HSBC-BWF WORLD Tour Finals 2020 : Group Stage-Final (27-31 January 2021)

Discussion in '2021 Tournaments' started by CLELY, Jan 25, 2021.

  1. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes Received:
    1,325
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next world tour tournament
    what about players that scream/grunt while smashing?

    in the video saina let out a scream because she thought she had a winner. she didn't think carolina would get the shuttle. it was obvious to me saina wasn't screaming to purposely distract carolina. gill had it wrong. it's a non-issue.

    every great drama requires a great villain.
     
    #381 samkool, Feb 1, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  2. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes Received:
    1,325
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next world tour tournament
    they will need to logically justify the volume limit.
    • what would the max volume be?
    • do you adjust the volume limit based on the size of the arena?
    • how do you determine the proper location of the mic? i can see players adapting and scream in the opposite direction.
    • would you use multiple mics? if so how many?
    • how about tuning the mics to only pick up a certain range of frequency? or only output that certain frequency range for broadcast?
    • or maybe each end user could somehow program their own system to filter out certain frequencies.
    • or maybe each end user could anticipate a loud scream coming and hit their mute button for a few seconds.
    i'm spitting out these ideas because if there is truly & desperately a need to curb screaming to the extent a rule in necessary it needs to be written as specific as possible to avoid the appearance of arbitrary enforcement.

    mics are the reason why you hear it much louder at home in a broadcast. it goes into the mic and becomes focused 100% from your speakers/headphones thereby magnifying its presence. you know the saying about sports being very different if watching it live? scream in your living room, then do the same scream in an arena. so, what did it sound like?
    yup. i don't see anyone complaining about male screaming on this forum.
     
    pp35 and LenaicM like this.
  3. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    St Helens, UK
    Wow - that XD was well worth the wait! I wish the rubber had lasted a bit longer, but that Thai pair were unstoppable.
     
  4. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    St Helens, UK
    Find me a guy who screams as loudly and as frequently as Marin and he'll get the same treatment from me.

    And I mean a full-throated roar after each and every won point.
     
    #384 Mark A, Feb 1, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
    whatAHassle likes this.
  5. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    St Helens, UK
    There's a difference between sounds of exertion, and not.

    You scream while you're having a baby, not after.
     
    whatAHassle likes this.
  6. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    St Helens, UK
    Couldn't agree more.

    She reminds me a lot of Liliyana, but there are flashes of the defence and hand-skills (and willingness to dive) of Watanabe.The fact that she hits hard enough for them to be able to play her at the back - coupled with Dechapol's ludicrous speed - makes then both dangerous and great to watch, IMO.
     
    Martynas likes this.
  7. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes Received:
    1,325
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next world tour tournament
    sort of. what about women's tennis? imagine if badminton became similar. high pitched 'exerting' on every stroke which drew complaints from fans and players, but not so much anymore because we're used to it and expect it and morre tennis players are doing it. i'm not ruling out the possibility it makes its way to badminton. in any case how do you put the genie back in the bottle?
    you sure about that? my mother kept screaming at me for the first 18 years of my life.
     
    Dangho likes this.
  8. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    5,708
    Likes Received:
    883
    Location:
    Singapore
    Its Rankings day! where will Axelsen points stand? Wonder if it will be less than 10k difference.
     
  9. vozer here

    vozer here Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    304
    Location:
    hanoi
    every. Find me a match like that
     
  10. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,840
    Likes Received:
    120
    Occupation:
    Chief Coach. The best and still active.
    Location:
    www.extreme-power.org or xtremexn.blogspot.com
    Taiwanese md and Thai xd did well to hit hattrick. Well done. ;)
     
  11. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    5,708
    Likes Received:
    883
    Location:
    Singapore
    The double points instead of double chance system is not good for Momota and other WR 1s. Had Axelsen played DO , he will be v close to Momota and imo, it shouldnt be that way.
     
  12. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,184
    Likes Received:
    1,454
    Location:
    Germany
    Idk what the usual noise levels are. For a good value, they should measure normally occurring ones anyway to avoid going too far either way. 96dB might be a good starting point (Sharapova is reported to have screamed at 101.6dB).

    To make it failsafe against loud arenas, it should only 'warn' the umpire if the scream was a certain threshold above ambient noise (1 standard deviation of bg noise variability should be enough) and/or if the frequency was narrow (crowd noise has a diffuse frequency spectrum because it's generated by so many different people).

    Would be harder to nail down than in Tennis for sure since crowds see no problem screaming during the point here and there's multiple courts most of the week so there's considerably more background noise...
    It might be possible this would be next to useless in Indonesia, given how insanely, annoyingly loud the crowd there is
     
    samkool likes this.
  13. Bardie

    Bardie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    95
    Location:
    Europe
    Just see it from the other point of view. We all know that he was the superlative player in 2019 and probably would have won gold in Tokyo 2020 too. And he has had a lot of bad luck, accident, so no All England, Covid etc. But he is still number 1 in the world rankings, although he has not played a tournament for over a year. Even if you see the "Race to Tokyo 2021" it is not entirely fair in my eyes. In practice he is already qualified for the Olympics due to all the rule changes, even if he shouldn't play a tournament until the Olympics. This means that he could play in Tokyo even though he would not have played a tournament for over 20 months. I know that the whole corona situation makes it difficult, but fair to other players looks different.
     
    LenaicM and samkool like this.
  14. Martynas

    Martynas Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    court
    Yea their combination when she is at the back and Dechapol is in front almost as lethal as in opposite combination, so yes very fascinating to watch, and Liliyana could not do it, especially after acl trauma, but still Liliyana's net and reading the game is still not surpassed in any way and that is not happening in the near future
     
  15. Martynas

    Martynas Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    court
    usually she shouts loader (with at least three/for shouts) after her opponents looses the point/makes mistake, rather then her winning the point, tactics at its best :)
     
    whatAHassle likes this.
  16. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes Received:
    1,325
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next world tour tournament
    very logical points you bring up.
    ...which could make consistent enforcement a problem.

    'i scream the same every time & everywhere so why are you penalizing me in arena a & b, but not c? why did i get penalized in rd 1 & 2 but not in the quarter finals?' now the umpire has to assume an opponent is bothered by it in arena a & b, but not c...? rd 1 & 2, but not the quarters?

    should the athletes have to concern themselves with an arena's fluctuating background noise levels throughout the tournament due to varying attendance levels and the varying degrees of the spectator's enthusiasm based on the action of all courts?

    the potential for inconsistent enforcement seems high.
     
    LenaicM likes this.
  17. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    St Helens, UK
    The crowd are mostly silent during tennis points - I think this amplifies the "exerting".
     
  18. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    St Helens, UK
    Yeh... celebrating an opponent's unforced error is frowned upon even in the scrubber league I used to play in.

    If you win a forty-shotter with an absolute worldie, by all means... but if your opponent serves into the net? Come on.
     
    whatAHassle, pp35, samkool and 2 others like this.
  19. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    St Helens, UK
    I'm looking up matches between these two and Wata/Hig - another combination with a powerful girl (who has a jump smash, in fact) that they're not afraid to leave at the back.
     
  20. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,184
    Likes Received:
    1,454
    Location:
    Germany
    What exactly is your problem?

    Fluctuating background noise makes the measurement less precise. I proposed a rule with a max. acceptable noise level, if the crowd drowns you out when you're excessive, you got lucky. Same as getting away with anything that the umpires don't spot. That doesn't make the enforcement less consistent, you're simply constricted by the measurement being less precise. Since extremely noisy events are rather the exception than the norm, this shouldn't create a feeling of inconsistency.
    Some athletes are bothered by the crowd in Istoria (remember BoMo?), but citing that as a reason players should also be allowed to be as obnoxious as they want elsewhere is backwards logic. The question is if you want to do something about the crowd there (the BWF never will, so this is 100% hypothetical).
    In Tennis, umpires at least try to control boorish crowds (although they're sometimes unable to), in badminton it's simply accepted because the BWF is afraid they'll lose some of them if they enforced some decorum. Whether you want noise during rallies is subjective, you can see it either as unnecessary distraction or as added excitement, but consistent and loud booing of players is boorish and should be managed by umpires/tournament organizers (as it is in Tennis). No hope on my part though, BWF is pretty clear about never ever daring to offend any of the 'big' crowds regardless of circumstances.
    Iirc they even went so far as to inconvenience all athletes by scheduling matches around some religious event a few years back, causing matches to go into the early morning hours....
     
    samkool likes this.

Share This Page