True. Then again, there are a lot of people who do that.
It’s just a waste of time and money to walk on court like that.
I feel I have a lot to work on, but where should I start first?
- Thread starter precrime3
- Start date
True. Then again, there are a lot of people who do that.
It’s just a waste of time and money to walk on court like that.
visor
Regular Member
Keeping the racket head between the waist and chest level is a good start for defending. And for offense, should be higher than chest.
Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk
well, in the image of greg doing a demonstration, (not sure what video you got that from or what timeframe, you included neither), his racket hand maybe around ear level. (though would have to see him actually hitting a shuttle to see e.g. maybe it wasn't fully prepped yet and he was going to point his arm up a bit more).
and if you see my post #432 showing an image from a game, his racket hand is above neck level, maybe around ear level in that image. (and if I look more when I get some time he might adjust it a bit more before his swing starts)..
Also, I think some people might start with a low racket prep and start their swing earlier..a truly low racket prep, not converted to a high racket prep like I think the TTY one, her elbow was quite low, her arm pointing fairly upright. Others will start with a low racket prep and turn it into a higher racket prep, raising their elbow to a high racket prep position, and then start their swing. The route to the higher racket prep is done sufficiently early And there's maybe different ways of turning a low racket prep into a higher one.. It might be that if the forearm is pointing not so upright, then it's actually not really prepped yet, and they'll point it more upright before they start their swing,
I haven't checked lots but I reckon if their forearm is a bit more horizontal than upright, it's just not yet fully prepared and they make it more towards upright.
You ask for video and timeframes and that's good I agree with that, but show what video and timeframe you got your image from!
There are different paths that the racket can take to get into the racket prep position. I know one guy who if they lifted it, would have his racket low, arm fairly relaxed low and in front, as he went back, but then on his last shuffle or step, he's do a very quick movement moving his racket in a very straight line up and back, to put his racket into the prep position. . Alternatively, somebody could have their racket behind them as they move back, but a bit relaxed with their arm, and then adjust it into proper racket prep position. In that situation somebody could have their racket back and arm a bit horizontal, in a kind of semi-racket prep position, but then adjust it making it a bit more upright. That's not a low racket prep. If somebody is talking and demonstrating, or you looked a bit too early, they might be in a pre racket prep position. So there's a difference between a low racket prep, and what one could call a pre racket prep or path to racket prep or part of the path (their racket takes to) racket prep. . I'm not suggesting you do these things just that you bear them in mind if looking at footage and trying to interpret it.
If you have your racket hand at ear level that's a big improvement to your current below neck level that no pro we've seen thus far does in prep for an overhead. Also if they push from high to high, a punch clear, then you won't ve moving your feet that far on the court, and there'd be no time for a slow or longer more relaxed path to racket overhead prep position!
Last edited:
what about crouching defense? is that an exception and why you wrote "a good start for defending"?
also, when responding to defend against a potential smash, there's the racket position when you or your partner lift it, and the racket position when you respond to the smash, if they smash it.
Whereas in the case of racket position in relation to an overhead shot, there's the racket position the moment before they lift it, then there's where your racket is the moment after they lift it, and the racket position as you move to the shuttle, and the racket position , the racket position the moment before the start the swing / at the start of the swing. So one could just factor in the "at the start of the swing" height, when comparing. But racket position in regard to an overhead is more complex than racket position in responding to defend against a potential smash.
Looking here , same time position as he did his "too low" wrong racket prep.. I don't know if it's just the camera angle but do you think him taking it far behind him while still having his arm high, a lesser mortal might injure their shoulder?
I think with proper racket prep, whether a good low one or a good high one, you hit it where you want to hit it in a reasonably comfortable standard contact point. When the shuttle is far behind and not jumping back to it to hit it more in front then standard contact points are more out to the side and lower. There probably isn't really a textbook swing action for hitting it there far behind and high 'cos it could be a hazard to the shoulder!
He doesn't have the footwork or position to be trying a more relaxed than any pro, racket movement to racket prep, though it doesn't stop players trying it!
I think a lot of the time players are told to "relax" all the time,, then they do relax more and more every time they are told , and then that happens!!
You are absolutely correct that the pros have different paths to playing the overhead. Unfortunately, the path to get there for a learner is not to emulate that straight away because, well, they are amateurs and need to put in the training hours and know what is better or worse.
If you take the example of Precrime, he’s put a lot of hours into badminton. He needs to ask himself the following :
Is he raising his racquet to be more vertical?
Is he raising his hand to ear height before the swing starts?
If not, are these affecting his ability to reach up to the shuttle for a higher hitting point?
Does it affect his ability to play a consistent dropshot?
. I have bolded the important word and would like to add something a little extra for completeness.
Unfortunately, “could” does not mean “will” for many, many players and includes Precrime.
Comes later on. Get a good racquet position is first priority for the OP and will start changing the mindset.
I think most of the technical stuff is has been mentioned before at one point or another in the past. I think Precrime has trained to a higher level before. However, he hasn’t sustained those standards because he’s been comfortable and easily satisfied with beginner to intermediate level changes. I thought he was fine with that
It’s when he wrote he wanted to try for B level then that changes a lot. At present, he’s got the time and resources unlike a lot of people. What’s missing is/was the training attitude, detailed analysis and self criticism and attention to detail over months and years in training. If you don’t focus during training, you definitely won’t be able to get the results.
precrime3
Regular Member
I think Precrime has trained to a higher level before. However, he hasn’t sustained those standards because he’s been comfortable and easily satisfied with beginner to intermediate level changes. I thought he was fine with that
For sure. Especially in Korea. Philippines lower level has made it harder for me to train, as I'm "good enough" to stand out at pretty much any club I go to. But I wanna get better. Thanks @Cheung always
Trying to find players above D level in the Phillipines or almost any country, doesn't sound like it'd be a difficult problem to solve!
Badminton is very popular in the Phillipines.
Maybe the guy that gave you a D grade has some ideas.
No doubt there are clubs that are for intermediate and advanced. Or for many levels of intermediate. And that mix people up. . Start asking coaches in the Phillipines about that.
For sure. Especially in Korea. Philippines lower level has made it harder for me to train, as I'm "good enough" to stand out at pretty much any club I go to. But I wanna get better. Thanks @Cheung always
What grade are the girls on the next court in the beginning of this video?
precrime3
Regular Member
They're from Korea, in here for a week to play with some partner school here IDK> I wish girls here played like that lol. But to entertain you, likely A in PH
They look good and aren’t even playing in the Korean junior tournament that is currently in progress. Perhaps their priority is to their school first.
You mentioned you entered a D tournament before. There must be C grades around.
precrime3
Regular Member
What should the ratio of playing against stronger players to training be? Im thinking of playing badminton socially for 8 weeks (Dec - Jan) as I go through a cutting phase (lose some of this relationship weight) but after that should it still be 4 days training 1 day sparring?
I'm thinking I may be over weighting training and may need to do 3 days of sparring 1 day of training a week for a few weeks... thoughts?
There is what he has to do with his racket, from when the opponent lifts it, and while he moves to the shuttle, to just before he swings, to when he swings, to when he makes contact. And if we isolate what he has to do to just before the swing, there's still a lot going on.
Do you have any video of any player, pro or not, ,and in a game, that is doing exactly what you think that he as a beginner should do?
I think that would help.
I think it'd be good if you did have an example of a player doing it exactly as you think they as a beginner should do it and during a game.
If there is no such example on video on the internet, then maybe that's something badminton coaches should address!
Well, who can emulate a pro really, other than maybe a pro.. It helps to emulate somebody we can see in a game, you got anybody?
It is useful to watch video to see the truth of what people are saying. or to see a visual reality of the visual badminton movements that they are trying to describe.with words. An image alone helps but an image alone doesn't do it justice. Video, images and words together, are great... Video is so important though, especially if you are not physically in front of somebody..
cheung said:
There's different ways to do that.. there's where the elbow is and where the arm is pointing and some different possible angles. Besides moving the racket to that position which is a big part of it that you haven't really addressed and that also could do with video.
I think he should be speaking to a coach he sees in person and ask them to look with him at his racket prep for overheads, and the coach tells him the racket prep they want to see including the route to it, and they work on it. And he can share some of that understanding here.
When I was a beginner I learnt a racket prep that was maybe of the low type, but a good low prep, and a long swing.. so maybe somewhat resembling a TTY style racket prep. from the image (that doesn't mean i'm advising one racket prep over another, or disagreeing with the racket prep you advise). My swing at that time was way better than my footwork and surprised people. Later, I learnt a higher racket prep.. And I could have learnt them the other way around. I always learnt the racket prep that the coach in front of me showed me and liked and prompted me about. Getting good at that racket prep comes from conversations that a thoughtful person has with a thoughtful coach about working on that. precrime is thoughtful enough to engage on a forum, and even video his games, so I would recommend he have thoughtful conversations with a coach or coaches, and see. And share the understanding here.
Maybe he's not engaging (And thoughtfully) in enough 1-1.
Some clubs go for drinks after and some players even have in depth conversations about badminton with other enthusiasts, even at the pub! I had an in depth conversation about badminton with a phillipino friend whose English wasn't good,.. early in my badminton he told me I play in a very robotic way. I worked at trying to figure out what he was talking about.. I worked on figuring out what he meant.. He pointed out another guy and said "look he's like you". and I started to get some better ideas about what he was talking about and later confirmed with him that I was now playing with movements that are less robotic or stiff looking(and it wasn't as simple as "relax" that everybody likes to say). . One can have such conversations with anybody and apply that to having those conversations with a coach too in a 1-1, is crucial.
Last edited:
Mason
Regular Member
What does your off the court weight training look like ?
precrime3
Regular Member
Following badminton insight's programs at the moment. They're brain dead easy and effective enough for me. My physical suits badminton (explosive/hard hitter, just heavy) doubles so I've been getting away with just lifting heavy lol.
Wanting to be proactive for my joints and because asia fat shaming starting to get to me hence the cutting phase in Dec/Jan
Refer to post 109 of this thread on 28 Feb 2020. You already gave me a like.
I posted another reminder of that post a few days ago.
You quoted this post which you gave a reply to. I bolded the relevant part which I think you missed.
At this point, not about me telling him what’s right or not and treating him like complete beginner. He’s had the input and advice already. He has access to a coach. He even does analysis of other people giving them tips on technique. He’s put a lot of time into badminton.
For your further clarification, Precrime needs to push himself to a higher level of self-reflection and self-criticism in order to effect improvement. Precrime is now already aware of this.
At his level and the access to resources that he has, he only needs short and simple reminders on his basic technique. He needs to sort it out the solutions in his environment on effecting change by himself rather than being spoonfed all the time.
He’s not a baby.
He has the ability to think for himself.
He can also ask questions himself for clarification.
@ralphz Your style of teaching is different from mine. It’s fine. I judge what information to give according to the individual and their circumstances. I let them ask if they don’t understand. That’s exactly the point of the forum. Self analysis is very important for the learning process.
FYI, I am not just a badminton player - I have taught and trained undergrad, post grad, higher specialist qualifications, specialist examinations examiner and been instructor for simulation training where split decisions mean life and death. Apologies if I come across as over bearing.
Furthermore, Precrime has to find those C grades to play with. If he can’t find the groups, he’s not good enough in his basic technique to get the invites. One way to get the experience is to enter C grade tournaments, record what’s going on and then do some self analysis. Then he can come back to the forum and check if his own analysis corresponds to the general consensus and what possible solutions there are to get better.
Last edited:
ralphz said:
Cheung" said:
That is an image of him preparing his racket in a problematic way not really reflective of any pro, (or ideal beginner), https://www.badmintoncentral.com/fo...-but-where-should-i-start-first.184410/page-6 and you put a mark very nicely on the image to show where you think his forearm should be pointing. or where his racket shaft should be pointing.. One might be of the view that his elbow should be higher too but anyhow. I like your clarity there, providing an image to illustrate exactly what you meant. The image you provided made what you were saying much clearer. And you also were careful to include the timeframe in that image. It was a very clear image depicting what you were talking about.
And i'm not disagreeing with that.
But that post then isn't exactly what i'm talking about here..eg I mention video rather than image.. among other things..
e.g. I also wrote in relation to where I mentioned recently about video
ralphz said:
Also, I don't think that a video showing what I describe, would be "spoonfeeding". or only applicable to a complete beginner. I think it'd be useful.
And if you are to say well, a pro player isn't the right person to watch for getting the racket into position, well, I think there are arguments for pro players to sometimes being not the most appropriate to watch for technique at a level far below pro level, but then can you point to a video of a player in a game that is getting their racket into position in the manner that you'd like precrime to be doing so? (as in, the path to it too in a way that you like)
And that's more complex than just the point that the moment before the swing starts you want the forearm to be upright. . A video would show a lot more.
And by the way, if a coach were to stand in front of precrime and demonstrate exactly how to prepare the racket exactly how you'd like precrime to do it, with a path you like, i'd say that's useful, I don't know if you'd call that spoonfeeding, I wouldn't. There's a ton of detail in badminton that often gets oversimplified, and seeing what to do is useful.. At any level.
Cheung said:
I agree with what you are saying.. And I don't think anybody is "spoonfeeding" him. Infact a forum is a very adult mode of communication. It requires precision of language and analytical skills and it's not a place for the weak minded. It requires effort and thought and any babies would quit early!
Cheung said:
I don't disagree with that!
As for finding C players to play with when e is D, I think in a club where players mix, it can be possible to get at least one or two games in an evening, with a player a grade better. And those games can be analysed a lot. So I don't quite understand the not finding any..
There are perhaps less issues like that(as in, issues of other players not being good enough) in singles, and he was showing practise of singles a while back. And anyhow.. his partner was returning serves better than he was. And I don't recall his partner doing any dodgy positioning. I've seen some D players in the UK running around like headless chickens. and making it impossible for their partner to play properly!
Last edited:
How many different countries have you played badminton in?
Well, I try not to give personal details online.. not many, but i'm not relevant. I know that that the Phillipines must have a big badminton community, because i've played with many Phillipino players in the UK, one club I played in sometimes was maybe majority Phillipino.. And I got the impression that it's a lot more popular in the Phillipines than in the UK
And google agrees
https://www.statista.com/statistics/899177/badminton-participation-uk/
From 2016-2021, the year with the most was 2017 almost a million people participating in badminton in England. Out of a country of 55 million. So 1/55 people play badminton. That's just under 2% of the population of England playing badminton!
In the Phillipines, https://www.statista.com/statistics/932948/philippines-regular-participation-in-sports-by-type/ It says 10% play badminton regularly.
It’s relevant to your question and understanding because I can individualise the answer better to your understanding.
Statistics are meaningless in the context of local culture and are unnecessary. Badminton is very enjoyable when you visit other countries and play in the local context.
Last edited: