A good player should cover the weakness of his/her partner rather than accusing each other.
     
  14. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    700
    Location:
    Germany
    Say what? Female players are not inept fledglings that have to be protected by men. Especially in defense, which is mostly a matter of skill, not physical attributes, women can be as good as men. While much of this thread was about disrespecting a female partner, you seem to advocate disrespecting a female opponent!?

    If you never smash at a female player, how are they supposed to learn to defend, or develop better tactics? If you always smash at the man (who presumably can defend better), you're also covering up the opponents' tactical and technical problems.

    Imagine there are two clubs. In club A, there's an unwritten rule that no serious smashes go to the women. Club B sees the women as full players - they are expected to learn to defend just like anyone else. If a player's defense is not as good as their partner's (no matter which sex), they will develop tactics to work around that, such as not lifting in the first place, lifting to the better side, and modifying the defense zones in doubles from the default to better suit their skills.
    What will happen if the two clubs meet in competition? B will utterly destroy A. That's because B played badminton, and A played a game with home rules.

    Now, if there is a huge skill gap and one player is quite new, I can understand playing tactically wrong intentionally. However, as a non-chauvinist player one should do that no matter whether the player is a man or a woman.
     
    stradrider likes this.
  15. colekwok

    colekwok Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    5
    Occupation:
    Fixing people
    Location:
    London/HongKong
    I suggest you re-read my original post. My club is filled with beginners, including girls. You simply do not target them intentionally, it is not about whether they can get used to being smashed at, we have numerous of beginners leaving simply because they felt being 'bullied' by the better players. Young man, I can understand your logic if your club is about coaching and competitions, but at our place, we are just a group of badminton enthusiasts at some very different levels. Never smash at girls? Well, we do, but like I said, just not intentionally. What's the point of having a 2-shot rally when you know you get the point whenever you smash at the beginner's side if you are playing in a non-competitive game?
     
  16. badmintony

    badmintony Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,370
    Likes Received:
    273
    Location:
    San Andreas
    Well to us here's our deal: we always treat our games from being semi-competitive to highly competitive, but always with the objective of trying to apply some amount of pressure on members to get better with their game, especially in the absence of formal training. When we cue players for matches, whether players of same skills level or sort of handicapped matches, we have a rule that everyone is aware of, and that there would be "no mercy". This means that if it's gonna be a mixed doubles, our female players are aware that they can be targeted at / picked on with any type of gameplay, including getting smashed at. But this doesn't mean doing it in "bullying way." We don't bodyshot them, or do it in a very intimidating way, we just make them feel the real deal that could occur in a game like badminton. Even the way we smash at them vary in degree depending on the "target player's" skills level:p
     
  17. cuius

    cuius New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Earth
    @colekwok and @phihag : I think you're both right. For me, this is not a gender issue but simply a question of "do we want to have fun or not" for every player in the game. If there is one substantially weaker person in the game, I guess, most of the other players would not constantly smash at this person, regardless of the gender. This is just not classy, especially if there is another way of winning the game, and the other way is more fun for everybody.

    I personally don't mind being smashed at, even though my defense is weak. I only don't like being smashed at if we could have easily avoided it. But then it's our fault and we deserved it ;)

    Today I played again with one of the guys I mentioned in the first posting... There was just no other way around it. We don't have great chemistry as a team and we play very different styles. He almost never smashes, but always clears and sometimes drops. I'm starting to think that he has issues with his shoulder. And I'm a little bit frustrated to move to the front if he's in the back because most of the times he just plays a clear and I have to move back again :confused: Weird. At least, he did not complain about my game this time.
     
  18. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,396
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Occupation:
    N90 sycophant
    Location:
    SW UK
    You get these people everywhere.

    I had one guy at the front, I was at the back. He played a net shot, the opponent lifted, and he ran back to retrieve the shot. I hesitated, neither of us hit it, he told me it was his shot. Even the opponents looked confused, because it was without a doubt, my shot.

    I've had people tell me I should stay in when they've just played a clear or I've just played a lift, and I can't help but wonder if they think I should block smashes with my face.

    I've had people tell me not to lift when someone is standing a foot away from the net ready to pounce.

    These people exist everywhere, I'd recommend you just play your game.
     
  19. mckenziespeaks

    mckenziespeaks New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    Graphic Artist
    Location:
    USA
    I guess there's nothing wrong if you listen to their suggestion and all. I would have to agree with you it really is irritating when someone tells you over and over again on what you should do. I have a bad temper dealing with these types of people, I usually tell them to try it first and that they don't have the right to tell me what's best for me and not. I am too superior to listen to their sh*ts. At the end of the day, the choice is still yours.
     
  20. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    72
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    Perhaps he's also badminton forum's member, read all your posts, and recognized it was you!! ;)
     

Share This Page