I feel I have a lot to work on, but where should I start first?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by precrime3, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    87
    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Bangkok
    Yeah 1200 is the 2 hours physicla training in morning and 3 hours group sessions 6 days a week.

    And you can watch this for a daily schedule of my life

     
    returntobadmin likes this.
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    21,386
    Likes Received:
    3,075
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    I think it can be trained to some extent but the current training program only uses practice games to train this. Private lessons and really dissecting techniques properly would help a lot. Then you can understand more clearly what shots can or cannot be played in certain situations.

    Looking at the practice games, one thing that is quite a disadvantage is the pace of footwork. There is little change of rhythm off the base position to try and get the shuttle early. By increasing the first and second step speed, the shuttle can be taken earlier giving more options to play different shots. I think the leg strength is there but it’s for the coach to help activate the speed and awareness of how to change the rhythm and pace of steps.
     
    Ballschubser likes this.
  3. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Germany
    I think there are two types of anticipation. One is valid in a situational context, e.g. the weak backhand return. To anticipate this, you don't need to observe the player or the racket, but the situation that he needs to pick the shuttle deep into his backhand corner is often enough to expect a weak return to the front court. This can be learned, but is of limited use. E.g. in my club are serveral >60yo who are able to play a long or even crosscourt backhand clear. Eventually this is more of a habit observation of an individual opponent and therefor hard to train, because each individual player has other habits.

    The second type is by observing the player and his racket. This is, I think, the real skill. It is much like muscle memory, but on a visual trigger side. Certain movement pattern of our opponent and his racket will just trigger 'well, he will play a drop' and you will take a step forward before he hit the shuttle. I think most of us do this, you can check it when your opponent suddenly play a very deceptive lift and you got stuck in a forward movement. I believe that you can only learn this by practise, much like muscle memory, there's no real short cut.
     
    precrime3 likes this.
  4. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    87
    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Bangkok
    Another update

    Renewed the visa today - so am confirmed to stay here until 8/26.

    They also clarified special tourist visas and corona visa extensions - I brought the BTY school representative with me so there was no english translation errors as they spoke to her in thai and then she communicated to me. But basically...

    When I come back to renew in August, I should be able to get another 60 days. If I am somehow able to get the special tourist visa, not sure what that is btw, it'll be 90 days. So possibly can stay here either end of October or november!

    If they decide to extend the program for corona, I should be able to get another 60 days off of that so maybe until end of 2021... but let's not count chickens before they hatch.

    For time being, 8/26. And hopefully they allow more time after that, because if not I'll have to scramble to get plane tickets the last few days I'm here lol
     
    Cheung likes this.
  5. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    135
    Location:
    London
    Sorry to @precrime3 if this is a little off topic.

    Anticipation can be an extension of good smooth footwork, pushing your level even higher. But it can also be a crutch to compensate for poor footwork. An over reliance on it can create some problems, especially if the opponent has some deceptions in their arsenal.

    I've seen an interesting triangle match-up at the previous club I played at where player A always beats player B, player B always beats player C and player C always beats player A. If you asked a coach, he would say player A was the best player; best technique, cleanest footwork. Player B was an older player; less fit, less consistent in longer rallies, but compensates well with deceptive play and tactical vision. Player C was a younger player; less refined technique and footwork than player A, but more explosive and a more aggressive playstyle.

    Player A beats player B, because of his superior technique, footwork and fitness. He is fast and technically skilled enough to deal with the deceptions.

    Player C beats player A, because despite his relatively rougher footwork, he can play at a higher pace than player A. Part of this is due his explosive edge, but also a significant part is because of anticipation. This is only possible because Player A relies on his consistency and fitness to win games and therefore all his shots are fairly straight-forward and predictable.

    You can see where I am going with this. Sometimes, player B absolutely wipes the floor with player C. Player C naturally anticipates a lot. This is something he has developed simply by playing a lot. He did this before he even heard of the word anticipation. It is difficult for him not to commit to where he thinks the shuttle is going to go, because 9 times out of 10, he is right. This is a problem against Player B, because his skillful deception turns Player C's strength into a weakness. Either Player C loses points outright to the deceptions, or he burns out his stamina trying to deal with it.

    I think anticipation is something that comes from playing many many many matches. But only when technique and footwork is developed to a point where it is effective, and subconscious. If you have to concentrate on your own technique to play well, you are less focused on your opponents game. Anticipation develops faster if you can focus on what the opponent is doing, and what the opponent wants to do in the rallies.

    I don't know if any specific training would me more effective at training anticipation than simply playing matches. I'm also not sure of consciously studying specific movements of the opponent helps to improve anticipation, since anticipation itself isn't entirely conscious either. Disclaimer: I could be completely wrong here.

    Whether it's trainable or not, I think badminton has many aspects that deserve priority over anticipation. I think @precrime3 would benefit far more from focusing on footwork and shot technique. Training at a slow pace to focus on precision of movements, and then faster to get better at playing under pressure.

    (Player C has improved at adapting to his opponents, but playing against players with good deceptions is still a nightmare for him. yes I am player C ;)).
     
    visor and Ballschubser like this.
  6. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    87
    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Bangkok
    Why Are My Cross Smashes So Bad?

    We did a but of reps of like a drill where you:
    - Get ball lifted to you
    - Cross smash
    - Net the reply by person on defense
    - They lift again and cycle repeats

    And like all ofmy shots would hit the net. I'm not sure why because my straight smash is pretty good. I guess I feel like uncertain to hit the shuttle squarely on if it's cross? Or is there supposed to be al ittle slice? Or perhaps I need to get more behind the shot? Some people have said I need to hit higher on a cross shot than a straight as there's more distance it has to travel before net - and I did notice when I jumped for a cross they would usually go over with good quality. Anyways, any help on this as I think these are definitely my weakest shot

     
  7. Smash the net

    Smash the net Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Singapore
    I think when they say hit higher they mean don't hit it as steep.
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    21,386
    Likes Received:
    3,075
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Have you got a time stamp? And is it forehand to forehand or round the head to cross court which has more problems?
     
    speCulatius likes this.
  9. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    135
    Location:
    London
    No slice, you want it to feel as solid as any other smash.
    Yes, you are sometimes too late to get under the shuttle in time.
    Yes, cross smashes need to be less steep, otherwise they will go in the net.
    No, you can't hit the shuttle higher for a cross smash, because you should be hitting the shuttle as high as you comfortably can on a straight smash already.

    So to pass the net, you just have to smash a little flatter.

    As for the lack of power:

    In the exercise it looks like your body tends to be angled/positioned to hit a straight smash, while you use your shoulder to change the direction of the shot into a cross smash. By not using your body rotation optimally, you are not using the full chain of power.

    A cross smash is essentially the same as a straight smash. With a straight smash, you are oriented straight forward (because that's where your shot is going). All you have to do for the cross smash is orient your body in the direction of your intended shot. So your whole body will be turned slightly before you even initiate the shot. The only difference is that a cross smash can't be as steep, because there is more distance between your hitting point and the net compared to if you play a straight smash.

    It also looks like that was a long training session, and you seem fatigued, which affected your technique, and your ability to move into position fast enough.
     
    #289 SnowWhite, Jul 24, 2021 at 2:42 AM
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021 at 2:48 AM
  10. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    87
    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Bangkok
    This was super helpful snowshite, ty! Will keep this in consideration. ANd I see, so can't smash as steep so it needs to be faster and well positioned. And preferably jump - this would also fix me being out of position as I only jump when in good position or try to.

    Thank you so much!
     
  11. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    87
    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Bangkok
    Watch the video link I put, that's timestamped to start onthe cross court smash drills. I think I have more problems crossing from forehand corner to their backhand corner (my back right to their left)
     
  12. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    135
    Location:
    London
    No problem!:D

    Jumping helps if you have the time (of course it helps with straight smashes too).

    Cross smashes are inherently more risky, because they travel a longer distance, which gives the opponent slightly more time. You are also less well positioned to cover straight returns. So cross smashes should be used sparingly; to exploit the gap if the opponent is out of position or as a surprise variation.

    This also means that if you decide to cross smash when you're already out of position yourself, it has to be a winner, because if the opponent gets it back you probably lose that point. Better to clear it if you're out of position.

    edit: Sorry, I don't want to overload you with information. For now it's probably best to focus on the technique.
     
  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    21,386
    Likes Received:
    3,075
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    sometimes you are still going backwards when you hit the shuttle. Try to go backwards faster and arrive at the right position on court, hold and then start the stroke.

    Other times you get to the right position early enough. You forget to go up to the shuttle to hit it. Try jumping up slightly to meet the shuttle with a slight hang in the air.
     
  14. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    87
    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Bangkok
    No problem. this isn't new information for me. For the longest time, and still now I only ever played straight shots because I know my footwork and stamina are both really low and didn't want to cover the cross. Only sparingly do I play cross nets.

    Can't overload me, just keep giving me information and if it's too much I'll just ignore it lol
     
    SnowWhite likes this.
  15. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    87
    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Bangkok
    Yeah I see I gotcha. So consistency issues haha
     
  16. returntobadmin

    returntobadmin New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2021
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Oslo
    Interesting.

    How's the dorm there and how many were sharing ? I might interested to come for the training, still considering though.
    Meals are included right ?
     
  17. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Germany
    I watched your 7 25 21 video (first single) and as you said that you dont get much or any tactical advices I will give you some points you might check yourself or with one of your coaches.

    1. First off, your smash is really good, but... your smash seldomly results in an advantage for you, often even in a disadvantage. For one you need to think of a smash like a boomerang. If you hit it hard, it could result in a very fast response and this response will put you under pressure. It is often seen in your video, you smash, the boy cross-block, you are under pressure, not your opponent. And being under pressure means making more errors. Example:



    So, a good smash is atleast 50% power and 50% placement. If you increase the power, you need to increase the placement accordingly.
    In other words, a dangerous smash is the one which bypass the opponents potential racket position as soon as possible or when your opponent has difficulties to reach it. So a really powerful, but deep smash is not as dangerous as a steep stick or half smash. This is about the steepness of a smash. The other point is about the placement, you need to place the smash so, that your opponent has difficulties to reach it, resulting in a weak response. E.g. smashing the high serve is not the best idea at your level. Your opponent will be in a stable position right after his serve, so you need to hit really close to the lines to get a benefit, but at your level you shouldn't aim at the lines yet. So, basically use a drop/clear to move your opponent from the center and smash to the gap afterwards, or save your power. Badminton, once the pace goes up, is much like a resources management game, and in singles you will consume a lot of resources when smahing, so use it wisely.

    2. Center position. Your center position is quite far forward from what I see (thought the camera might give only the illusion?). Already when doing a serve, you serve close to the service line and going right into the base position without taking a step back. From there you will not have any issues to cover the frontcourt, because you almost stand on the service line, but the backcourt is quite open. Example:



    Once you play vs someone who is able to consistenly play deep clears/lifts, you will be in a lot more trouble.Taking a shuttle in the backcourt is often harder than taking it at the frontcourt, the reason is, that you need to get behind the shuttle while being upward vs you can lunge and stretch to reach a frontcourt shuttle.I would sugguest to trying out shifting your serve/receiver position by atleast half a meter backward or talking to a coach about your central position.
     
    visor likes this.
  18. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    87
    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Bangkok
    Thank you! However my mentality here was that I only full smash when there really isn't much to lose- at this point it was 20-19 of the last game so I was wanting to go full explosive and put it all on the line. I do agree it's also placement - and I didn't do any deception. WHen I committed to a jump I usually smashed. I think I could've won the point there with a drop or cross drop.

    You are correct here. In service situation I am quite forward but I don't think it's a problem tactically. If it does I usually take a step back - but I often change my service position depending on the player in singles. IF they play lots of flat lifts or keep sending over my shoulder I take a step back. If they keep catching me off guard with nets - I take a step forward. I think the biggest issue here actually is the lack of a split step on the service return. If I can fix this habit it should allow me to find a more central position and be able to cover both
     
  19. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Germany
    Therefor it is a nice example (you did more of these smashes in the first match), it is not about you struggling to reach the return, but it is your opponent having no issues returning your explosive smash. I'm telling you that, because I have started same way. When I got a mid high serve, I tried to smash it, but many lost points later and some research showed me, that it is just a bad idea to smash at someone who is in a stable position, which is the case right after he served. Just keep this in mind and when you smash the high serve try to evaluate it, does it work ? Why/why not ? Does it put your opponent under pressure ? Why/ why not ? Does the return put you under pressure.... I do it now too, from time to time and almost always regret it afterwards, it is hard to get rid of bad habits :D

    This will change when you advance. The game will get a lot flatter, a lot more attacking clears, a lot faster, on the other side you will anticipate netshots/drops a lot better and you will cover the frontcourt a lot better. The central position is indeed not static, but I believe you would benefit from take a step backard. Just be careful that a temporary solution to a current issue (being too far forward to cover the frontcourt) don't get a bad habit you need to get rid off once you get better.
     
  20. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Germany
    One last note after watching your 7 24 21 video. The girl you are playing with is your mix partner (GF?) ? She is struggling with shuttle contacts, better said, she is starving more or less. She needs a lot more shuttle contacts to get more confidence and practise in hitting the shuttle. Your mix setup were almost exclusivily an attacking formation (80% of shots are played by you) and when you play singles vs her you smash or play to the gaps. It might be more beneficial if you would support her gaining more shuttle contacts. E.g. if you dont play a competive mixed game, try to play in standard double setup, even if this results in losing a match. When you play a practise single with her, play more to the center. When I started playing badminton (again) three years ago, the others club members did exactly this to help me getting a lot more shuttle contacts and eventually to get back into badminton faster.
     

Share This Page