I feel I have a lot to work on, but where should I start first?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by precrime3, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    The Hussein bolt mentality really helps a lot too - neat trick. I will try to get my forearm nearly vertical for racket preparation. Not really sure why at this point, but I'm sure it'll come to me when I do it.
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    You will work out why it helps once you start playing better players who play faster.

    Investing time into getting it correct now will save you a lot of grief in the future.
     
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  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Any new movement where you break a habit will feel awkward at the beginning.
     
  4. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    3/2/20 Update
    My partner finally came back so we were able to do some good old training. My footwork felt sloppy in one particular aspect ( I wasn't doing a scissor kick in my rear court backhand side) but I did feel good on working on the split-step (will discuss in additional notes). Did my standard drills with training racket, as well as keeping what @Cheung had in mind with regards to racket prep. Drives and defense is frustrating, but that's to be expected with a heavier racket.
    Warmup Routine
    Standard, with new addition of couple of minutes with the powerball.

    Training Routine
    Standard - four corners, opposite sides, drives, smashes

    Additional Notes
    I saw a video of Viktor Axelson playing someone and the split-step finally clicked for me. He's a tall player so he's prep jump is very obvious for me. So now I try to time my jump to land right when the opponent hits shuttles. You can see it very obviously in the four corners video. As a result I get to the shuttle faster, but still have to work on getting the timing perfect, and making sure I can recover quickly from times when the rhythm is broken.

    As for racket prep, the imagery of Hussein bolt helps a lot. I was reviewing the footage and my racket is definitely more vertical than horizontal, but I don't think it's all the way there yet. I felt like yesterday I was more after raw power then form and I think that's why I was frustrated because I should've been focused on form.

    Defense when using the training racket is really going to be helpful. It'll help train the wrist and forearm so I can return smashes either fast and flat or just higher and really throw off attackers.

    I want to start working on a specific technique every time I train - for example, this week I focus on doing backhand crosses, slices, or something like that. I'll need to do more self-reflection and see what would be best for my style of badminton - I like to make the court big so I might start with cross nets and drops that are more consistent that are also slower and higher so they land closer to the net.

    Attached is a bonus video from 2/28 of just a doubles match.

    Video Links




     
  5. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I looked at your smash training recording.

    Your preparation is better and can still be much better.

    The Usain Bolt example is helpful but with some alterations.

    A) You have to bring your arm back behind your body more.

    B) your right elbow is too low. It should ideally be just below the level of the right shoulder.

    It also looks like you are not in a good position for a smash. The shuttle should be in front of your right shoulder. You hit the shuttle too far to the right of your body.

    Do some dry swings without the shuttle and record those. See if you can get good form. If you can't do it half decent, then it will be hard to do it properly with good form and a shuttle falling down that you have to hit.
     
    #125 Cheung, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  6. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Looking at the smash training video.

    You are still not showing the racket head . Have you experimented?

    Even with a mobile phone camera, if you are just using one half of a court, like with smash training, you can tip it vertical , sit it on something, and get good height and get the racket head and feet. Or if that's not possible to find something to put it on. then even at times tipping it up to show the racket head missing out the feet. If you can't get both in the video then doing some video showing feet but not racket head, and some showing racket head but not feet.

     
  7. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Got it chief, will do that when I record/train today or tomorrow. I tried doing some dry swings in my room earlier with your suggestions and my shoulder (right) didn't like that... maybe I'm doing it wrong? We will find out later.

    I might have to do some with racket head, some with feet. Or after everyone leaves so I can record super far away haha.
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    It’s the forearm that needs to go behind your body more. You will probably find you need to stretch your pecs more to get that forearm position better.
     
  9. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    technically the forearm is part of the body.. and if you wanted to put your body behind your body you'd perhaps have to chop something off, so perhaps you mean behind the torso, but not just the forearm - also it's the whole arm The upper arm, the elbow. (not sure if wrist or hand is or can be a grey area, e.g. at the very beginning of the prep, if it'd be behind the shoulder.. these two pics might be a little into the stroke and show the entire arm including hand, behind shoulder..). .certainly the bulk of the arm would be.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    these two show more at the start..

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    so bulk of the arm is behind shoulder.. so judging by those two pics above, not sure re wrist and hand though?

    yeah I like this.. I suppose getting a 180 angle between chest and upper arm.. / straight line across chest and upper arm. by opening the chest out..
     
    #129 ralphz, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Technically he already gets his elbow behind his body but his forearm drifts out to the right. He will need to stretch his pectoralis muscles and also externally rotate his arm at the shoulder joint. There are various manoeuvres to help achieve this. We already have the picture with the red line indicating the position of the forearm - OP can’t quite get this correct because of being distracted by concentrating on hitting the shuttle. Therefore we have to take away that distraction to reduce the information input.

    his next step after that would be to have the elbow just below the shoulder height.


    I will await his next video on dry swings before trying to overload him with information. Let’s just get him there step by step as Rome was never built in a day....
     
    #130 Cheung, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  11. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I mentioned way before that better technique will be demonstrated by the women players. I think even you mentioned the whole forearm behind the body (and therefore the hand and wrist) as being strongly reinforced during coaching courses.

    edit: see pictures below


    [​IMG]
     
    #131 Cheung, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  12. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Dry swings video - recorded last night with my phone because apparently I didn't bring my camear lol...
     
  13. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Re the 'dry swings' video you just posted

    a) Literally 6 seconds into the clip it's obvious your forearm is still angled far out to the side.

    When you put your arm there, to practise the ready position of the swing, then turn your head around and look at your arm. And develop an awareness of where your arm is, and how your arm is positioned. What it looks like when it's wrong.

    [​IMG]

    b) this video is much better in that you got the racket head, but then look what you did.. you got good coverage of yourself at the beginning, then you moved and for most of the video your feet aren't in the picture

    [​IMG]

    Can you try to get your feet in with your racket. You can just move a bit more away from the camera like at the beginning.
     
    #133 ralphz, Mar 6, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
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  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    @ralphz

    Nice screenshots.

    @precrime3

    can you get your hand and wrist directly behind your head? Sorry about going about it again - it’s taking many posts to get this important detail correct.

    you can practice in front of a mirror and or get a friend to watch you for feedback
     
    #134 Cheung, Mar 6, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
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  15. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Oh do NOT apologize - you are trying to help. If anything, I should apologize for having to get you to keep bringing it up. I like to think I'm smart but this dense head sometimes is a bit hard to change...

    And you mean hand and wrist directly behind when racket prep right?
     
  16. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    3/6/20 Update
    More a journal style update. NO training or warmup. Just got to play with my old friend, who was my first IRL coach. Would be a B level player. He taught me a lot of my starter stuff but moved away for this semester. Came back today and we played for good old times. He's surprised at my growth, told me what shots surprised him (my drops and how I returned his shots) as well as my explosiveness regarding footwork.

    He told me I needed to relax which is true. I noticed I still am slow when it comes to moving to the back court. For example, during serve if I serve low and he returns a fast flat lift behind me it's a struggle to get it. If I get it, it's always a cross court drop.

    Another weakpoint I noticed is if I'm anticipating a smash and he drops, as well as if I clear and he does a cross court drop.

    One thing at a time though. Racket prep, hand and wrist behind head. Forearm vertical. Thanks for all your help @Cheung and @ralphz
     
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  17. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    I think one reason why you are struggling with it is doing so could end up changing a lot of things, because for example right now, your racket is pointing up..so it all seems fairly natural and intuitive, whereas if your forearm were pointing more upright then your racket might not point up so much and might even point diagonally, and maybe that seems odd to your intuitions..

    for example look at this

    [​IMG]

    See his forearm is very upright but his racket is not pointing vertically in that picture. Note that it's not entirely clear what portion of the swing that guy is in..

    You could try putting your forearm more upright, like that guy. And maybe your racket will point diagonally a bit like that guy, but you would have your forearm more like Cheung is saying to.

    i have heard different things myself about whether it's better if the racket is vertical, and there are many variables. and maybe once your forearm is positioned better, he may suggest an adjustment that might happen to make the racket more vertical.. like once your forearm he may suggest pulling the elbow out more into the line of the torso, that could make the racket more vertical.. we will see..

    There can be fine differences in what people suggest and i'm waiting to see exactly where cheung is going with his suggestion..

    But nobody would disagree with cheung that the forearm should be more upright, so try it even if the racket doesn't point so vertically, and Even if you don't see how you would possibly swing the racket!!

    At the moment your racket swing is a bit swipe like, because of your wrong forearm position and for other reasons too, like even though you are hitting it a bit too wide, you know where your arm is meant to end up

    It may well be that when you make your forearm more upright, you'll be in a completely wrong position, that's fine, just see what he suggests next, he might suggest adjusting your elbow position.

    I don't know whether cheung ultimately has in mind for you to make contact when parallel with the net, or to turn partially. and these things can potentially change some of the dynamics.

    Infact, if you open out your chest, like a yawn, you may find the racket becomes more upright and then the shot may seem more natural to you.

    Also some of what you are doing may be compensating e,g. if you were more as one generally should be like more sideways on and your forearm were upright and your chest were expanded then maybe the racket would be less diagonal..

    I don't know what your unconscious worry is, about getting the forearm more vertical, maybe it's that the racket will point a bit diagonal like that guy in the blue shirt. And I don't know whether cheung would suggest making contact with the shuttle with the racket diagonal or not. And that can depend on contact point.

    Don't worry if when you make your forearm more upright, it looks funny to you. The forearm should be more upright.. You don't even need to try a swing, just try that preparation stage with the forearm more upright, see if cheung suggests any other adjustment to you.

    So even if you have absolutely no idea how you are meant to swing from that position, don't worry, maybe you aren't! There are likely other adjustments you should make. And cheung has other adjustments in mind.

    But try the forearm more upright adjustment, when you pull back. Don't even worry about doing the swing yet.

    You could do a video where you keep trying the racket prepared position. But look at it so you see the forearm is pointing more upright.

    Then see what cheung suggests. I may have a slightly better idea about what his full picture is than you do but I don't know exactly what his full picture is as he hasn't said or outlined exactly yet.

    So just try solely the racket prep with forearm more upright, and see what he suggests next. And this is without swinging.

    What is likely happening at the moment is you are adjusting your forearm to try to get your swing to work. Rather, try to adjust your forearm to what cheung said, more upright. And don't try the swing. Just try that adjustment to the ready position. And await further adjustments.

    And as I said, include both your feet and your racket head in the video (Like you could have in the last video had you stayed the distance from the camera that you were at the start of the video).
     
    #137 ralphz, Mar 7, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
  18. precrime3

    precrime3 Regular Member

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    Update:

    Due to corona I can't practice badminton. Sorry for keeping you guys in the dark. Hope you guys are staying healthy and safe. Will update when i get back to training.

    Much love,

    precrime
     
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  19. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    I've been keeping track of your progress - one thing to really do whilst you can't get on court is practise that overhead racquet preparation. I've been working on getting the wrist/hand/elbow/forearm behind my head myself, and in the past week, my strokes have become more compact, faster/harder, and more angled...but my shoulder is taking a beating as it's not used to having to use the full range of motion! Having to finish sessions a little earlier than usual to allow time for the muscle strength to build.

    A good drill I have done many, many times, is to kneel side on and just focus on the racquet head, wrist, forearm, elbow, shoulder, and a tiny bit of the torso (just enough to make sure I am starting side-on, then moving more square at the end of the stroke. Simply do dry swings at 0.1x, 0.5x speed, normal speed, and even freeze yourself at different points.

    I do this without a mirror, but a mirror can be useful for instant feedback/correction. I do however just stick my phone camera on for the duration of the session and then quickly skim review it every 5 mins then delete the videos.

    I normally do this in my living room. The kneeling is quite a bit easier because of the carpet, but you can always get a mat if you have laminate/hard flooring!

    Not being able to get on court doesn't mean a total end to badminton training!
     
    #139 DarkHiatus, Mar 18, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
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  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Missed this earlier.

    Yeah. Exactly.

    Nice training idea by @DarkHiatus ..

    Fold a towel and put it under the knees if the floor is too hard.

    Definitely, put the forearm vertical.

    Racquet shaft vertical in preparation is good training and after a few thousand practice strokes or more, a player will start to settle into their own slightly different variations. I have seen a couple of players have the shaft almost horizontal and that definitely looks weird
     

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