HSBC-BWF WORLD Tour Finals 2020 : Group Stage-Final (27-31 January 2021)

Discussion in '2021 Tournaments' started by CLELY, Jan 25, 2021.

  1. vozer here

    vozer here Regular Member

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    4x14+1x11 cos western dont like the number 13. Obviosly that's why they never mentioned 5x13 instead of 5x11.
     
  2. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    the 2nd streak is 28. you have to win 6 matches in a wc.

    the first streak is actually 39. you forgot to count qualifying rounds. his first 25+ wins came from 1 i-series, 2 i-challengers & 1 wt 100. i'd give this first streak an *asterisk. we're talking about a world ranked #2 player (pre-suspension) still far from his peak entering those tournaments hunting for points during his comeback mission. it isn't exactly something momota would count as an important part of his legacy. :rolleyes:
     
    #342 samkool, Jan 31, 2021
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  3. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    should be 1. the problem is there's no fixed # of warnings in the rules. too many rules are based on 'umpire discretion' :rolleyes:
    you misspelled incompetent & spineless. the referee should have stepped in. oh wait... we can't expect bwf to take charge of something concerning a blatant disregard of 'undue delay of game' rules. my bad.
     
    #343 samkool, Jan 31, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
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  4. Cunning Linguist

    Cunning Linguist Regular Member

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    Steen has made a nice recap of the tournament on his Youtube channel.

     
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  5. Martynas

    Martynas Regular Member

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    Gill/Mortens comentary during VA/AA match was so awful, so biased, why can not player have tactics and match plan, why start implying that he is breaking rules and should be punished? and on the whole it seems that only VA lost his match and no credit whatsoever to AA for being more calm and more precise when it mattered the most. And Anders will beat Victor any time because VA is just too mentally unstable.
     
  6. Father Parrot

    Father Parrot Regular Member

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    Yeah she was quite biased towards Victor (as per usual) and she did question Antonsen's throw at the second set but Morton was neutral and instantly recognised Anderson's game plan. Since "a player has gotta give their best effort" she brought up an interesting question on whether a player has got to play their best effort in each game or to win the match. Morton corrected her that it was the latter, "You cannot say you're not giving you're best if there is an aim to it in trying to win at the very end". I agree that they could've given Antonson more credit when due.
     
    #346 Father Parrot, Jan 31, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
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  7. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    for screaming, no. for delaying, yes. the referee is also to blame for not enforcing the rules.

    since screaming isn't against the rules we have no choice but to live with it. imagine badminton banning screaming from everybody at all times. it would feel like a very very different game for the spectators.

    should screaming be regulated? if so how do you determine the acceptable volume or pitch? a courtside decibel meter? impose a limit to the # of screams per game? (hawk-ear anyone?) what about umpire discretion? we see what umpire discretion brings to the table: spineless officiating in the past (old service rules) and present (undue delays).

    what is your solution to the screaming?

    all the screaming seems to bother some fans more than the athletes. i have never seen any professional badminton player, live or on video, approach an umpire about their opponents screaming. if it doesn't bother the players i don't see it as a problem. at least badminton players don't scream on every stroke like tennis.
     
    #347 samkool, Jan 31, 2021
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  8. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    ws final game 3: speed, skills, drama... wow!
     
  9. magnumcyclonex

    magnumcyclonex Regular Member

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    Regarding the MS Finals (copied from Reddit):

    I watched the match live and had the same takeaway as many of you did. I can understand both sides' of "putting in best effort" as Gill lamented and Morton explained.

    As an athlete, the goal is to win the match. How it is done within the bounds of the rules of the sport is not stipulated, which is the realm where players employ all sorts of antics/behaviors etc. to disrupt their opponents and achieve their goal of winning, otherwise known as tactics.

    In my opinion, the umpire should call on players to continue play at a reasonable pace, and ensure players are not "slow-playing" or creating unfair advantages, or engaging in unsportsman/unsportswoman like conduct to gain illicit advantages in what is supposed to be a fair match.

    It was so obvious Antonsen tanked the second game to conserve energy. He employed a single strategy that Axelsen did not break. Axelsen, who is fitter, should have played longer rallies to out gas Antonsen. Did he not watch the Antonsen-Vittinghus match? Did Antonsen purposely tank the past 2 Thai tournaments to take the WT Finals win, and blame it on Covid? Has Antonsen fully recovered and figured out the best way to crack Axelsen? Did you notice after the umpire asked Antonsen if he was unwell, and needed to give his best effort, Antonsen played at a higher level for a few more points?

    Axelsen demostrated shards of his former self. Visible disappointment, inability to play commanding rallies, set up for winning shots but not actually finishing them!. Towards the end, he was playing it too safe, and playing "not to lose". He got mentally frustrated and broke down. I don't think these two will have a healthy teammate friendship moving forward.

    As for me as the viewer, and as a club player, I can totally understand if I cannot catch up from being behind in game 2 after taking game 1. Game 3 will be there for the true and final showdown. But, watching it was very lackluster, and this being a WT Finals, it was definitely NOT in the spirit of badminton that Gill was alluding to. How does a governing body like BWF, move forward from this when wanting to attract new viewers, sponsors etc.? How do we define actually putting in effort vs. playing smart and well based on the conditions present? There is no correct answer because it is a murky grey area.

    Regarding the tanking, it was "too obvious" and yes, we are putting our own bar/standard of what we consider to be being competitive. My logic side agrees with Morton, but my heart side agrees with Gill. There are better actors/actresses out there and I am sure Antonsen could have played harder up to at least 10-11 points before "letting the game slip away".

    Axelsen needs to decompress and work out a new strategy. He got beat, bad. He needs to figure out there's more than one style of play he can employ and adapt on the fly because Antonsen read him like a book, but he couldn't always do the same in return, despite being teammates. Even as a club player, there are things you withhold or unleash on players you frequently play with when they least suspect it in order to keep them guessing/thrown off. I think it's also commendable to reach 3 finals in 3 weeks and win 2 of them. Antonsen has had the benefit of being better rested due to early/earlier crash outs and the "illusion" of being held back by Covid (I mean yes its bad to get it), has by now almost nearly worn off, given Antonsen's physical abilities in games 1 and 3.

    So anyways, I'm disappointed the WT MS Finals was not a full on battle each point all the way through. but I do understand both sides. Just not sure if BWF appreciates such a performance in what is supposed to be their grand final event.
     
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  10. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Marin screaming isnt even that loud anymore. what about the Korea girls scream?

    delayed servings when the shuttle already in your hand is really bad because opponents take 100% to wait for your serve., its not even timewasting. much worst than that. if you were the opponents, will you like at the end of it. ask yourself. and Marin timewasting is some bags of tricks but not really all that bad.

    it was discussed by the commentator in 1 of choi match.. against ivanov sozonov i think.
     
  11. magnumcyclonex

    magnumcyclonex Regular Member

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    Oh yeah, another topic is the screaming and the "war cries" players make when getting ready before a serve, or winning a point. It's often way too loud and kind of stupid when it's over the top. The fact that more and more players are doing it these days across multiple disciplines is just sad and unnecessary. Yeah, an exclamation to get amped up should be find, but when the db levels go to ear shattering levels, then we have an issue.
     
  12. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    • would you add a rule to regulate it?
    • what would the guidelines be?
    • how would the rule be enforced?
     
  13. terrynguyen121988

    terrynguyen121988 Regular Member

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    throw away the second game if you are not lucky and your opponents was leading too much.

    It's not just Victor and Axelsen, it's can be Dechapol/Sapsiree and Ahsan/Setiwan (If they win the first game).

    Players can use this valid tactic unless we have a different point system.
    bfgdfgdfgdfgaad.png
     
  14. magnumcyclonex

    magnumcyclonex Regular Member

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    I don't know exactly how the rule should be written that would not impose on freedom of expression for athletes. We're thankful we don't have celebrations that are not related to sports (e.g. just take a look at some American athletes when they celebrate something and make it a bigger message than just relating it to the sport itself).

    But, if Wimbledon can impose an all white attire for its athletes, then surely the BWF can come up with something like a guidance and warning system when players get excessively loud.

    As far as enforcing it, with crowds, it'd be a bit harder to distinguish how much sound comes from the players vs the audience (which can also be overly rowdy (so I'm glad it's been more quiet during the past few events)). I really don't know.
     
  15. CLELY

    CLELY Regular Member

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    So BWF World Tour 2020 season is practically has been concluded when HSBC BWF World Tour Finals found closing curtain yesterday.
    Looking forward to the latest update of BWF World Ranking tomorrow...
     
  16. CLELY

    CLELY Regular Member

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    The most exciting part in final day also MS deciding game as well.
     
  17. Hbmao

    Hbmao Regular Member

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    Well we do have unsportsmanlike conduct penalty in (American) football for excessive celebration: )
     
  18. dr_strange

    dr_strange New Member

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    Yet another blind Marin fan who doesn't recognize bad in court manners of Marin.
     
  19. badminton10

    badminton10 New Member

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    ....
     
    #359 badminton10, Jan 31, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  20. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

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    all these comments on screaming...

    kudos to the tv ppl for setting up such good audio capture! :D
     
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