HSBC BWF WORLD TOUR FINALS 2019 | 11-15 December (Group Stage-Final)

Discussion in '2019 Tournaments' started by CLELY, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. lodoss

    lodoss Regular Member

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    o_O oh dear, i wonder what makes u think this way. Ahsan/Setiawan played their last group match early on Friday, while Endo/Watanabe and minions played last. so there is no way they can fixed anything.

    ok, understand? ;)
     
  2. ant01

    ant01 Regular Member

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    I don't mind who wins MD tomorrow since I like both pairs, I just pray for another awesome match like the New Zealand Open earlier this year:
     
  3. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    true, can't disagree with that. however,
    as an adult it's his own responsibility to make himself play his best. obviously marcus is an emotional person on court so why not try playing mad instead of sad? he's got to try something if what he's doing is consistently not working. he's an adult. suck it up. if you expect to be coddled go back to juniors. the same goes for kevin... if he doesn't realize his attitude is working against his partner how can he expect to climb over the endo/watanabe wall?
    yet every year they come up empty in the big one everyone peaks for.

    it doesn't matter if they beat everyone else consistently. they are #1 so their standards and expectations are different than other top 10 pairs. so, in order to overcome their one current major obstacle are they willing to self reflect and change? do they believe they even need make changes? more importantly, can they change?
     
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  4. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Too much unruly expectations. Look at AhsanHendra.. Lose or Win.. just enjoy..

    Its not like the past anymore.. Gideon is a father now while Kevin is a businessman. somehow i have the feeling opening vinions are connexted to Kevin attitude.

    will he do better if he is given LiJunhui/Sonoda? I think he will do better if he plays with Yuta though.
     
    #704 Yoji, Dec 14, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  5. Martynas

    Martynas Regular Member

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    sorry if you think that in a pair each other emotions do not influence pair dynamics and other person concentration, attitude and emotions, then that would mean that they are just two persons on the court but not the team, in such case I very doubt that they would make it even into top 30. They have to be just sound and calm personally and as a pair when it is difficult to play, not only when they believe that their opponents are peace of crap. They win and loose as a pair, no one should blame nor Gideon/nor Kevin, the same goes to Kevin/Gideon, but they way you loose makes very very big difference.
     
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  6. indrg

    indrg Regular Member

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    Kevin/Gideon better watch closely the recipe to beat Yuta/Endo from Hendra/Ahsan. They will keep the rally to the minimum & play at most 5 shots every rally.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. indrg

    indrg Regular Member

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    True that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    You think minions have the skill set for that? I doubt it.
     
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  9. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    That's why Marcus as the big brother of the pair, the more matured and supposedly not childish and more experienced should influence the "better but childish" partner on how to act or behave. Not sulking on himself on his part and left his childish partner confused and frustrated. So far I have yet seen Marcus behaved in anything positive once he is in this "self pity" mode. Even I am fed up watching him doing his "I'm worthless" act on court. If he wants to do it, do it after the match is over. Man up as the match is still going on and he has his partner waiting for him doing his role.
     
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  10. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    i like to write about what i see from all aspects of badminton worldwide without the intent of personal judgement, except when i'm railing on bwf as an entity. i don't have any emotional or vested interest or care if any player wins or loses. there are enough fanboys to defend players after they lose.

    i'm not saying it doesn't. but first they need to get a grip on their individual mental maturity.

    here's the long explanation...

    tournament court time is very very short relative to the actual time they spend training together. if what they show during tournaments over and over again is fairly obvious to everyone watching (1. kevin's immaturity, visible impatience and attitude towards marcus, & 2. defeated & insecure body language/emotions of marcus), it makes me ask these ?'s...
    1. does their coach say anything about these issues?
    2. have they addressed these issues among themselves during training, ever?
    3. do they think it is an issue at all?
    4. if they think it's a problem what do they believe will help fix it,
    5. and what are they actually doing to fix it? admitting to it during an interview means nothing if nothing changes.
    simply training more and training harder never cures the personal inner mental aspect. they already possess the physical technique and skills but it takes a brain to trigger & fuse it into one. i certainly hope they understand that.

    i can only assume they don't talk about it or may not realize these apparent problems exist because nothing has changed. nothing. it is a clear cut pattern of behavior. if they do talk about it and, from a spectators point of view, nothing changes, well, then i can only surmise they are incapable of changing the mental part of their game.

    or, maybe being able to beat everybody else except endo/watanabe is enough for them and they don't care. time will tell.
    quite a few top pairs never touch hands between every point, or seem to be worried about their partners emotions. quick example is md inoue/kaneko from japan. highest ranking was #7. they merely went about their business. never high fived after an important win, touched hands between points, smiled at each other. boe/moe were also very business like.
     
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  11. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Goes to show how avery aspect of an athlete is crucial at this level. Be it physical, technical, emotional or mental.

    Good post.
     
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  12. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    Well, would appreciate you could post here should you come across any information on Li Mao's comments regarding the game.
     
  13. wade

    wade Regular Member

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    Play at most 5 shots every rally ? you sure about that ? you should watch the match between ahsan/hendra vs yuta/endo that being shared by @ant01 , ahsan/hendra need to work hard too you know :D

    I guess the match between them today will depend on yuta/endo's performance. If they play well like in new zealand open final then we would probably see a great match again, if not then i expect an easy win for ahsan/hendra like in the last 2 matches.
     
  14. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    I don't see anything wrong with the body language of Kevin. Annoyed? Frustrated? If you are in distraught and your partner can't do anything, wouldn't you be? He was more annoyed and frustrated because the plan he tried or anything the coach suggested to him didn't work rather than toward his partner. The coach told him and asked him specifically to take more chances and think of some way to get involved. He kept turning away looking at the coach as he always gave instructions. Marcus wasn't really afraid of Kevin getting angry. He was just living in his own world of destruction and no idea why he had done nothing to get out of there. Letting Kevin do most of the work and the thinking. I had never seen Marcus looking at the coach asking of what to do during the match except the coach giving him the lecture during the intervals.

    I think they should realise by now (or probably more urgently) that is becoming an issue because it has happened before in big events (WC to be precise), and now against the pair that somehow successfully traumatised Marcus that he became nervous and made his mind blank during a match. Couldn't even hold his racket right.

    Without any coach, I can see Kevin is being fully supportive to his partner and they communicate a lot between rallies and between games. The most apparent one was in China Open final. Marcus obviously had something in his mind in the first two games, and Kevin was repeatedly talking to him and showing some gesture to calm his partner down. Only in G3 they finally decided to being more vocal, verbally celebrating every single point they made. And that somehow put Marcus back into the game and they managed to win the match. Yay? Maybe not, guess what people said about that afterward? They were being disrespectful toward (injured) seniors.

    Anyway I think this thing with Marcus is not something that can be work out with having a attentive and loving partner. No idea how they will address or fix this. But judging how frustrated Kevin looked yesterday in the match, seems like they really wanted to win this. But can they fix it? This is even more difficult than training a dog to hold a badminton racket..
     
  15. ngkt67

    ngkt67 Regular Member

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    well at least they still best pair in the world today compared to long time ago Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong...
     
  16. S Chandrasekhar

    S Chandrasekhar Regular Member

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    Loosing against Yuta/Watanabe is one thing, but the main cause of concern is getting hammered match after match. I have seen them loose 21-3,21-10,21-11,21-10, so many times. For all the showy display he puts i am not sure if Kevin has the guts to defeat any pair consistently like that. Tata Kevin, sleep well back home at "ENDO-NESIAAAAAAAA" :)

    Defeating opponents by a margin of 1 or 2 and showing all the funny antiques :D :D Where are your showy acts against Japanese? Kevin is a real looser. If he seriously likes fast play why do they bore Kam/Son out? Kevin/Gideon don't even like to play fast against Kam/Son for they are afraid that against Japanese their speed is nothing :) :)

    Perhaps time for Kevin learn some behaviour stuff from Endo and Setiawan. Absolutely calm and composed at high pressure situations. Their behaviour absolutely seeps in and partners seems to enjoy their presence during high pressure matches.
     
    #716 S Chandrasekhar, Dec 14, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  17. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Pfft.. Kevin got hammered? Didn't you watch how Kevin single-handedly take one game off Endo/Wata?
    He doesn't need any partner to win the match
     
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  18. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Not the loss but the manner they lost because they still lose in Rubber, maybe the last time they lost in straight is against Fajri, so the manner is what is concerning.

    I think they need shock therapy and put themselves in LiLiu & AhsanHendra shoes o name a few pairs (2-11) & 2-9 H2H against them. especially to LiLiu shoe since its the same gen.
     
  19. Baddyforall

    Baddyforall Regular Member

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    Wow. Fanboys at their best .
     
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  20. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Thank you.

    He specifically mentioned Kevin not minions.
     

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